PFF ranks Baker Mayfield tenth best QB heading into 2021
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Amazing - Marino and Mayfield - the only two to throw 11,ooo yards their first three years?
https://www.brownsnation.com/mayfield-shares-historic-stats-with-dan-marino-through-3-seasons/
Mayfield Shares Historic Stats With Dan Marino Through 3 Seasons
"In their first 3 seasons, only two players in NFL history have at least 11k pass yds, 75 pass TD, and an 89 passer rating:
Baker Mayfield
Dan Marino"
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Amazing - Marino and Mayfield - the only two to throw 11,ooo yards their first three years?
https://www.brownsnation.com/mayfield-shares-historic-stats-with-dan-marino-through-3-seasons/
Mayfield Shares Historic Stats With Dan Marino Through 3 Seasons
"In their first 3 seasons, only two players in NFL history have at least 11k pass yds, 75 pass TD, and an 89 passer rating:
Baker Mayfield
Dan Marino"
Amazing - Marino and Mayfield - the only two to throw 11,ooo yards their first three years?
https://www.brownsnation.com/mayfield-shares-historic-stats-with-dan-marino-through-3-seasons/
Mayfield Shares Historic Stats With Dan Marino Through 3 Seasons
"In their first 3 seasons, only two players in NFL history have at least 11k pass yds, 75 pass TD, and an 89 passer rating:
Baker Mayfield
Dan Marino"
Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, and damn near Cam Newton, Matty Ice and Tony Romo. Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure Russell Wilson was probably pretty close as well.
I'm not saying I'm not excited for the upcoming season and I'm glad to have Baker on this team. But we attempt to place these players up there with historic company and thus their accomplishments to generate that hype.
Pace yourselves, friends. The season is a grind.
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Amazing - Marino and Mayfield - the only two to throw 11,ooo yards their first three years?
https://www.brownsnation.com/mayfield-shares-historic-stats-with-dan-marino-through-3-seasons/
Mayfield Shares Historic Stats With Dan Marino Through 3 Seasons
"In their first 3 seasons, only two players in NFL history have at least 11k pass yds, 75 pass TD, and an 89 passer rating:
Baker Mayfield
Dan Marino"
Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, and damn near Cam Newton, Matty Ice and Tony Romo. Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure Russell Wilson was probably pretty close as well.
I'm not saying I'm not excited for the upcoming season and I'm glad to have Baker on this team. But we attempt to place these players up there with historic company and thus their accomplishments to generate that hype.
Pace yourselves, friends. The season is a grind.
Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, and damn near Cam Newton, Matty Ice and Tony Romo. Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure Russell Wilson was probably pretty close as well.
I'm not saying I'm not excited for the upcoming season and I'm glad to have Baker on this team. But we attempt to place these players up there with historic company and thus their accomplishments to generate that hype.
Pace yourselves, friends. The season is a grind.
Well....Baker DID hold the rookie record for most TDs in his rookie season, until Justin Herbert broke it this past season. That was not a slanted or inaccurate statistic.
Perhaps a better thing to look at for a young QB is: Which QBs led their teams to a Championship in their first 3 years in the league. Here they are:
Championships won in Year One:
Otto Graham. This applies to both his time in the AAFC and the NFL. He won titles in his first year in both leagues
Bob Waterfield. Won NFL title in his rookie year in 1945 with the Cleveland Rams
Sammy Baugh. Won title his rookie year of 1937 with the Redskins
NO rookie won a Championship in his rookie year in the Super Bowl era
Championships won in Year Two:
Sid Luckman Bears
Kurt Warner Rams (though he played some years in the Arena League, his 1999 SB victory was only his 2d year in the NFL
Tom Brady Pats.
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
Russell Wilson Seahawks
Championships in Year Three:
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Patrick Mahomes
Every name above either is in or is headed into the PFHOF it would seem (BR/Wilson/Mahomes)
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Passing stats in the NFL are akin to strikeout totals by pitchers in the MLB.
In comparison to other eras, almost every QB is going to look like Joe Montana just like almost every pitcher looks like Bob Feller now.
I mean, it's a nice fact, but Baker might be in the top 10 QBs in the NFL right now.
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Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, and damn near Cam Newton, Matty Ice and Tony Romo. Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure Russell Wilson was probably pretty close as well.
I'm not saying I'm not excited for the upcoming season and I'm glad to have Baker on this team. But we attempt to place these players up there with historic company and thus their accomplishments to generate that hype.
Pace yourselves, friends. The season is a grind.
Well....Baker DID hold the rookie record for most TDs in his rookie season, until Justin Herbert broke it this past season. That was not a slanted or inaccurate statistic.
Perhaps a better thing to look at for a young QB is: Which QBs led their teams to a Championship in their first 3 years in the league. Here they are:
Championships won in Year One:
Otto Graham. This applies to both his time in the AAFC and the NFL. He won titles in his first year in both leagues
Bob Waterfield. Won NFL title in his rookie year in 1945 with the Cleveland Rams
Sammy Baugh. Won title his rookie year of 1937 with the Redskins
NO rookie won a Championship in his rookie year in the Super Bowl era
Championships won in Year Two:
Sid Luckman Bears
Kurt Warner Rams (though he played some years in the Arena League, his 1999 SB victory was only his 2d year in the NFL
Tom Brady Pats.
