@tacosman said: "We believe in today’s football that the passing game on both sides of the ball has the biggest impact on wins and losses" I like how he said both sides of the ball....making it clear that the importance of decreasing the opponent's pass game(and most importantly it's efficiency) >>>>> stopping their running game.   Let's hope that all the moves going forward are reflecting that and that Stefanski takes note as well in game planning.   If Hue Jackson got two years, then Stefanski should get the same. I'm just hoping that after that first game he holds his players accountable. That was a terrible outing by the Browns. Still making training camp mistakes on game day. False starts with zero crowd noise is unaccepable. Releasing Seibert is a good indicator that he is.

This thread aged well.

???  page 1 and 2 The gift that keeps giving.

Cleve... You keep harping on yards. You rightly noted that our Offense created pressure on the opposition to score.... but the opposition didn't... at least not to the extent they did in prior years. Last year our turnovers gave short fields to the opponents regularly. We gave up cheap points early and often, and the lack of threat by our O gave opponents much of the 2nd-half off most Sundays. If you don't have far to go or need points, then you don't rack up yards. Of your top ten run Ds... five are paired with top ten scoring Offenses (#3 NO; #5 IND; #6 LAC; #8 PTG and #9 CHI) and two more are added if we look at the top 13 (#11 HOU and #13 BLT). We all know that opposing teams abandon the run when they are down. The other three are: #18 PHI, #22 DAL and #25 DET... two wild cards and an also ran. Bottom line... you need proficiency on both sides of the ball to succeed and while we are not there yet, we made huge strides on both sides in 2018... in lockstep.

@tacosman said: We won't go 0fer(or even 1fer) again and we even won 2 in a row.   We've fired our terrible HC and are getting a new HC  with no connections to the current browns shortly after the season is over.  New coordinators likely as well.  And we are actually being talked about as an attractive  head coaching opening, unlike most years.  Our qb has had an uneven first year, but has showed promise at times and you have to figure he's going to get better.   We won't be favored to win the afc north next year, but we will probably be +700 or so.....which is a hell of a lot better than we have been recently and thats something to get excited about it feels like we are headed in the right direction.....if we get a good coach....i don't see any current coaches i would want though....we will see....hopefully this will turn out good....i agree with everything you said on your post...

@texasag1969 said: Braden Mann wins the 2018 Ray Guy award as best college punter in the nation. https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2018/12/06/texas-ams-braden-mann-honored-nations-best-punter-wins-ray-guy-award Aggie fag

@tacosman said: Lets start with the defense.  A great +/- in turnovers got us off to a good start, but now the cracks are showing.  Our secondary is disastrous.  Ward has slowed a little bit but still looks like a good one in the future.  Randall has been hurt recently and is probably serviceable when healthy(but not much more).  Everyone else has been....basally unplayable on any other team.  Our needs are numerous- we need another starting quality corner to go alongside ward, and we need another starting safety to replace whatever percentage of the plays peppers is out there.  That has been an abject disaster and he is unplayable in 2018 in the secondary.  We also need more nickel/slot corners.  The safety to replace peppers needs to be more versatle.  Replacing peppers, bringing in another starting corner, upgrading the '5th' secondary spot in some packages, situations....those all need to be goals.  On the dline, Im not that worried about Garrett.  Sure he's going to get run at sometimes...thats the nature of the beast when talking about an edge pass rusher most of the time.  As for gregg williams, Im sure a lot of it depends on how the fit between(and what power we give nw coach) our new HC and Williams is, but I'd be fine if he went and I suspect he may not be here in 2019 as well depending on who new HC is. The offense is terrible.  Baker got off to a promising start, but he's been putrid the last several games.  his confidence he started with looks shot.  The wide recievers?  I gotta give myself props for this, because I was the one in here saying our wide recieving group is *still* going to suck coming into the year.  A lot of you guys were saying Landry, Gordon and Callaway would be a top 5 recieving group.  I pointed out that Gordon hasnt looked good(even when on the field) in 5+ years,  Calloway is a late round draft pick, and with Landry just because you pay a guy like a difference making wr doesn't mean he is one.  The last several games he has been pathetic, reverting to his 2017 miami(where he sucked) tendencies.  No idea why Duke isn't more of an option in passing game.  Issues on offensive line.  Everything said above about williams is true of Haley as well. Just a dissapointing first half i agree with the whole assement....as far as garrett goes...he is a sutuational pass rusher and that is it...someone on another thread mentioned we gave away all our run stoppers on the dl and all we have are pass rushers...i totally agree with that...we suck at stopping the run...the lb's suffer because of that also because the dl cannot even stop the opposing ol from coming down on the lb's...and that is bad...today is a really bad day....i know people wanted to see jackson fired and deservingly so, but it does nothing but put us back again....like a reboot...the future is uncertain again...

