@slimdawg said:

I really dont get all the people saying we couldn't beat pissburgs jv team or scrubs!? They had 4 FOUR starters sit, i saw their starters on D playing the whole game so i dont get the jv bs.

After reading the post game comments from hawk and rg3, id bet dollars to donuts that the play called at the 2 yd. line was a run play with a bubble screen built in, very common play design nowadays. Hawk flat out said he didn't think he was getting the ball and was surprised. So that means Hue called a run first play, RG3 tried to be cute and threw the screen. RG3 even said he should have just handed the ball off. So everyone that's bashing Hue needs to jump off his nutsack, he coulda threw RG3 under the bus on that one but he didn't. IMO RG3 is still pretty raw. He got coached up his rookie year and then became an afterthought until this season. Im kinda intrigued about him having another full offseason with him being healthy and having the coaches focused on him. I understand that fans are frustrated with how the season went, i sure am. Maybe give the coach a chance to grow with his very very young and raw team.

If the head coach decides not to even dress 5 offensive starters, it's pretty obvious they don't care about the win. The defense, although many starters, played with the attitude set by the head coach. They played it like a preseason game.

No value to that show. It's a commercial for the Browns, not an honest discussion of the team or football in general.

Does no one care that Tom Brady took a bow in the home of the Browns? He was sent back out on to the field to take a bow?

Or, that Brady danced on the Browns sidelines, and no one did a thing?

Or, that the Browns took a knee on the last play?

That's NOT a winning culture. That last play should have been a real play. No excuses. You're losing, you do whatever you can to end on a good note. You don't roll over.

(a "no one cares about this thread" response is too easy)

Now your refusal to acknowledge the Browns moved makes sense.

13. The Ravens were formerly the Browns. The Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore and changed their name to the Ravens. Revisionist history has since taken place to appease those who don't want to acknowledge this fact.

Since Al Learner died, we don't have good direction from the top.

The current owner has no direction. He bought a team as an investment. It didn't matter what team, he made a business decision to purchase an NFL team. He will follow/copy other successful owners, but doesn't have what it takes to provide a "direction" for the team. He'll throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, but he has no convictions. This will lead to a winning season every once in a while, but not a sustained winning franchise.

What is needed is an owner who knows Cleveland, has a philosophy and convictions (in the realm of football) that he believes in, and implements.

Until we have that, we will have the "let's do what they're doing" approach, which can lead to winning seasons, but not to a winning franchise. There is a big difference.

A winning season here and there is the product of the NFL and it's design to make bad teams better. by virtue of high draft picks. A winning franchise is the product of a good owner and organization.

My opinion.

I go by Championships I can enjoy. I don't care who won in 1945.

So, as a Clevelander born in 1965, my teams have 1.

And I'm still celebrating!

This is pretty stupid.. but there's a 5 page thread about how much people hate another team.

Pettine is correct in my opinion. Elite organizations, teams, players have several years of performance. Patriots are an elite organization, Panthers are not. Panthers are very good this year, but I don't consider them elite yet. If they remain a top team for the next 5-10 years, then they are an elite organization. An organization, team or player can have a good year, or two, that is not being elite. Derek Anderson, Kordell Stewert - great years, not elite talent.

@westside-steve said:

If the sock monkey, assuming you mean Josh McCown, hd started instead of Hoyer last year we'd have gone to the playoffs.

WSS

McCown has played tough and played well, but t Hoyer won. No matter what, that's what counts.

As is the Brownsboard fans way, we can make excuses, what it's, yea buts, etc. Fact is Hoyer won with basically the same group.

Then listen to Cleveland Browns Daily. They will NEVER say anything negative about the Browns. Lots of stuttering, turing facts around, excuses, etc.

Cleveland born and raised. Cleveland is a great sports town and USE to be a great music town. Still has the best orchestra in the world and one of the best medical facilities. It's on its way back now that it's rid itself of Jimmy D and the like.

Pittsburgh is a great sports town, and has transformed itself into a great city. It tends to lead rather than follow.

Zombo said:

Ya, we need another QB that holds teams to ten points.

Zombo

or a defense that can put up 31 points.

Zombo said:

Last time we played these pussies we beat them 31-10 ... and that was with Ben and Bell.

Zombo

And we had a QB that won more than he lost.

Steelers have starting center, starting running back and starting quarterback out.

Now, we have a chance.

"non athletes"? I would say they are as much "athletes" as some of these linemen anymore. In fact, much more so.

Zombo said:

All Time Browns Dirty Dozen

Drunk and winging it:

Lou Groza

Gene Hickerson

Jim Brown

Walter Johnson

Jerry Sherk

Doug Dieken

Eddie Johnson

Don Rogers

Mike Baab

Eric Turner

Josh Cribbs

Karlos Dansby

Karlos Dansby one of the top Browns? That's like saying Bernie Kosar is a great Cowboy quarterback.

@the-gipper said:

While this thread title is "The Dirty Dozen" I was not actually thinking or hoping that we would not get "dirty" players....

Urlacher and Singletary: OK.

The other two may make a "Dirtiest player Dozen" list.

I agree, somewhat. Romanowski was dirty. Harrison's hits may be considered dirty today, however, they are no dirtier than the classics (in their time) on your list.

Bill Romanowski

Brian Urlacher

Mike Singletary

James Harrison

It's the late July Browns fan!