@jcam222 said:

At this point of the year a leader and competitor would have answered that questions with yes plain and simple. He threw in that part about the next two weeks because he quickly realized just how weak his answer sounded. If he is not confident and ready now perhaps he should have spent more of his extra curricular time studying the playbook and throwing passes.

As far as your watching Colt and JFF who cares? You watched them tear it up in college. Do we really need to make you a list of the countless other guys that did that only to fail miserably in the NFL?

I hope it all works out because although I am not a Manziel fan I am a Browns fan so I do want him to succeed.

How about make a list of the guys who didn't tear it up in college and were successful in the NFL. I'll start - Tom Brady and Kurt Warner....

Pretty short list. What do you want to bet the list of guys who were successful in college and then successful in the NFL is longer than the list of guys who had a mediocre college career and then sat on the bench for five years in the NFL and then went on to have successful NFL careers?

Anyways, I just hate that so many of you guys are actively rooting against Johnny. I don't really have anything against Hoyer, just hate coming on here and reading all of you actively rooting for Hoyer to beat out Johnny. It is obvious many of you just do not like him, and I hate that. It's just like you taking that quote by Johnny and misconstruing it like you have. To say Johnny isn't a competitor is just about the most ridiculous thing you could say about the kid. I could show you several great examples that contradict that, but I guess it's not in the NFL, so it doesn't count or something.

This is the play when I realized Johnny was just an old fashioned "football player", and it is still my favorite Johnny play of all-time:

Watch that clip and tell me Johnny isn't a competitor. BTW, that play was whistled dead, so most of the team sat around watching it, but Johnny, who was split out wide b/c it was a "trick" play, still chased it down and made the tackle because he wasn't going to take a chance that it was a live ball.

@tour2ma said:

It's called garbage time and I concur... give any to JM. ;)Actually I'd go farther. I expect to see some JM packages in most games. More complex than the once popular WildDawg (or dog), but a small package. First, you really should not limit yourself to watching HS and College games. The NFL is truly a different game.Second, comparing Colt's injury to JM's is laughable on its face. Colt suffered nerve damage and did not have feeling/ strength in his throwing arm/ hand. Nerve damage ends careers. I'd love to see your reference on JM's injury being a separation. Separations to throwing shoulders end seasons. I've no doubt his shoulder was hurt and kudos to him for playing through the hurt, but let's keep it real... It's not close now... except in your mind. Even JM knows it is not...Manziel: 'I'm not ready for Pittsburgh'http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/08/16/manziel-im-not-ready-for-pittsburgh/14162577/"That's not saying I'm not ready or I won't be ready. I don't want that taken out of context. It's just right now in my second preseason game, I'm not ready to go out and start week one because there's a lot of time left until that point."Lot of time? Now until Tuesday morning is "a lot of time"? Yup... seemed obvious...

Again, watched colt for more years than you have, and he's nowhere near Johnny. Not athletically and not as a competitor. Everyone knows he could've finished that game, but his dad told him not to.

And I think you are doing exactly what Johnny said not to do, taking his words out of context. Is he ready to start against Pittsburgh today? No. Would he be ready with two weeks of prep as the starter? Yes.

@comeonman said:

Dude, you're wasting your time and the argument has gone on and on and on. Nothing new is being said about either QB. Hoyer looked good for the short time he has started. Manziel was a beast in college and I think he will be very exciting to watch at the pro level. I also believe he is the future at QB, not Hoyer. With that being said, we can wait a little longer to see how it plays out, or we can continue to argue about it until we are blue in the face.

Fair enough.

@hoorta said:

You're hopelessly blinded by Manziel mania. And You're bordering on being a troll.

Because I think Johnny can win two regular season games?

That's all Hoyer has accomplished in his entire time in the NFL. That is what everyone keeps pointing to when I ask what Hoyer has done that Manziel has not. Is it not?

@tour2ma said:

I'm sure compared to your understanding of the game JM's understanding must take on mythic proportions.

Sick burn, man.

@hoorta said:

Yup, the Nation will be tuning in to see Manziel play.