@tacosman said: a few points: -I'm not sure what you mean by "once the first event has occured". I don't see how, in this case, that alters the fundamental nature of it.  It only creats one more point of data for something that we already have massive data on.  Additionally, the nature of going for two vs an extra point isn't something where the element of an option(since you now have to go for 2) matters. -and yes you always cling to the data.  You never go back and look at the outcome and say "things played out as they shoiuld"(or shouldnt have).  Thats why BB's famous decision against the colts many years ago on that fourth and 2 or 3 was right....even though that didn't make it.   -additionally, my comments on how it is an easy call refer specifically at a certain point towards the end of the game, specifically in the 4th qtr(especially with 8 mins or less in 4th qtr).  I should have referred more specificallly to the steelers game; as you note and I erred on the firt td happened much earlier. At other points in the game due to randomness of other possessionss, possible different scenarios, etc it is much less clear.  And then it probably does become more team specific. But not in that steelers game.  The model is so in favor of going for 2 in situations like the steelers game that questions about whether an offense is bad or a defense is good really don't apply- you'd literally have to be looking at the 85 bears defense against the current arizona cardinals offense for it to be even closer, and it still would likely be fairly clear. In making decisions, a coach has to decide if they are going to be like mike mularkey and jason garrett or like sean mcvay and BB.  Coaches like the latter aren't aggressive on things like 4th down because they are trying to send a statement about being aggressive; they do that because it's the 'percentage play'...it is what gives you the best chance to win.  Decisions like those really go to what a coach and organization is all about- if they don't understand those principles, then they are likely to be making other poor decisions and dont get the big picture.   I meant that the arguments against you in this thread have been largely (and wrongly) based upon arguments that in the probability analysis of two independent occurrences the outcome of the first event is only significant after it has occurred. I meant you have been still arguing "data" when Shurmur's use of it bears out your position. NYG made 1 of 2 two-point tries last nite. When providence hands you a real life example, use it. I missed any reference to the Steelers' game... and in any case do not remember it. My only point was that the chart I screenshot does give Hue some cover. Agree... and so does Mike Vrable. It's no coincidence that he is a twig on the BB coaching tree... a twig I think has a very good chance of growing to be the most successful branch since BB's Cleveland days. One last, and new, point... I wonder what the impact is on home (where traditional thought is to play for the tie and OT) vs. road (when conventional wisdom is to go for the win in regulation) games...

@unsympathetic said: Doubtful. This year's DL [both edge and interior] class is otherworldly.  Top-20, sure. My top 7 is some order of Ed Oliver / Bosa / Clelin Ferrell / the Bama OT / The Other Josh Allen / Rashaan Gary / Raekwon Davis.  Mix and match but I bet nobody skill goes before 8. I do not believe Haskins will nor should he come out. So he would not/should not be in the top of this draft. But, if for some reason he would declare:   Hello! McFly!  Is anybody home?    He is a fuyucking QB.  Of course a damned QB is going to go high if the NFL scouts believe he has the goods. 

If I was a fan of Rush, I might have... @dutch-oven said: But kissing your own sister has been compared to a tie, too... ? Except in Pittsburgh... @mark-o said: Yes...Titans game.  I remember that one.   How many years ago was that? Also vs. ATL in same general time frame.

@flugel said: Here's the opinions of guys that know a lot more about NFL passing games than Taco. There's quite a bit of combined experience talking about where they feel the tandem of Gordon and Landry will rank among the elite.   If we compare this to what we had heading into the first 12 weeks of last season - hard to see the doom and gloom Taco wants to see.  http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000938431/Ranking-the-top-5-wide-receiver-duos-in-the-NFL-heading-into-2018 Yup, it's the Ghoolie thing we didn't get Barkley, and we don't have any playmakers. Gordon, Landry, Hyde, and Chub as a group are certainly better than one man show Saquon. I'll even throw in bad attitude OBJ. the Giants are hoping Eli has one more year of gas in the tank. I'm not betting on it. 

Good but rambling read on Landry from a fan.  https://www.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/7wjalm/closer_look_at_jarvis_landry/ I also thought this Mayock quote was interesting from prior to when he was drafted " PICK ANALYSIS: "When you put the tape on to watch Odell Beckham play, you can't tell which one is Beckham. I like the opportunity he's going to get in Miami." -- Mike Mayock

@hoorta said: Yeah, he's not a home run hitter- so what? We can afford to pay him. Regarding the metrics- it just occurred to me- then why were teams lining up (besides the Browns) to pay him his $14 million?  Not being top 15? That's your opinion, if you like, I'll say differently. Only 12 WRs get voted to the Pro Bowl, and Landry has made it 3 seasons running. Sorry- that makes him at least top 12 in the NFL. Little wonder he was the consensus top WR free agent, and we snagged him.  As to why the Dolphins couldn't keep Landry- here's the primary reason. They (foolishly IMHO) gave Ndamukong Suh the stars, sun, and moon to come on down to Miami. From the looks of spotrac, they're married to him through 2019..   http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh-6511/ Sometimes it's not the X's and O's but the good.....or bad..... $'s and cents that can dictate your immediate football future. And of course plain ol' bad luck and injuries can enter into the picture. 

@7moses7 said: Can we all stop calling him Hue  and just call him Uncle Fester until he is gone 

@texasag1969 said: Talk about fuzzy math. Now if he gets one in 5 right and he gets 5 right than math logic tells me that therefore he got 20 wrong, not 4. It's a ratio thing. LOL! Must be "new" math...

@louisville-slugger said: If he develops into a stud special teamer than we couldn't call him a bust Yes.  Yes I can. 

@clevfan4life said: 5-6 wins next season and im offering the entire lockerrom old fashioneds. Fuk. 5-6 wins is like a paradigm shift for this org. 5-6 wins will not be a definite sign that things are going in the right direction. It might be, it might not be.

Yeah, Tour's arrogant....

And this is ALL just from ONE THREAD. That you were merely "hoping" it would be a different and not actually saying it was is, again, a bald-faced lie. warped ******************************** this is making you cry or what? yes, I said I can see a turnaround...except sashi still signed britt which was a colossal mistake. what is wrong with you? How is "I can see a turnaround" that didn't happen like I hoped... you are just wasting time on the board, bitching about nothing, again. I read what I posted, it doesn't contradict how I feel now at all. "der"

@topdawg31 said: NFL goalposts are so much narrower than the college post, it takes time for the transition. Let me point out again , Dawson made only 66% of his kicks his rookie year but everyone wants to say bring back Dawson.  They are 18 feet, 6 inches wide for both college and the NFL.