@ohiorams said:

the Browns will win because the nfl wants it to happen

What??? So games are fixed???

I don't think we stand a chance but I hope they play their hearts out. We, at this point, don't have the offensive weapons to do much against Seattle.

If the Browns plan on sticking with JM, you just grab Bosa and don't look back. If it's not Johnny, they got to take Paxton Lynch. (Who names their kid, Paxton??)

@mudfly said:

Hard for me to predict picks before free agency happens....hopefully our GM notes a lack of top level WR's and LB's in this years draft and aggressively goes after some established talent on the FA market.....(and not "yesterdays" talent)..... lets spent Jimmys money a little smarter this year....

JMHO, if Gordon is reinstated, and he will be, our receivers are just fine. I'm hoping for big things for Pryor. The kid is off-the-charts in athleticism and if power-forwards from basketball can become great tight-ends, the sky's the limit for Pryor.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Johnny Football will be QB, Gordon will be in some crackhouse in LA.

Whatever.

Yes, he does seem like a nice, young man who had some transgressions, probably all due to the environment he grew up in, The further, time-wise, he moves from his youth, the more responsible he is going to become.

@tour2ma said:

Get JM taller Receivers.... CHECK!

He has them in Gordon, Barnidge and Pryor.

My opinion is Josh is worth the risk, Johnny is not.

I think we're dealing with two diiferrent issues between the two. I don't think Josh is addicted to any substance. I think his trangressions are more behavioral, a product of his early life upbinging in the toughest part of town where drug usage was the norm. I'm praying that he had sufficient time to realize this, and hopefully incorporate some protective measures to keep himself clean.

Johnny, on-the-other-hand, exhibits all of the signs of a true alcoholic, he is addicted to alcohol. He checked himself into rehab, so anyone doubting that he is, is just being unrealistic. You don't spend all of that time in rehab if you're not an alcoholic, you're there for recovery. They don't treat the "help me cut down a little bit" crowd. It didn't take him long to relapse and I think we'll see him, hopefully, go back into rehab at the end of the season. The good news is that he knows he has a problem and wants to address it. Right now, Johnny cannot be trusted.

Yes, I'd like to see them both on the field, especially with Barnidge and Benjamin. Throw a sub-4.4 Pryor into the mix and then it really get's interesting.

I think it definitely matters. Drafting the "best available" is, in my mind, a fantasy. You have to draft for needs and therefore, you first draft pick may not be the best available.

@jiggins7919 said:

What scares me is hearing that our organization has people that are through with Josh Gordon and want to cut ties. The article I read didn't name anybody, but apparently there is some discrepancy among our management about what to do with him. It gets more complicated when you figure we'll have new components in our management, and lord knows how they'll feel.

Been hearing Hue Jackson's name from a few people, and I'd be fine with that. The real question to me is who will be our defensive coordinator?!

During his suspension, Gordon was subject to a maximum of 10 tests/month. He's been working his butt off to stay in shape. An article that doesn't name sources is certainly suspect. You don't get rid of an elite player like Gordon.

Yes, thanks for putting that analysis together for us. It kind of supports my belief that you keep Pettine for another year. He couldn't control those injuries in the secondary, or in the receivers group. The talent-depleted secondary hurt the whole defense.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w

And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.

@aggressor said:

Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.

Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.

Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.

@mr.-make-believe said:

Was it just me, or did he also run the wrong direction on his carry? Seemed like he avoided a hole and killed potential yardage even before the ball was knocked out.

Difficult to judge a guy on one solitary carry. But that was a rough one.

"Difficult to judge a guy on one solitary catt"? It sure as heck is...it's impossible and stupid, but that's what some of the so-called "fans" (read "haters") do here.

@aggressor said:

So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?

Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.

What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.

Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.

If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.

Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see this guy smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He's got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. What do you think he spent time in rehab for? Do you think they cured and incurable disease? To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! Unfortunately, he won't be tested for alcoholl until he is suspended by the league, just like Josh Gordon. At that point there will be zero-tolerence. You are out of your mind.

I'm definitely a Manziel hater, sorry to admit. It's over his off-field antics, immaturity, and I just think he's just too small for the NFL.

That aside, I thought he did an outstanding job today and was very impressed. Bone-head interception but I'm sure that's one he regrets. His elusiveness and ability to extend plays is impressive.

@mudfly said:

Right.....Im with you....

Coaching is getting blamed because thats the easy fix....and an easy solution....just pick a target and attack.....

Pettine is not the issue....but you(and I) are just spinning wheels....no one wants to hear the truth....(talent lacks)

I can't believe someone actually agrees with me!!

Analyze the season, determine what went wrong, do your best to upgrade talent, and stay the course. Blowing things up, bringing in completely new staff, and changing the entire system again, is a recipe for continued failure. There comes a time (now) when you just halve to dig in your heels and avoid knee-jerk reactions. They've never got us anywhere before and they won't if we go that route again.

Here's how it would go....

Browns fire Pettine and Farmer, 90% of the posters complain about yet another "blow-up" and call for new ownership, launch search for new coach, select new coach, 80% of the posters here complain about the selection, draft takes place, 75 % the posters complain about the picks, Browns go 4-12 in 2016, 100% of the posters complain about the new management/coaching, argumentum ad infinitum (an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more.)

@beare said:

I cant believe anyone would want to keep any of this staff or the gm !!!

But you'd be hard-pressed to name a next coach, who would have to bring in his own staff.

Look at defensive coordinator Jim O'Neal

"Jim O’Neil was named Browns defensive coordinator on Jan. 29, 2014.

In his first season as defensive coordinator, O’Neil’s unit made significant increases in nearly every major defensive statistic, including red zone defense (29th in 2013 to fifth in 2014), third down defense (31st to 11th), points per game (23rd to ninth) and quarterback rating (16th to first). The team led the NFL in opponent completion percentage (57.1), opponent passer rating (74.1) and passes defensed (99). The Browns finished second in the league with 21 interceptions, the team’s highest total since 2008, while also finishing tied for fourth in takeaways (29). Cleveland’s defense also finished in the top-10 in the league in pass defense (fifth with 6.44 yards per attempt) and total defense (ninth with an average of 5.24 yards per play)."

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches/jim-oneil/dc6a41dc-5088-49a1-9793-c3b5bff3c762

What's changed with O'Neal? He did a fantastic job last year, obviously a talented guy. Now he's had a secondary with a rash of injuries, and admittedly (Donte Whitner) poor execution by players. Why get rid of this guy? Replace him with who? His job at the end of the season will be to analyze what the problems where, evaluate the players and make recommendations to the GM.

I know I sure wouldn't want to go into the draft with an entirely new coaching staff.

@bbedward said:

The whole defensive staff has to go, at least.

Inheriting what defensive talent?