@tour2ma said: As I PM'd you once, Mud... Now we disagree about how great we are. Welcome back, my friend... Do we?......how great do you think we are.....cause Im happy, but need more to be in the "great" crowd......just wanted to re-enter on a completely positive note.....(wink)

Dont forget, you only dress 46... and you have 10 PS plus every other teams PS to bring up during the season

@flugel said: Not to interrupt your strange chest pounding ceremony here - but your cut and paste of the original post you replied to included this: 2) The D did look more aggressive and I love D......Ive had my fingers crossed that Williams would get these guys flying around and, so far, looks like he's making a difference. And it was... We even had DL clearing paths for LBs and DBs in both blitz and Goal Line situations... something I have longed for for-seemingly-ever. Nassib was a fucking wrecking ball in the GL-stand collapsing the right side of the Saints' line repeatedly. @ghoolie said:Greg WIlliams is Horton. Just like I told you.Nothing will change. HUE sets the D. Fucking moronic...

Having a "running QB" doesn't affect RB numbers

@tour2ma said: Plus it's how you bring that 5th man... I've bemoaned our inability to open "rush lanes" within our blitzes for years while opponents have created free runs at our QBs. Some of this is personnel (or lack thereof), but some was design. From what I have seen we now have a designer in charge of our D... and the promise of better personnel. Exactly, and that it what has me excited about the coming year defensively. No more running right to the pickup blocker and getting tied up immediately. As I said "unexpected times from unexpected places".

HC - Made some confusing decisions at the end of half and end of games. - Didn't handle the QB position very well, basically stunting the growth of the rookie by removing him from a game that he was playing well in...and sat him for most of the rest of the season in favor of two QB's who had proven to NOT be the future. OC - HC is the OC. As far as the offense goes, What can ya make with crap? Crap pie? Crap soup? Half the OL left in FA, the other half got hurt...leaving Joe Thomas alone. This resulted in our Crappy QB's not getting time to hook up with our Crappy WR's. Also resulting in no room for our half decent RB's to run. - It's awfully hard to judge an OC in a situation like last year. DC - Ray Horton released, Greg Williams brought in. - An experienced DC with some nastiness in him. Articulate and professional...but I'm certain his vocabulary could quickly shrink to four letter words in game situations. Some think that his D will be over-aggressive, will get burned and penalized a lot. We'll see. I think the D will be better under his tutelage. - I also think that Haslam consider's him someone that can be an interim coach should his itchy trigger finger get the best of him and he fires Hue. So, school is out on our HC. Our OC gets a mulligan. And our DC has a clean slate.

@baconhound said: What kills is they could've stayed put and taken Bosa or traded out once and taken Floyd, Apple or Hargraves in 2016. If they still made the Eagles trade they could've taken any number of players this year at 12. I'm pretty sure that Williams had some input on taking Peppers for the way he wants to run his defense. Bring this thread back when the season is done and we have a better idea what that D really looks like in action for a year.

@mudfly said: Hey Gunz.....the best thing to do in these situations is NOT take the bait.....it really isnt that hard and has a way of keeping the thread on track.... Since I am the supreme ruler on this thread, I declare it will close the instant the ghoolie plague takes over and turns it to shit.... He won't respond. Every time I have replied to him posts like this and showed him some truth, he hasn't responded. I would LOVE to see him try to take my challenge. I want to see his play designs set up specifically for Paxton Lynch and Mitch Trubisky

@comeonman said:lol

If Cleveland was willing to make the move for a late first round pick two years ago, would they consider it this year as part of a deal for the 20th overall pick? I think so. Hello! McFly! Is anybody home? Two years ago you would have been dealing with the discredited Ray Farmer. Now there is a new bunch running the Browns that...hopefully...aren't so stupid.

@topdawg31 said:I never leave my seat until the clock reads 00:00 at the end. Now there is my definition of a true fan!! Aggieland would welcome you to the fold!!

Camarones del Pacifico is my dish, shrimp stuffed with cheese and peppers wrapped in bacon, now I'm hungry for Mexico food

