I have followed the Seahawks the past couple of years as I tend to follow Notre Dame players in the NFL. Seneca Wallace is a solid backup (I don't know about best in the league), is a kind of Tony Romo-lite kind of guy. He certainly doesn't suck, is athletic, and has put up nice numbers in the WCO. I'd start him over Anderson in a heartbeat. He does have a problem getting it in the endzone though. He tossed only 1 TD per 40 attempts last season, while Hass was better than 1/30, and even Quinn was better. And Wallace had a much better receiving corps.

Is the thought that this means the Browns will draft a QB and develop him under Wallace? I'm not even certain Wallace would win out a QB competition against Quinn, even if Wallace is comfy with the offense. And he's widely regarded as having a low top-end. So I'm not sure what to make of the move.

I'd be surprised if Cleveland doesn't run with 3 QBs (even if only two are typically active). If you're starting a QB who doesn't have a ton of experience, you want a vet there on the sidelines. That's two at a minimum. Three is insurance.

@drunkandstoopid said:

While you are not reasearching Smith's surroundings, you might as well continue not researching Quinn's surroundings either... all but a couple players on his offense either were drafted, got into NFL camps for a serious look, or spurned the NFL (baseball, ministry), some of them were starting before he got a start. He wasn't alone.

Did you watch every game of Quinn's career, and nearly every ND game for the past 25 years? If not, you probably aren't better equipped to pronounce judgments on ND's personnel when Quinn was there than I am. ND had a solid offensive line, a good TE, a solid WR, and a very good QB. You can believe what you will, but everyone who watched Notre Dame regularly saw that he was, far and away, the best player on that team.

Like I said though Mass's targets aren't top 20 in the AFC, but his drops are top 16 in the NFL. That means he's not catching at a WR1 rate. I agree that he made some great catches. He also drops a lot of easy ones.

Hey, did you just add that line about my being an ND fan? I didn't see it before. I don't see a reason why what college team we like should have any impact on this debate. One guy had an incredible season despite the players around him. One guy had an incredible season because of the players around him. That's how I see it. That's how scouts saw it. That's how teams drafted.

Tom, maybe I'm missing something, but for the life of me, I don't see it. I don't care if Ohio State somehow replaced 12 starters on the defense was amazing. It may have been better than Smith's Junior season. I don't care if Notre Dame had 500 men on the field on defense, all Pro-Bowlers returned from the NFL: they were not amazing. If you think that having a good defense cannot do great things for a QB's growth in very short order, see guys like Rothlisberger, Rivers, and Flacco (and if you extend it to college, the list swells to become ridiculous).

Was Smith a "nice story"? I suppose so. I don't see that it makes Smith a better quarterback than Brady Quinn.

I don't want Cleveland to draft a QB with an early pick. I don't mind if they pick up someone later in the draft or even if they try to go out and get a vet to take Quinn under his wing (Anderson will be gone). I don't see what bringing in Troy Smith would do though, even if he is cheap. I don't see him winning the starting job and I don't see him helping our other QB(s) in any way.

MoMass has poor to bad hands. And he doesn't know how to adjust to a throw either.

Despite not being in the top 20 for targets IN THE AFC, he was top 16 for drops IN THE NFL.

Seriously, guys? He will never be elite, but he might be a good WR2.

@flugel said:

Ohio State REPLACED 9 defensive starters heading into his senior year while losing 5 juniors to the NFL draft T. I think you need to research this better. That was a big reason why Jim Rome was cautioning Buckeye fans that AJ Hawk wouldn't bet Packer teammate Charles Woodson. BOTH years, Troy had to overcome Michigan leads which doesn't really convey Troy's defense was bailing him out.

What would I research? Ohio State yielded just over 10 PPG that season, 2nd best in 1A. They were basically top 10 in every defensive category. They had an utterly dominant defense. Everyone following football that year knew it.

I think there are a lot of reason why Smith was drafted in the 5th round, but Quinn went in the first. Smith played on a very good team with a dominant defense. Quinn was the best player on his team. I think too many guys look at someone who can throw far and fall in love with that (I'm not saying it's something that's unimportant; I'm saying it's overemphasized). Look at JaMarcus Russell. No one talked about him until the Bowl Game vs. ND. Suddenly, he was a great prospect? No, I always thought of him as a huge arm and nothing else. That's what he seems to be. Troy Smith? Great athlete. Not a QB. Brady Quinn always looked like a really tough competitor, a solid athlete, and a good QB. And that's what everyone said about him until the LSU game. If you watched it, you saw a team vastly outclassed. LSU was simply better across the board. The Irish looked horrible. You can pin it on Quinn, I suppose. He was the best player on the team, but he didn't win it for them. I simply felt terrible for him because almost no one showed up (certainly not his line).

I'm still a bit surprised that people say things like, "I haven't seen Quinn do a thing at the NFL level." I know his numbers overall are unimpressive, but so are a lot of guys who haven't had the key handed over to them for a full season. And plenty of young QBs who start off with unimpressive numbers grow into very good NFL QBs. I don't even think it's a question that Quinn outperformed Anderson this year. Maybe that's not much in the book of some. Still, Quinn has looked good numerous times running the 2-minute drill (for instance, against San Diego this season). He's tough, runs the offense well, can do something with his feet, and I thought was one of the big reasons the team started to gel toward the end of the season. If you haven't seen Quinn do anything, why is Troy Smith even in the conversation?

Two things.

