Bernie Kosar says Brady Quinn could use a fresh start
-
Bernie Kosar says Brady Quinn could use a fresh start
Cleveland Browns morning news roundup
By Starting Blocks
October 20, 2009, 6:10AM
Brady QuinnFormer Cleveland Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar says that Brady Quinn is probably better off he gets a new start elsewhere.
Kosar, now a consultant with the Browns, said on WKNR yesterday:
“Multiple systems and multiple coaches haven’t worked out in Cleveland. Maybe a fresh start will help him out.”
The NFL trade deadline is today.
A story in CantonRep.com speculates that several teams could use a quarterback like Quinn. Those teams include Miami, Seattle, Tennessee, Buffalo, Washington, Carolina, Oakland, Tampa Bay and St. Louis.
Kosar hesitated when asked if Quinn would be traded.
"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
“If something’s out there …”
Progress: QB Derek Anderson has only completed 11 passes in his last two games, but coach Eric Mangini made it clear that Anderson will remain No. 1 against the Green Bay Packers on Sunday.
The Browns are 31st in the league in offense and 30th in points scored. They have scored four offensive touchdowns in 72 possessions this season, but Mangini sees progress.
In The News-Herald:
"There have been times where we've moved the ball really effectively," Mangini said. "The drive we had at the beginning of the second half is indicative of things we can do.
"There were some positive things that I've seen throughout the course of Derek working at quarterback that I think will get better."
WildDawg offense: The Browns' WildDawg offense wasn't wildly successful against the Pittsburgh Steelers, but Steelers' defensive end Brett Keisel was impressed with Josh Cribbs.
In CantonRep.com:
“He just made great plays,” Keisel said. “We knew they were gonna do WildDawg. We worked on it during the week.
“But Cribbs is Cribbs. He makes big plays. He was the only reason they were in the game, I think. He’s a helluva player.”
So what does coach Eric Mangini do now? Keep the offense and run more plays with Cribbs?
Quarterback Derek Anderson doesn't have a problem with the formation.
“It’s different, but I think it helps us,” Anderson said. “It gives us ... I don’t know what we got yardage-wise on it ... but we did some good things with it.
-
Eric Mangini reaffirms support for Browns QB Derek Anderson, regardless of statistics
By Mary Kay Cabot
October 19, 2009, 9:07PM
Whenever the subject of Quinn replacing Derek Anderson is even broached, coach Eric Mangini crushes it like a grape.
Following Sunday's 27-14 loss to the Steelers, Mangini said, "I'm not looking to make a move, no."
So not only will Quinn be stuck in Cleveland despite the fact he'd most likely welcome a trade, he'll be on the bench for the foreseeable future.
Hey, if you can't get playing time behind a starter who's tumbled to last in the NFL with a 41.7 rating -- even behind the struggling JaMarcus Russell (51.0) -- then you might want to rent instead of buy your next dwelling in town.
Mangini's commitment to Anderson, coupled with some strong statements by Sports Illustrated's Peter King over the weekend, all point to the probable end of Quinn in Cleveland in the off-season if not by Tuesday.
During halftime of the Notre Dame-USC game on Saturday, King stated in no uncertain terms that Quinn will not be back with the Browns next season.
"Whether he goes or not [by Tuesday's trading deadline], he will not be on the Browns in 2010," said King, who interviewed Mangini and General Manager George Kokinis last week. "I believe they've had enough of Brady Quinn."
It's not known if Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, has asked for a trade, but it wouldn't be surprising if the subject came up during the Oct. 7 trade of Condon client Braylon Edwards to the Jets. Still, the Browns have no incentive for doing so unless a team makes an offer they can't refuse. If they wait until after the bye week to play him, they would avoid triggering $11 million in escalators -- and why do so if they don't know if he's their quarterback of the future?
Besides, Mangini is convinced that Anderson is the better choice right now, despite the horrible statistics.
"There have been times where we've moved the ball really effectively, and I think the drive that we had at the beginning of the second half [in Pittsburgh] is indicative of things that we can do," he said. "We have to do a much better job of not stopping ourselves whether it be with the dropped balls or some throws that are a little bit off or it could be tightening up the protection or tightening up the routes -- all those things -- I think we can get better at that.
"There were some positive things that I've seen throughout the course of Derek working at quarterback that I think will get better."
Thanks to performances by both quarterbacks, the Browns have scored only four offensive touchdowns in 72 possessions. They are:
• 31st in total offense (239.8 avg.);
• 31st in passing yards (136.2);
• 30th in first downs (13.6);
• 29th in 3rd down efficiency (27.9 percent), and
• 30th in points per game (11.5).
In addition to his dead-last rating, Anderson is last in the NFL in third-down passing at 31.7 percent. He's completed only 26.8 percent (11 of 41) of his attempts over the last two games.
But Mangini attributes that to up to 16 drops over the past two games. What's more, Anderson took the Bengals to overtime in his first start of the season, beat the Bills (albeit 6-3), and had the Browns within three points of the Steelers in the third quarter of Sunday's game.
Going 4-for-4 for 61 yards on the opening drive of the second half, Anderson threw a 1-yard TD pass to Lawrence Vickers that pulled the Browns to within 17-14. Included was a beautiful 43-yard strike to Mohamed Massaquoi. If not for a questionable call on Pittsburgh's attempt at a fourth and 1 sneak at the end of the first half, the game would've been tied at that point.
To be that close in the third quarter in Pittsburgh? Mangini will take it. The feeling is that if the drops can be minimized, the offense will improve dramatically.
"There's no excuse for it," Anderson said after the game. "We're going to continue to keep working. I've got to get better. I've got to give them better chances to catch it, be more precise on my throws. That's all we can do. There's no excuse for it, there's no reason behind it. They're good receivers, they're good players."