All you can bring up is how great Manziel was in COLLEGE, still haven't figured out we're not impressed? Archie Griffin- TWO Heismans, It's like talking to a wall. Here's Hoyer's resume. Browns won all three games he started in, had nice 4th quarter drive to win on the road against the Vikings. Manziel's regular season resume? Well it doesn't exist.

However- the Manzealots already have him in the HOF, based on his college performance.

Yeah, and you can't name one time Hoyer was great, EVER. Not in college, not in pros, not EVER. Let Johnny start three games and he will pass anything Hoyer has ever accomplished in his six years in the NFL.

And it's funny that you are crediting Hoyer with a win when he blew out his ACL so early in that third game. That's how pathetic his resume is, you have to basically make crap up for him to make it sound better.

@miktoxic said:

so we on this board tend to stick up for browns players. i'm sure if some troll came on here bashing manziel like you guys do hoyer there'd be plenty of us talking to them the same way we do you.

You are so full of shit. I've seen you call him a midget on another thread, and the post right under yours calls him "little guy" and that same poster usually calls him "mini-me." Then another poster on this thread calls him "Johnny Goofball." Why aren't you calling these guys out like you do anybody that says anything about Hoyer?

@tour2ma said:

Not to mention running from "phantom pressure" a couple times...

I do not think folks appreciate the impact of missing reads and open progressions. Even a positive play will be downgraded. No better example I can think of than the 4th and 1 roll out. The play was designed to make the defender chose between defending the QB run and the pass to the FB. The defender chose to defend the run and yet the QB still ran. The yard was gained, but against the design of the play.

You mean the exact same play Hoyer ran and threw to the fb and the fb dropped?

Yeah, watch Johnny in context. On first and ten, he throws that ball. When it's third or fourth down and he knows he damn well better make sure he gets the first, he will keep it every time. Again, this is because Johnny understands the game better than any player I've ever seen at his age.

@hoorta said:

Excuses, if-if-if. he isn't, and he wasn't. Even if he was 6'3, I doubt he'd get ranked ahead of Elway or Luck as "can't miss". His off filed bullshit would have dragged him down- just like it did Marino.

Excuses? That is all you guys do for Hoyer!

Nobody has to make excuses for Johnny. Johnny was the first freshman in history to win the heisman. He owns the three highest yards per game in the history of the SEC. He was drafted in the first round of the draft. Now, let's hear your excuses for why Hoyer's resume doesn't stack up at all.

@hoorta said:

I've lived through more the Browns suck swamp water seasons than I care to remember- but usually I've had hope before the real bullets start flying in September.

OK, there was- and probably still is "hate". and I admit being guilty of it. "Hate" of Manziel the off-field doofus pre training comp. Count Pettine, Farmer, and Haslem in that camp.

There is not one person who bleeds brown & orange that "hates" Manziel the football player. Got it?

What us oldsters "hate" is guys coming in and making pronouncements Manziel could beat out the likes of Kurt Warner or Tony Romo before he's ever played in a regular season NFL game. Plus the bashing and denigration of Bryan Hoyer- no chance, nope, none in the world Hoyer could repeat the Kurt Warner story- us folks that have lived in Cleveland say "chance" and that's all we're asking for. FWIW, I made a bet today at my favorite restaurant with the assistant manager (Colts fan) for a free meal that Hoyer is going to start the first three games- and I have no doubts I'm going to collect.

What you have to understand- Cleveland has one of the most knowledgeable fan bases in the NFL- and if JFF comes in and starts stinking up the place- he's going to hear it- real fast. And what I REALLY don't want to see is the Man-zealots bashing Hoyer over every incomplete pass- because he's not the"Chosen One". Get over it- Cleveland had the "Chosen One" Le Bron James- that's the yardstick of "can't miss". JFF doesn't measure up- at least not yet.

Make that twice in a lifetime for me regarding JF's skill set- I'm old enough to have seen Fran Tarkenton play.

