Bump.

I'm not sure if JFF has the arm for the AFCN. Here is a video with him in perfect passing conditions and he floats a lot of passes.

@tour2ma said:

I will say that Josh could do well running with the 20 WR screens Carr throws every game...

... and dangling from the elastic clipped to them and his sleeves...

Carr is the best screen and deep ball passer. He can throw the 0/9 like nobody's business.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000321203/article/browns-wr-josh-gordon-a-fan-of-fresno-state-qb-derek-carr

Gordon knows who he wants throwing him the ball.

@tour2ma said:

One of us clearly does not know the meaning of "thrown on a rope"... and it ain't me...

Sure it's not thrown in a direct straight line with no arc, but that's about as flat and fast as you can possibly throw a ball 60+ yards.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Yes. Most quarterbacks have thrown 60 yard passes while under zero pressure to wide open receivers.

How about this one? Looks like a ton of pressure and he doesn't even step into the throw. That thing is thrown on a rope from about the 17 and ends up near the 20 yard line. That's about 63 yards in the air.

Well it looks like Cleveland won't be able to draft Carr unless they trade up anyways. He's probably going top 3.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000296646/article/would-texans-take-fresno-states-derek-carr-with-no-1-pick

Say Hello to this guy.

I said arm talent not biggest arm. Either way, I think Carr has Mett beat there also. You ever see Mett do that?

@the-gipper said:

While Carr looked good there, that almost as much a Davonte Adams highlight reel as a Carr highlight reel.

One thing I noted about Carr in this is that I rarely saw him look away from his primary target.

Draft both. Problem solved.

Lombardi loves arm talent. This is the top arm in the Draft.

Browns need to draft Derek Carr with their first pick, then take Davante Adams with their second pick. Then go to a pure spread offense and pass 50+ times a game. They will be more exciting and be able to outscore opponents with the defense they already have in place.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.

Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.

In a previous thread you wrote, "Carr sporadically throws downfield. All his passes are short throws." Once you were proven to be a fraud who tried to pass your biased opinions as the truth you're now trying to spin the stats in your favor. I guarantee you the majority of Carr's long pass completions are gained through the air and not YAC. That can't be said for TB and Bortles.

Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.

The only reason why his percentage is lower is because the offense calls him to throw short passes.

Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.

Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.

So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.

I already posted their 20+ yard completions.

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

Once again, you had to change it to 25+ yards to try to skew it more towards your argument. The only reason why Peyton Manning has more yards and TD's than Colin Kaepernick is because the throws more.

When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.

Seriously a random 3 game sample?

In his last 2 games Carr completed 24 passes that traveled more than 10 yards through the air beyond the Line of Scrimmage.

How many has TB and Bortles completed? I'm sure you can combine both their totals and it would still be under Carr's 24.

From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.

Playing under center or a Pro Style offense is the most overrated BS there is as to whether or not a college QB will successfully transfer to the NFL. Matt Barkley (Pro Style) Nick Foles (Spread) Drew Brees (Spread)

Yeah you can only succeed in the NFL if you played in a pro style offense in College. By the way, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady takes most of their snaps from the shotgun.

Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.

I would say so. The kid can flat out play.

Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.

Carr's athleticism and arm talent is superior to TB and Bortles and that is a FACT. Yeah I'm sure every QB who played in a spread system has sucked at the NFL level. Brees sure sucks.

As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.

Yeah ok so I guess he was a finished product his sophomore year which was his first year starting or getting any playing time.

Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.

Carr completes more downfield throws with more velocity and more accuracy than anyone else in College Football. Fact.

Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.

At least Carr is destroying defenses in his mediocre conference and not putting up mediocre numbers like TB and Bortles in a mediocre conference. Yeah I guess the AAC is a Powerhouse Conference.

I'm not going to try and defend or argue about this any longer. I've already presented all the FACTs with STATS and videos not made up opinions. The Browns likely won't be able to draft Carr anyways unless they move up. Let's just agree to disagree. I just find if laughable that TCPO and bringbackbrownie don't think he is a first rounder.

@bringbackbrownie2 said:

Sorry but TCPO is right on this one. Anyone who has watched Fresno St. play would notice that Carr throws short quick passes on most of his throws. What bothers me is the number of times he will throw short of the chains on 3rd down and just hopes his WR will break a tackle and get the 1st down. This works a lot in college if you have talented WRs and play a weak schedule, but it won't work in the pros. I think we all know from watching DA and Weeden that a franchise QB isn't built on arm strength. I don't think Bortles has that great of an arm, but he has very good pocket presence so I see the comparison to BR as well. You don't need an amazing release if you can buy yourself extra time to throw.

All of that said, I like Bortles way more than Carr but still would love to draft Garoppolo from Eastern Illinois. The guy has great accuracy and gets rid of the ball quickly. I would love to draft him in the second round and roll with Hoyer to start the year. Our two first rounders we can use on WR, TE, or a LB that can play in pass coverage. We need OL too, but have multiple 3rd rounders to use on OG.