First: massive cushions on Tate weren't the norm, but Clausen was good consistently. The Irish were good at finding ways to open things up for Tate. Close coverage on Tate meant long passes, well thrown by Clausen, and caught by Tate. Big cushion meant something underneath. There really were no weaknesses in the connection between those two. I don't see how it can be a criticism of either player that they exploited what the D gave them.

Second: looking at Quinn in losses IS just as important as looking at blowouts. I just hate that no one who's not a diehard fan of the Irish seems to care about what he did except for in losses. And even then, they focus on the bad games. If you want to be objective, look at what he did in all the games.

vs. Georgia Tech: 23-38, 246 yards 0 TD, 0 INT (ran for one TD)

vs. Penn State: 25-36, 287 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT

vs. Michigan 24-48, 234 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT (Loss)

vs. Michigan State 20-36, 319 yards, 5 TD, 1 INT

vs. Purdue 29-38, 316 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT

vs. Stanford 27-37, 232 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT

vs. UCLA 27-45, 304 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT

vs. UNC 23-35, 346 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT

vs. USC 22-45, 274 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT (Loss)

vs. LSU 15-35, 148 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT (Loss)

BQ's senior year minus service academies: 28 TDs, 6 INTs (7-3 record)

Those numbers compare favorably to any QB in NCAA history.

Just in losses: 61-128, 653 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT

@yosemitejam said:

M Bush could be the real deal..would have won the heisman 06 hadn't he broke his tibia 1st game.. saw him play at louisville..type of player who could take over a game back then....a ton of potential...hell he can even qb...had great qb numbers as high school stud...interesting

Bush is the best overall RB for the Raiders. Fargas is a better runner when he's healthy, but he's never healthy. I cannot see the Raiders letting him go unless they get something very nice in exchange. Al Davis is stupid, but he loves his athletes.

I hope Cleveland doesn't break the bank for a TE like Scheffler. He's so far from elite it's absurd (I'd rank at least fifteen TEs above him: Gates, Witten, Cooley, Shiancoe, Shockey, Miller, the other Miller, Davis, Clark, Carlson, Celek, Heap, Finley, Boss, and Winslow). I like Moore at TE, believe it or not, if we can pick up one legit WR. And I want it to be one through FA. I'd like to see our biggest FA acquisition at that WR spot. Give me someone with work ethic, experience, and the ability to make defenses take account of him on every play. That's going to open up Moore and the running game, even if we're playing dink-and-dunk in general.

Moore's numbers project out to (at 16 games): 38 catches, 506 yards; Scheffler had 31 for 416 on the season, and never had significantly better numbers. But I'll stop beating that horse.

A guy like Boldin may not want to come to Cleveland, but there are other good WRs out there.

Brandon Marshall. The Bad: He's insane. The Good: 307 catches, 3700 yards, and 23 TDs over the last three years.

Derrick Mason: The Bad: He's 36. The Good: 256 catches, 3100 yards, 17 TDs over the last three.

Boldin: The Bad: Has missed 7 games over the last three; The Good: Averaging 6.3 catches, 75 yards, and .6 TDs per game over the last three.

I liked seeing Cribbs and Thomas at #1, 2. Rogers was a beast, but when he went out, Rubin stepped up HUGE.

Other guys I Liked seeing roughly where they were: Harrison, Roth (I banged his drum from the day Cleveland acquired him), Moore, Furrey, and Mass (I bet some put these last two much higher). Furrey is a bad TE, decent DB. Mass is a so-so WR at best. Good athlete, no hands.

@kshutchins said:

I've heard the announcers/analysts say that but what does it mean, exactly?

You know how Quinn doesn't always settle his feet properly and the ball floats? If he had exceptional mechanics all around, he wouldn't do that. Sanchez just makes stupid decisions.

@yosemitejam said:

has it been disclosed exactly what type of injury bq has?? last i heard he had a 'foot' injury..anybody seen anything more specific??

Mid-foot sprain, per Cleveland.com

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...e_right_ma.html

Do you think Sanchez is a stud QB?

While I certainly don't want the Browns taking a QB early, I think your takes on Clausen reveal that you haven't really watched him. Clausen does not lock onto a target and he sees the field incredibly well (that's why he threw 33 TDs vs. 4 INTs and hit just about 70% of his passes over his last 13 games).

The numbers are skewed so heavily in favor of Tate at least in part because the other two main pass catchers on the team missed 3 and 5 games, respectively.

Michael Floyd caught 44 balls in 7 games. His numbers, projected out to 12 games like Tate's, are: 75 grabs, 1363 yards, and 15 TDs). Many thought that Floyd was the better receiver of the two, even early in this season. I personally preferred Tate all along, as he's more explosive.

Kyle Rudolph (TE) caught 33 passes in 9 games. None of ND's other receivers played more than 8 games. Clausen didn't lock onto him. He threw to Tate when he was open. And when he wasn't, Clausen threw elsewhere. It's something to keep in mind, and it's something you may not have seen if you didn't watch all of ND's games.

@ballpeen said:

I see it like this....DA's bad days are about as good as Quinn's good days.

Knowing that, the smart money sticks with DA.

If the two QBs were slot machines, nobody would play Quinn. You will never get a payout.

I have no idea how you could have watched the past two seasons and still believe something like that.

Holmgren's touching himself, salivating at the thought of Anderson tossing TDs to defensive backs all day long.

@atenears said:

I thought so.

Dude single-handedly won so many games it's insane. He's just a champion, through and through.