Quinn-essential
-
Ocon the thing that helped Eli last year
1.Competent coaching leadership and planning
2.A GREAT defense
3.Recievers who actually caught the ball consistently
4.A running game
out of those 4 factors which of those do we as a team exhibit? NONE that is why I have been adamant in my position.
Ocon you are a physician, if a surgical team does not have enough Rn's, but has a surgeon, no competent management, temp surgical assistants, a anasthesiologist who gets the mix right half of the time how well do you think that team for surgery is going to do over say 16 surgeries? Are you going to start with micro criticisms of everything the surgeon is doing? Thats exactly what fans are doing right now.
They want to blame the surgeon currently operating and replace him hoping for different results. How effective would that be for the hospital?
-
shep you know pretty much how I operate from the political board. I am not stretching I am looking at the team and organization not just the qb.
If you were to take these two back to back games and look at the results that extremely mirror each other and then look at the variables of what has changed, take into other factors such as relative defensive strength and other role players it is pretty easy to see.
All of those micro criticisms of DA that are constant are suddenly not in play now even though the results are the same it bS. Its the high draft pick qb syndrome that all franchise fans have to a degree. The team itself is flawed and the qb was NOT the factor holding it back offensively or as a team.
Factually DA had less and played against a superior defense versus what brady had in more support and a weaker defense yet the results of the TEAM were virtually the same in the manner and timing of the collapse and the offesive lead that was built. DA has had great games against weak defenses and when that happens all of you go well that high rating and tds was because of circuc catches and a weak defense not because he was any good, it was the cockpit not da, suddenly its all Quinn and the high throws and low throws and incompletes that all qbs have dont matter even though they did with Da. Hypocrites.
-
Again Sev, if DA did what Quinn did on Thursday (no sacks, no INTs, no should of been an INT, no 3 and outs when the team was first down in the 4th quarter, no false starts, no offensive confusion, no badly burned TOs, consistantly moving the chains, and no WTF throws), then you wouldn't see people on here (maybe 1 or 2 guys) all over DA. Did you read this board after the NYG game?
DA was getting blasted for his bad play. Plain and simple. Completing 50% of passes every week is worthy of being blasted. And last week people were blasting the D and the play calling, just as they are this week. Maybe if you posted in those threads instead of only chiming in on the threads about the QB......
As to Quinn and the high and low throws, it's his first start. You're trying to compare reactions of a guy on his first start vs. a guy on his 20th+ start. And other than the throw at Wrights feet on the last drive (which why the hell CLE was throwing on 2nd and 1 or 3rd and 1, with 2 TOs left is beyond me), he didn't have high or low throws than made you go WTF.
-
Read Shep's post on his starts. Now I know why you normally don't look up stats.
Also comparing last week to this, Quinn didn't throw a pick on the last drive to win the game. DA did.
Finally, DA didn't play poorly against the Ravens. I know I never indicated that he did. The team has issues, we all get that. However, based off one game (and one game only) Quinn looks promising. What we KNOW about DA is that after 20 starts he remains an erratic player who struggles to complete passes, is wildly inaccurate in the intermediate to short game, and is a liability when forced to move in/out of the pocket.
So, as I said, let it go. Quinn's going to keep playing. If he continues to look like a guy who can lead the offense and post decent stats then he's an upgrade. Pretty simple really.
-
\ said:
Sev, that wasn't Anderson's first start. Wasn't even his second. Or third.He started three games in 2006 after coming off the bench in the KC game. His first start was a 27-7 loss to the Steelers. His passer rating was 83. He was so-so. His second and third starts got progressively worse. Passer rating in his third start was 12.
Jesus!!!! Is Sev, Lum and wants to forget that DA started games in 2006? DA had a good first start in 2007 against a bad Cincy D (if it is good for the goose, it's good for the gander). What did he do against a bad OAK team the following week? A 57 QBR, completed less than half his passes, threw a pick, got sacked once for a loss of 24, and fumbled.
-
\ said:
Read Shep's post on his starts. Now I know why you normally don't look up stats.
Also comparing last week to this, Quinn didn't throw a pick on the last drive to win the game. DA did.
Finally, DA didn't play poorly against the Ravens. I know I never indicated that he did. The team has issues, we all get that. However, based off one game (and one game only) Quinn looks promising. What we KNOW about DA is that after 20 starts he remains an erratic player who struggles to complete passes, is wildly inaccurate in the intermediate to short game, and is a liability when forced to move in/out of the pocket.
So, as I said, let it go. Quinn's going to keep playing. If he continues to look like a guy who can lead the offense and post decent stats then he's an upgrade. Pretty simple really.