Ya see us old curmudgeons have been around long enough to see plenty of "can't miss" prospects-miss. Doubly so for the Browns. It's been pointed out numerous times here before- but it bears repeating- if Manziel was "can't miss" he'd have been drafted #1 overall. So take a chill pill, and watch the season unfold.

the only reason he wasn't drafted #1 was because he is 5'11". If he was 6'3" he'd be considered the greatest qb prospect to ever grace the NFL draft. As it is, he is the shortest qb drafted in the first round in over 60 years. Maybe ask yourself what it was about Johnny that had him go at 22, whereas guys like Drew Brees and Russel Wilson weren't first round picks?

Zombo said:

Johnny is a a college football legend.

I had him rated the best QB in the draft; ahead of Bortles and Bridgewater ... And I will stand by that.

But you have to understand a couple things:

1. He's 5'11, throws from 3/4 (unlike equally small Bree's and Wilson who throw over top) and a big part of his game is taking off and running, and NFL defenders are lethal ... Take the best defender of an SEC team, give him NFL experience, and then times him by 11.

2. He was drafted 22. So 21 times a team said " um ... Yeah ... No thanks." And Browns fans in particular have swallowed bitter late first round pills.

So, don't just be patient with JFF ... Be patient with Browns fans.

This is the NFL ... Where college legends meet their mortality.

Just let it play out. And don't be a homo.

Z

come on, you mention Brees and Wilson who were both drafted significantly behind Johnny. Instead of focusing on why Johnny was drafted 22, maybe you should ask yourself why Johnny is the shortest qb drafted in the first round in over 60 years.

@miktoxic said:

you directed this post at me.

ok buttbongo show me anywhere in any post on this board where i said any of that. i dare you. i'll bet you right now you won't find it cuz it didn't happen, so you and all your other fuckin friends who like putting words in people's mouths need to stop your shit. cuz you look like a fool.

fool.

@gumboner76 said:

Just for the record. Fridays practice with the ones.

Manziel 2-6 no points

Hoyer. 6-6 2 td's.

I think you need to rematch the lions game. Yes manziel had a higher percentage. He only threw check downs. One pass was a 12 yd but every other pass was a check down. Hoyer had 3 drops over 20 yards. And still had more passing yards. Hoyer led two drives and had 6 points. (Won't bring up the drop by Gordon that should have been a Td). Manziel drove for 3 points. Manziel was also playing against guys who are probably not gonna see the field much if they even make the team. Hoyer was playing against the number ones. The only reason manziel is getting one reps is to keep the fans oohing like school girls to make money and keep Cleveland relevant.

Also Hoyer is named starter. If manziel is that awesome why isn't he starting?

I may not be able to bring up that many Cinderella stories but I can sure name all the first round draft picks that were a bust. 3 for Cleveland alone in the last 15 years.

Maybe I'm wrong and manziel is the savior. I don't care. All I want is some good f'n football for once in Cleveland.

I saw Hoyer miss two passes high and skip another one off the turf. I saw Johnny throw one bad ball. Johnny is a better passer than Hoyer. Any statistical category you want to compare Johnny is better.

Maybe he's not dominating him three weeks into his rookie season, but project a little here. If it's this close now, how close will it be once Johnny is allowed to work with the ones as much as Hoyer and he gets comfortable playing at the NFL speed. Johnny will dominate Hoyer. There is nothing that Hoyer does better than Johnny. Doesn't throw a better ball, doesn't complete higher percentage of passes, doesn't run better. I guess he manages the huddle better, whatever that means, but it's not like Johnny can't do that, too. He's smarter than Hoyer is and will pass him in every mental category as he becomes more comfortable running this system.

@miktoxic said:

read this back to yourself in a mirror and then ask yourself: "why do people on the browns board call me a johnny football fag?"

btw. gumboner76, funniest username ever.