@mudfly said: Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison..... So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning..... Yup... no comparison... but they didn't have to "strip their team bare" did they? Here's their 10-6, 2010 starting squads with number of starts in parentheses: 4th-ranked Offense: 25 turnovers QB Peyton Manning (16) 4700 yards RB Donald Brown (8) 497 yards - Joseph Addai (7) 495 yards WR Pierre Garcon 784 yards - Reggie Wayne 1,355 yards, 6 td TE Dallas Clark (6) 347 yards LT Charlie Johnson (15) LG Kyle DeVan (12) C Jeff Saturday (16) RG Mike Pollak (13) RT Ryan Diem (16) 23rd-ranked Defense: 21 takeaways DE Dwight Freeney DE Robert Mathis LDT Fili Moala RDT Daniel Muir MLB Gary Brackett LB Pat Angerer LB Kavell Conner LCB Kelvin Hayden RCB Jerraud Powers SS Aaron Francisco FS Antoine Bethea And their 2-14, 2011 starters: 28th-ranked Offense: 29 turnovers QB Curtis Painter (8) 1,541 yards - Dan Orlovsky (5) 1201 yards - Kerry Collins (3) 481 yards RB Joseph Addai (11) 433 yards - Donald Brown (2) 645 yards WR Pierre Garcon (16) 947 yards - Reggie Wayne (16) 960 yards TE Dallas Clark (10) 352 yards LT Anthony Castonzo (12) LG Joe Reitz (9) C Jeff Saturday (16) RG Ryan Diem (11) RT Jeff Linkenbach (16) 28th-ranked Defense: 17 takeaways DE Dwight Freeney* DE Robert Mathis LDT Fili Moala RDT Antonio Johnson MLB Pat Angerer LB Kavell Conner LB Philip Wheeler LCB Jacob Lacey RCB Jerraud Powers SS David Caldwell FS Antoine Bethea Bottom line: They were a team that had to outscore their opponent and they suddenly lost their "scoring machine". That wasn't "tanking" per se. What they did do was hold out their medically cleared QB for the final three games (IIRC) in an attempt to seal the Luck deal... and even then they nearly blew it when Orlovsky woke up and won two of their last three. Now... did we strip out team bare? I say no, we did not.

@mudfly said: Ha!....deal...... Oh, can I give him an F if he drops another one that hits him in the chest? He would need to be cut ... Your rules. Z

@unsympathetic said: To everyone who keeps saying bring in high-priced FA's... How's that Houston quarterback situation this morning? Point being.. There is no quick fix if the objective is becoming a long-term contender. Sure, you can throw money at people for a couple years.. but then what? Consider NY's D.. they'll be around for 1-2 seasons at which point their OL could move from being a terrible liability to occasionally useful.. and then when those FA players leave again, the team will be right back where they were before because the FO still can't draft. Not always. November of 2014, we were 7-4 and the Raiders were 0-11. November 2016, raiders in the playoffs, Browns 0 fer. 2 years and smart picks. Both FA and draft.

@mudfly said: 2) Kirksey and Collins making plays. and thats all I got...... the ONLY positive thing i saw on sunday was kirksey. too much to bitch about, so i won't. @texasag1969 said:I would add that Shelton has been doing his job far better lately than at any time last year. loved the shelton pick. will be here a long time. hopefully our FO realizes the assinine stupidity of letting people walk as if we are the patriots or something. @gftchris said:The D showed up and played to its ability for 3 quarters, too bad the game is 4 quarters long.

I'm sure you will think you have, Gip... @gftchris said:For example, do you think this team would be better with Khalil Mack, or Ogbah and Kirksey? Those two may combine for as many sacks, tackles, PDs etc as Mack but they're not going to have the same impact. Maybe you've already covered it and I missed it, but it's worth talking about. I think that is pretty much what we've ended up debating, Chris, but your spin has crystallized it for me... The attraction... the payoff of taking the "right" impact player high is undeniable, but part of a roster's readiness for targeting those picks is its readiness to absorb the possible outcome that the target turns out to be merely good... or worse. And if you have to trade up for that shot??? IMO we're just not there yet... doesn't mean retreat... we should shoot the ammo we have, if it's appropriate for the target(s) we have in sight.

@mudfly said: My theory is that todays media and FO's have better tools to find & rank the good players..... In the last 20-30 years, draft prep has come a looooooooooong way, as has the player evaluation process...... And with the Mel Kipers, PFF's, analytics and vast amounts of information available....it just leaves much less room for sleepers and surprises..... Makes sense... and then there's the Combine... Even if their evaluations vary widely, players get noticed today that slipped thru cracks previously.

Perhaps in those dreams Derrick Thomas was in a Browns uniform..

@the-gipper said:I take it that these are in order of the PFR Career Average stat? Apparently yes, maybe a good barometer on the relative value of players. Cleveland Browns Career Approximate Value Leaders Seasons: 68 (1946 to 2016) Record (W-L-T): 508-455-13 Playoff Record: 16-20 <------- THIS ONE ALWAYS GOT ME! LESS THAN .500? Super Bowls Won: 0 (0 Appearances) Championships Won*: 8 All-time Passing Leader: Brian Sipe 1,944/3,439, 23,713 yds, 154 TD All-time Rushing Leader: Jim Brown 2,359 att, 12,312 yds, 106 TD All-time Receiving Leader: Ozzie Newsome 662 rec, 7,980 yds, 47 TD All-time Scoring Leader: Lou Groza 1,608 points All-time AV Leader: Clay Matthews 124 AV Winningest Coach: Paul Brown 158-48-8