We also know that DA's scouting report out of HS and college is the same scouting report on him today:
"His decision-making is suspect." "He has a tendency to be very deliberate with his delivery." "Gets an unusual number of passes batted down at the line for a guy his size." "Tends to try to 'rocket arm balls' into tight spaces." "Makes ill-advised throws." "Has difficulty making accurate throws in close quarters." "Over-powers balls on short throws." "Lacks mobility." "Can get flustered." "Tends to sail intermediate throws."
And those didn't even point out the fact that his arm amps up when the pressure sets in.
-
Please Masters I have been in on these thread since the beginning of last year. I have been constantly consistent. I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
Quinn had a good start that led to a loss because it was not the QB that was the problem that all you suffering from brady mania seem to think. The proof is in the results that mirrored back to back games EXACTLY. It was NOT DA, in fact he produced more with less against much better.
You want to be "happy" with the loss because of so called promise and better comp stats and qb rating? ELI still has his super bowl ring regardless of his qb rating last year. Why did the jets trade away 68.8 comp rating 89.6 qb rated chad pennington to get gunslinging td throwing Favre who also throws a lot of ints?... Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
-
I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
No Sev, you don't. You just always tell us you do.
Your most recent attempt at giving us "facts" was presenting DA's breakout game against Cincy as his "first start".
Are you going to address that one?
-
\ said:
Derek Anderson FIRST START 20 for 33 60.6 comp rating 328 yards 5tds 1 int 121.00 passer rating Leading to a team WIN.That was his first start Greythan go look it up at NFL.com
quinn had a great STARTING debut? it was but Anderson's was Better.
You went to all the effort to use the drop downs to get to his 2007 stats and didn't bother to select 2006? Which included his 4INT game in career start #3 (remind you of another game he started in 2007 when CLE needed a win against that same team you listed for his 1st career start?).
http://www.nfl.com/players/derekanderso ... eason=2006
-
Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
This was covered already.
Eli's run of 5(?) games is what made the Super Bowl possible. His stats during that run? QB rating of 105. 10 TD's and 2 INT's. (Thanks Ocon)
What, exactly, gives you any sense that DA would somehow be able to put a five game stretch together like that? He never has. Not even close. We're three years into watching DA. If Quinn plays anything like how he did this first week, the DA experiment is over. I'll go one further, if Quinn pans out to be as bad or worse....
... we're in the market for a QB.
-
\ said:
Please Masters I have been in on these thread since the beginning of last year. I have been constantly consistent. I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.You mean those that are wrong - see you listing for DA's first career start. So where are you on the threads blasting Romeo, BMac, the D as a whole, on Lewis and his comments, etc.?
Quinn had a good start that led to a loss because it was not the QB that was the problem that all you suffering from brady mania seem to think. The proof is in the results that mirrored back to back games EXACTLY. It was NOT DA, in fact he produced more with less against much better.
Pa-lease! So Brady had 3 and outs in the 4th when Den was coming or first took the lead? Brady had should of been picks? The games didn't mirror each other at all, other than the loss. The out rage for the loss does mirror each other, w/ the exception that the QB play can't take blame (though Brady took it, unlike DA). QB play has been an issue. Isn't it the only or biggest issue for CLE? No. But it was one issue, and one that had a chance to be resolved. You fight the fires you can, no matter what business or sport. More w/ less? Because Stallworth was playing (yet Eric wasn't)? So the lack of Stallworth explains away 5 of 8 starts of completing less than 60% of passes (oh, and those drops, even if you give him those don't bring that average up to NFL quality). Four of the 8 being at 51% or less.
You want to be "happy" with the loss because of so called promise and better comp stats and qb rating? ELI still has his super bowl ring regardless of his qb rating last year. Why did the jets trade away 68.8 comp rating 89.6 qb rated chad pennington to get gunslinging td throwing Favre who also throws a lot of ints?... Eli manning 56.1 comp rating 73.9 qb rating... winner in a super bowl how does that fly in the face of the almight comp rating and qb rating?
Who said I was happy with a loss? Saying that blows your first statement out of the water. Read the board, other than the QB related threads. Big Ben put up crap in his SB too. But he is a leader and made plays when his team needed them, just like Eli. This is what you guys who defend DA seem not to grasp. It's not just the bad play, but bad play when an NFL QB must step up. And if you wouldn't take Favre over all but 3 NFL QB's in the league, your a fool.
-
\ said:
I back up my opinion with stats and figures instead of conjecture.
No Sev, you don't. You just always tell us you do.
Your most recent attempt at giving us "facts" was presenting DA's breakout game against Cincy as his "first start".