Hey look, you want to call everyone fag and shit like that, fine. I don't care. I've watched a LOT of football in my life, I'd hazard more than just about anybody on this board unless you've ever been involved in football professionally. I've watched a lot of current starting NFL qbs from high school and through college. If they played football in Texas, then chances are I've been watching them since they were Juniors in high school. Johnny is the best I've ever seen. He's better than Tannehill, he's better than RG3, better than Drew Brees, better than Sam Bradford, and he's damn sure better than Brian Hoyer. I follow Johnny because he is that much fun to watch and he is that amazing. I hope that you guys as fans get to experience it, but to be honest, the way some of you act I don't think you deserve the joy he can bring you watching him play football. He will play harder than anybody else on your team if he is given the chance. You don't have a player that wants to win more than he does. It's pretty awesome to watch. But you bitter guys that call him "mini-me" and shit like that makes me hope you trade him to a franchise with a fanbase that respects what he has already accomplished, which is more than pretty much anybody on your team at this point.

I see you compare him to somebody like Wheedon or Colt McCoy and it makes me laugh. Colt McCoy couldn't make it one quarter against Alabama without getting hurt and pulling himself out the game. Johnny separated his shoulder against Auburn and missed one series. Neither Colt nor Wheedon won a Heisman as a freshman. If you'd watched those guys play in college you'd know how much Johnny outclasses either one of those guys. You should compare Johnny to guys like Hershel Walker or Adrian Peterson, guys who came close to winning Heismen as freshman, but nobody does that because he's 5'11" instead of 6'3".

You say you watched highlights and all he did was throw it up to Mike Evans. Do yourself a favor and go on youtube and watch a game. There are literally hundreds of plays by Manziel that don't make the highlight reels because, basically, you cannot include all the amazing plays and keep the highlights short enough for anybody to reasonably watch. The guy is an amazing passer, and anybody that actually watches him play realizes that.

This coaching staff may go with Hoyer, and I know a lot of people want Hoyer to start and Johnny to come off the bench if he struggles. My problem with that is that you are basically giving up any chance to make the playoffs or make a run in the playoffs if you do that. I really believe you have a chance to make a deep run in the playoffs if you start Johnny game one and let him start getting experience. I know you'll think this is crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me if you won the Superbowl with him his first year, if the coaching staff invests in him and gives him a chance.

Hogan knows:

thread is pretty simple. what does Hoyer do better?

He has a better arm than Hoyer.

He is smarter than Hoyer.

He has a better completion percentage than Hoyer.

He is faster than Hoyer.

He is quicker than Hoyer.

He is more clutch than Hoyer.

He has won more big games than Hoyer.

He is more professional than Hoyer.

He is tougher than Hoyer.

He is, in every single way, a better qb than Hoyer. I only hope Pettine doesn't cave to local pressure to play Hoyer, because by every single objective measure out there, Johnny has outperformed the "veteran." I'm sure some of you think Hoyer looks so much prettier throwing the check-down to his back in the flat, but to an offensive coordinator and a quarterback coach, Hoyer has been outclassed from the word "go" in this competition. I only hope Pettine gives those coaches their wish in all of this.

@hoorta said:

And guys who have been following the Browns for 50+ years know how it's going to work out short term.

Yeah I watched Manzeil's A&M highlights tossing it up to Evans being triple covered, and Mike bailing his ass out. Hate to tell you that shit doesn't work in the NFL.

If you think that's Manziel's game then watch an actual game, because that couldn't be further from the truth. If anybody throws it up, it's Hoyer to Gordon. Manziel is twice the passer Hoyer is right now and the stats back that up. He consistently has a higher completion percentage than Hoyer.

@mikeyfromsandusky said:

Don't know about all that. I do know a running QB has never won the Super Bowl. Stauback and Young were not running quarterbacks by the time they won the Super Bowl. Hoyer gives the Browns the best chance to win right now.

except he's not a better passer than Manziel is right now.

@gumboner76 said:

Kurt Warner. Undrafted signed by Green Bay cut and ended up in St. Louis after a long stint in arena league and NFL Europe. Pro bowl Super Bowl champion.

Tony romo. Undrafted pro bowl. If Dallas would ever get a defense he may actually win a playoff game.

Point is sun shines on a dogs but once in a while and if Hoyer outplays manziel he deserves it.

Yeah, but Romo and Warner never went up against Manziel. And I'm not kidding when I say he'd beat out both of them in a fair competition, just like h's beating out Hoyer right now by every objective measure.