Mangini attributed some of rookie Mohamed Massaquoi's six drops in two weeks to "looking to run before he actually got the ball and that's something that you can't do."
Massaquoi acknowledged the young receivers have to grow up fast.
"Definitely," he said. "We definitely have to continue to grow and mature and try to do our part to make sure we can contribute and help string together some wins."
He said there's hope for the passing game because "it's clicked at certain points. That means it can click throughout the whole game and click for the rest of the season. So that part's going to come. Hopefully it comes sooner than later."
-
The real Cleveland Browns QB controversy: Who wins when there's no one to throw to, anyway?
By Bill Livingston
October 19, 2009, 7:00PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Bernie Kosar's return to good graces with the Browns coincides with circumstances on the playing field eerily similar to those that diminished his play at quarterback.
"He says I'm not productive," Kosar complained of Bill Belichick years ago. "But he got rid of the players I was productive with."
He was referring to the purge of his favorite receivers -- Webster Slaughter, Brian Brennan and Reggie Langhorne.
Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn might think the same thing. The Browns have not been able to develop a quarterback who was a consistent winner since Kosar. To some extent, the same mistakes have been repeated. You have to give it to them -- they are persistent in error.
Tracy Boulian/The Plain DealerKellen Winslow might have been a security blanket that helped make Brady Quinn successful this season. But Winslow's departure from the team eliminated that option in Quinn's short-lived stretch as Browns starting quarterback.
Touchdowns have been scarce this season. No wide receiver has scored one from scrimmage. In part, this is because Braylon Edwards was traded after five or six disruptive incidents too many. They got bits and pieces in return, which is what happens when trades are made at the time a player is at his lowest possible value.
The starting quarterback when Edwards was exiled was Anderson, who made the Pro Bowl in 2007 because Edwards caught 16 of his 29 touchdown passes. Edwards was his favorite target.
It can be argued that Edwards blew up Anderson's 2008 season with his bad hands. The flip side is that Edwards was at least providing opportunities for positive plays and creating opportunities for teammates by commanding double coverage.
The Anderson-Edwards reunion tour lasted exactly one game this season. Edwards didn't have a catch and dropped a couple against the Bengals, but Mohamed Massaquoi had a big game because he did not have to be the No. 1 receiver. Now, the opposition's best cornerbacks have either stifled him or he has dropped too many balls when he does get open. In that regard, Edwards' legacy lives on.
Before Anderson, Quinn started for 10 quarters of Sominex football. If the Browns were going to run an offense featuring the pass as a glorified handoff, they never should have traded tight end Kellen Winslow. They got handbags and glad rags in return for him, too. Winslow was Quinn's favorite target.
Since the Browns returned in 1999, they have repeatedly hit the nail squarely on the thumb with quarterbacks.
Tim Couch was thrown to the wolves too soon. The expansion line in front of him made you wish turnstiles could have been legally placed in front of pass rushers. They would have been more of an obstruction.
Kelly Holcomb took over for Couch. In the middle of the next season, Butch Davis got rid of the team's most productive wide receiver, Kevin Johnson.
Jeff Garcia came in with a West Coast offense background. Offensive coordinator Terry Robiskie had no familiarity with the West Coast offense.
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring in spite of himself in Baltimore, then proved he couldn't play or mentor here.
The next season, Charlie Frye had no veteran teammate at all to play the confidant's role Gary Danielson played so well with Kosar.
Coach Eric Mangini said Monday that his relationship with Kosar is informal. He said it is interesting to see things from a quarterback's perspective. He said it was even more interesting to see it from the perspective of what defensive maneuvers bother quarterbacks.
-
"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
-
"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
-
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
-
"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
These comments from Bernie must be to encourage other teams to throw in a bid for BQ. It would seem to indicate there has been little to no interest thus far. Another 1st round bust, just fcuking unbelievable.
-
Ive concluded this organization and team is going to suck for a long time even if lerner sold the team...i have pretty much lost interest in anything this club does because its a minor league outfit with a queer for an owner...rebuilding isnt going to be enough to pull this club outta the ghetto...
-
I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
-
There it is in black and white.
Sorry Quinn "backers"
-
-
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
-
I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
Thanks..I saw that on your other thread...seems like new info...i had never seen that part..always just in the first 3 years.
Good find
-
even in light of that new (at least to me) info, that doesn't mean its not about money. he takes enough snaps for this year, he gets paid. he wont be here next year, so i dont think that much of the consideration. he's not worth 11 million, so just because he has the option to take the escalator for 2 consecutive years lends no credence to benching him being solely a function of play.
his play didn't match the money, which is more likely.
-
I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
There it is in black and white.
Sorry Quinn "backers"
From Pluto's Monday column:
Terry Pluto said:
Getting it right: In my Sunday notes, I was wrong about the incentives in Brady Quinn's contract. Yes, he will receive $11 million if he takes 70 percent of the snaps this season. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. -
Thanks...I knew I had never seen that before so it came as a complete change-up.
-
-
Bernie knows dick.. he is still suffering from post concussion syndrome from that fastball I beaned him with when I was 11 in Boardman little league.. Not to mention all the hit's babette gave him. I loved bernie as a brown.. I have serious doubts about this consulting thing.
It is probably no different than the roles that Jim Brown and Paul Warfield play, both of whom are also "consultants" for the Browns. The role of these guys is to try to evaluate people who can be the next Jim Brown, Paul Warfield, and Bernie Kosar for this team. JB and PW have been on their roles for several years, they have yet to find anyone as good as themselves....can Bernie do any better?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login