Are you going to address that one?
No he won't. Just like Lum won't address his "facts" that aren't facts at all either.
-
Anyone arguing for DA is simply bias or an idiot. Even if Quinn had not played well on Thursday, it is (and has been) apparent that DA does possess what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL. The Quinn bashers need to check themselves. By not liking an indivudual just because he went to a college that you did not like, because he's a pretty boy, because your girlfriend thinks he's hot, etc....is insane. The kid has done nothing his whole football career but display leadership and class. These people know who they are. I could not care less for any bullshit reasons that may be thrown back at this post. You can keep lying to yourself, but I do not have the time to listen to it. Browns' fans should be cautiously optimistic by what we saw from Quinn and should embrace him as our future QB...not squabbling about DA. He had ample chances to prove he was the man...he proved otherwise.
-
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.
I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
-
\ said:
...if a surgical team does not have enough Rn's, but has a surgeon, no competent management, temp surgical assistants, a anasthesiologist who gets the mix right half of the time how well do you think that team for surgery is going to do over say 16 surgeries? Are you going to start with micro criticisms of everything the surgeon is doing? Thats exactly what fans are doing right now.They want to blame the surgeon currently operating and replace him hoping for different results. How effective would that be for the hospital?
A great surgeon can do surgery with sub-average support. He makes everyone around him better. He can do it with fewer or poor nurses and a clueless anesthesiologist, because he knows their job too, comands the operating room, and has the attitude that nothing is going to go wrong on his watch. This "its my operating room and things WILL go right" is taught in surgical residencies. You are taught to exude confidence, be competent, and the operations will go better.
If he's the worst surgeon in the hospital (like DA is, ranked 31st in the NFL), the chances of the surgery going well are reduced. He needs amazing support staff to succeed. The talk in the break room about how bad the surgeon performs is relentless, because everyone knows he's the worst player on the surgical team. And yes, if bad enough, they will "chant" by filing complaints about the surgeon, which can lead to diciplinary action. I've seen it happen.
So, with DA being the lowest ranked player on the offense, the break room is buzzing and complaints are being filed, so to speak.
I see that you're bummed with the Brady chants, and I'm one of those chanters. When the Browns drafted him in such dramatic fashion in '07, I thought things couldn't get better. Damn near went running around the house. My brother, father, and grandfather all went to ND. I grew up a Browns fan and an ND fan. A dream come true and it'll probably be the most exciting Browns draft I'll ever see. The #1 ranked tackle and the QB who grew up 30 minutes from my house wearing Bernie Kosar for Halloween, went to ND, and drafted by the Browns. We were finally making the right move after stumbling back into the NFL (I, like most, didn't sleep well for days when Modell moved the Browns. My wife started shooting the "really, you're still upset" look). THEN, Quinn sits for what seems like forever. So, I think they excitement for BQ based on this one game is part pent up emotion, from many angles, from many Browns fans.
-
\ said:
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
He was named the starter for those games. What, GS now don't count unless it isn't your job to lose....lmfao.
Um, as JADBF pointed out previously to you, 7 of the points in the BALT game were supplied by Cribbs on KO returned for a TD.
You keep looking and reading and posting on this board like a person who is only concerned about the QB positon. Like checkers? That's why I just pointed out here and in other threads that DA was one of many issues on this team (and smaller in comparison).
Not to mention those here that were apparently watching CLE before last year (how the F*@K can a fan not remember DA playing in 2006?). -
good god the end of 2006 DA was named the starter? fine if you see it that way Its pretty widely accepted that Cincinnati was DA official debut as our formal starter and his career. Fine he played in 2006 i did not remember those games that he was named our starter.
I know I am just like Lum in the fact that I am defending the qb position from micro criticism.
You're a joke Sev. I've tried like hell to give you a long leash but you can never simply man up and admit you're wrong.
You attacked my comparison of Quinn's debut to Anderson's (i.e., his first "start") and when faced with the facts the best bullshit you've got is "Its pretty widely accepted"? No, it wasn't at all you moron. Going into the Cincy game last year it was "pretty widely accepted" that DA was only keeping the seat warm for Quinn. There was no sense that the team had been handed over to DA.
Pathetic. You need to remember the old addage: Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Funny NONE of you are talking about the baltimore to Denver comparisons in TEAM breakdowns and relative strengths. I know I am widely accepted as an idiot who bases my observations on just my opinion. You can keep looking at this supposably simple game like checkers all you want. Some people that is all they are capable of.
This following your complete inability to own up to an error and you are accusing the mass of us posting contrary to you as being incapable?
Yup. It is "funny".
Post less. Read more. You'll be happier.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login