@mudfly said:

I dont think he's saying bust...

I think the premise is that no one should assume either....bust or boom.....and for the exact same reasons

Check out his old posts and you can reasonably infer that he means bust.

@bbedward said:

He said something about the bills moving to Toronto

He brought someone's daughter into the exchange also. Something was said about buttering bread and a boxing match almost ensued.

@aggie-brown-fan said:

Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.

The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.

He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.

Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.

Can we take these Brown's player bashing threads down? This shit is really sad considering so-called fans would rather talk about why our rookie qb will suck even though we are in a playoff run for the first time since 2007. Right now we're going to cheer on Hoyer and if he gets hurt then we're gonna cheer on Manziel, and if he gets hurt we'll cheer on Shaw/Grossman ect.

@opal312 said:

The Browns must take the lead Early and force Orton to throw. Thank God Gordon is back! Alex Smith got a win in Buffalo although it was close. This could come down to who has the better play calling. If Gordon can take one to the house early and we feed the Crow its winnable.

I see the defense forcing turnovers and us capitalizing on them this week. No way Hoyer has his third shitty game in a row. I see him throwing 2 tds with no turnovers, which will be well enough to win with the way our d has been playing recently.

@hoorta said:

B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.

You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.

You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement.

Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I'm sure Thomas would be behind Manziel if Hoyer got hurt.

@hoorta said:

B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.

You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.

You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement. You want to share some Manziel love there's another Forum out there that will welcome you with open arms- PM Playground Legend or me, and we'll point you in the right direction.

Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Just because they are behind Hoyer doesn't mean they wouldn't be behind Manziel if Hoyer got injured. The fact is Manziel doesn't get the reps in practice that Hoyer gets and no matter how shitty Hoyer plays in practice and/or how good Manziel plays in practice you can't bench a qb 11 games into a playoff run season.

@miktoxic said:

the LOBBY of his building!! not on the floor where he stays! what are you doing in the lobby of your building if not coming in from outside or meeting someone or somebody in that lobby?

answer me that batman?

man i should've been a detective.

Who the fuck cares? He was in the lobby of HIS apartment building. He can do what he wants there, just like you don't plan on being attacked when you walk outside of your house to take out the garbage. How shitty is your life that you have to criticize a 21 year old that was attacked on his property by a drug addict?

@miktoxic said:

i really doubt that his mom was with him and his friend in the lobby of the building @2:30 in the morning. if that's the case shame on him for having his mom out that late.

i'm thinking his mom was in his room sleeping while him and his boy were creeping, for what? maybe we'll never know. i know at 2:30 AM in cleveland it's not like you're getting chinese food delivered.

He was in his apartment building walking to his room! Maybe some coked up moron will show up at your house one day late at night and try to hug you, and we'll all chastise you for it.

Look this idiot up on the Erie county court docs that went to 'hug' Manziel. He has a pretty lengthy criminal record for public intox, DUI, fraud, drug use, spanning back to 2001, yet you'll take his word for it over one of our players.

@browns149 said:

Archie Manning sucked

He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's

Having the ability to reproduce after having played with the Saints back then is enough of an accomplishment to not be labeled a bust.

@texaskevin06 said:

But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.

Throwing a rookie in for week 12 would not be a wise decision during a playoff run, even if that rookie was Andrew Luck. Would really piss off the vets that have worked their asses off this year. We don't know what Johnny can do, but now is not the time to experiment.

@miktoxic said:

AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta.

He was with his mom at the building he lived at, it wasn't like he was slanging dope in the projects at 230 am. Maybe it was John Lennon's fault that he got shot by some batshit crazy fan, because it's obvious that this cocaine addicted, convicted felon was right to go after him.

@the-gipper said:

@mikethomas777 said:

List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.

That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.

We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for

Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.

. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?

I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.

Basically your post says, "Johnny may be a bust, so let's hope he's a bust." Quit bashing our rookie qb. Did you get beat up in high school or something? Are you one of those guys that pees in a stall and is mad at everyone?

Brady did not make the Patriots great. Look at their games from a season before and although they didn't have the best record almost every loss was within 3 points. Also a season before that they were 8-8. It was hardly a shitty team that was carried by a qb.

Of the top of your head, does anyone know what the best record to not make the nfl playoffs is?

@canton-dawg said:

Exactly why I loathe Toothlessburger, but that bastard can extend a play better than any other QB (except maybe Tarkenton).

That is a talent that really can't be coached. The QB either has it, or he doesn't.

I love watching Tarkenton videos, just wish the footage was of a little bit higher quality.

List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?

Atleast we're not facing Kiko Alonso again

Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.

@script-ohio said:

The guy who got beaten by Weeden is now your head coach.

Now I'm not so confident.

Brandon Weeden beat them last year. Enough said.

Brandon Weeden beat them last year. Enough said.