One again another post that is all opinion and no proof whatsoever. Carr completes way more down field throws than any QB in College and that is a FACT. The proof is in the STATS and videos. Most of Carr's short throws go for negative or minimal gain. That actually hurts his YPA and QBR. Either you don't watch any film or you're just blind. You're also making an excuse for an obvious flaw in Bortle's throwing mechanics.

Carr is way faster than Bortles and can escape the rush a lot better. Carr runs a 4.56 40 http://www.gobulldogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/derek_carr_460844.html and Bortles runs a 4.89 http://mocknfldraft.com/Blake%20Bortles.cfm

Carr has over 552 attempts and has only given up 8 sacks with 0 fumbles. Bortles has given up 20 sacks with only 316 attempts with multiple fumbles. Carr is more accurate, 70% to 68% with more attempts. Most of Bortles throws are thrown way short of the first down marker, FACT. Look at the videos of him I posted. The only reason why Carr's YPA is lower is because the offense he runs forces him to throw a lot of short passes behind the LOS instead of handing off.

I just find it hilarious that posters will try to make up and pass it off as fact with no proof to discredit Carr. He will likely go Top 5 so be lucky if Cleveland is even in position to draft him. He could be gone by the first 3 picks.

You're either TCPO's buddy or this is another account he posts from.

Derek Carr Last 2 games.

16 and 8 completions that travel more than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/

You are absolutely "CORRECT" when you say Carr only completes passes behind the line of scrimmage and all his yards are YAC while praising Bortles with having a gun. He has a gun alright, too bad it's a water pistol.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Bortles outperformed Bridgewater head to head in a victory and passes for over 350 yards against a top ranked Carolina defense, a game in which they lost by only three points. This is the same Carolina team that just spanked a ranked Clemson team only a week ago.

You might want to look at the videos again. You're making this way too easy for me to refute your claims.

Here is his game vs. Louisville. This is all his throws. He completes exactly 1 pass that travels more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. He also had a back breaking pick in the end zone when they were inside the red zone.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-louisville-2013/

Here is his game vs. South Carolina. His team was in the game in spite of his horrid play. He had 2 back breaking Int's and 2 fumbles. He had 3 completions that actually traveled more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. 2 of those were adequate passes. One was high and behind his receiver who made an awesome catch and run for a TD. Most of his yards were YAC.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

I do my own research and watch every throw. Sure, Carr plays in a pass happy spread quick hitting offense, but that isn't his fault. He has to throw those short passes because their o-line sucks and that supplements their run game. However, when they let him rip it, He not only CAN make every throw, he DOES make every throw: Outs, Fades, Streaks, Back-shoulder, in-stride, on the run. He even shows the grasp of the game as he calls plays at the line.

Carr makes all those throws every game, I haven't seen Bortles make those throws. You can find info on any site to prop one prospect up etc... I like to do it with the eye ball test. To me Bortles is just meh..... Carr is the perfect QB for Chud/Norv's system.

Why don't you provide some actual video to backup all your data? I've seen most of Carr's and Bortle's throws and it's not even close. Carr is head and shoulders above Bortles. Most mocks have Carr as a top 5 pick and Bortles isn't even listed yet.

I don't give a crap about level of competition or system. I look at the mechanics, intangibles, ball placement and arm talent.

Scouts Inc. is crap. They get paid to prop up prospects. McShay didn't even want to put Cam Newton on his board. He had D'Qwan Bowers and Nick Fairley rated 1 and 2 as well as Blaine Gabbert rated in top 5.

Haha McShay doesn't know dick about QB's. He has Blaine Gabbert rated 10 spots above Newton.

"Go with Missouri's Blaine Gabbert -- who I rate 10 spots higher than Newton -- at quarterback. Note: I'm hearing things about LSU CB Patrick Peterson and Georgia WR A.J. Green, but based on positional value, it's hard to believe the Panthers would go in either of those directions."

Link:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?page=mcshaymockdraft6.0

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

As I've been saying all year, though, I would rather have Bortles.

Bortles is bigger, they are equally as mobile, Bortles has just as good of an arm, he's performed well against much better talent than Carr has faced, and his elusiveness in the pocket is much better.

Sounds to me you're just a Bortles fanboy and will bash any other prospect. Carr runs a 4.56/40 and can side step and throw 65 yards with a flick of his wrist. His passes don't wobble and he has way more velocity and spiral on his passes than Bortles. Not to mention Carr has a very quick compact delivery and Bortles has a telegraphed Tebow delivery. Just look at the videos. They don't lie.

Carr side steps and launches ball 65 yards in the air with a flick of the wrist hitting WR in stride.

Blake Bortles Throwing motion and slow delivery

Blake Bortles is a right handed Tebow. Have you actually looked closely at his throwing motion? He has a Tebow windup and throws a very wobbly ball. 22 TD's 7 Ints? That is a horrific TD/Int ratio. 5 TO's in one game? 20 Sacks ? Multiple Fumbles? Might as well stick with Brandon Wheeden.

This video will pretty much sum up Blake Bortles at the NFL level. All check downs and multiple TO's.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

"They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."

Do you actually watch his games or videos?

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.