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
Russell Wilson Seahawks
Championships in Year Three:
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Patrick Mahomes
Every name above either is in or is headed into the PFHOF it would seem (BR/Wilson/Mahomes)
Well....Baker DID hold the rookie record for most TDs in his rookie season, until Justin Herbert broke it this past season. That was not a slanted or inaccurate statistic.
That wasn't in the link or meme.
So.......
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Well....Baker DID hold the rookie record for most TDs in his rookie season, until Justin Herbert broke it this past season. That was not a slanted or inaccurate statistic.
That wasn't in the link or meme.
So.......
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Amazing - Marino and Mayfield - the only two to throw 11,ooo yards their first three years?
https://www.brownsnation.com/mayfield-shares-historic-stats-with-dan-marino-through-3-seasons/
Mayfield Shares Historic Stats With Dan Marino Through 3 Seasons
"In their first 3 seasons, only two players in NFL history have at least 11k pass yds, 75 pass TD, and an 89 passer rating:
Baker Mayfield
Dan Marino"
Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, and damn near Cam Newton, Matty Ice and Tony Romo. Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure Russell Wilson was probably pretty close as well.
I'm not saying I'm not excited for the upcoming season and I'm glad to have Baker on this team. But we attempt to place these players up there with historic company and thus their accomplishments to generate that hype.
Pace yourselves, friends. The season is a grind.
Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
so......Baker started week 3 of his rookie year, started all 16 games in 2019, started all 16 games in 2020...so.... it WAS his first three seasons played, he just didn't start the first two.... and still ranks up there with Marino ........isn't that even a bit MORE impressive?
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Well....Baker DID hold the rookie record for most TDs in his rookie season, until Justin Herbert broke it this past season. That was not a slanted or inaccurate statistic.
That wasn't in the link or meme.
So.......
That wasn't in the link or meme.
So.......
So.....that is why I gave you more meaningful stats. The rookie TD record and the one on the championships......because that is, after all, what really counts.
Fair to say.
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Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
so......Baker started week 3 of his rookie year, started all 16 games in 2019, started all 16 games in 2020...so.... it WAS his first three seasons played, he just didn't start the first two.... and still ranks up there with Marino ........isn't that even a bit MORE impressive?
so......Baker started week 3 of his rookie year, started all 16 games in 2019, started all 16 games in 2020...so.... it WAS his first three seasons played, he just didn't start the first two.... and still ranks up there with Marino ........isn't that even a bit MORE impressive?
Either you've misunderstood my post or I'm misunderstanding yours. My point being is the slant of this particular stat line is exclusionary because it ONLY counts the first 3 seasons in the NFL, played or riding the pine ( example -Rodgers)
If it was first 3 seasons played at the position, it would be a much longer list. Baker has this distinction because he, much like many of rookies, were thrown in the fire very early.
If we want a more apt comparison, going off those first 48 games would produce a more honest stat line.
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So.....that is why I gave you more meaningful stats. The rookie TD record and the one on the championships......because that is, after all, what really counts.
Fair to say.
Either of those things were and are irrelevant to this conversation and the stats applied. This would be like me bringing up interception percentage and you going " yeah, but check out Bakers rushing yards". Doesn't factor into this particular discussion.
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So.....that is why I gave you more meaningful stats. The rookie TD record and the one on the championships......because that is, after all, what really counts.
Fair to say.
Either of those things were and are irrelevant to this conversation and the stats applied. This would be like me bringing up interception percentage and you going " yeah, but check out Bakers rushing yards". Doesn't factor into this particular discussion.
Either of those things were and are irrelevant to this conversation and the stats applied. This would be like me bringing up interception percentage and you going " yeah, but check out Bakers rushing yards". Doesn't factor into this particular discussion.
The overall broad topic of discussion seems to me to be: How well does a particular QB perform early in his career.
I think that having the record for most TD as a rookie, or winning a championship in your first 3 years fairly well factors into that overall topic.
i agree with you that the statistic cited, "Dan Marino and Baker Mayfield are the only 2 QBs to do yada yada in their first 3 years" is one of those hyper inclusive stats that are sometime cited that can be meaningless. Kind of like saying "Only 3 players in history ever did stugotz: Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, and Schmucky Schwartz.....the implication of which is that Schmucky Schwartz can somehow be equated to the other two (when he clearly cannot).
Here is a stat that I hope that Baker and Marino do not end up together on: Great QBs who never won a Championship.
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Nevertheless, the question was asked...or it was pointed out that a better metric would be: who did the best through their first 48 games. Here is that stat, See the link:
Top Ten in Yards
Mahomes, Warner, Stafford, Luck, Bulger, Marino, Watson, Winston, Cousins, Goff.....Baker is 15th.
Top Ten in TDs:
Mahomes, Warner, Marino, Watson, Luck, Stafford, Palmer, Wentz, Carr, Baker...10th
In some other categories for Baker:
Comp. % 10th; Completions 20th, Attempts: 17th; Yards per comp: 15th; Yards per game 15th, TD% 7th, Rating 10th.
Of course, keep in mind the way the game has changed. All these guys who are tops in TDs and yards in their first 48 games played in the 21st century primarily...except Marino. Note that the likes of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw and others didn't make these lists.
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Another interesting article on QBs in their first 48 games, for stat geeks.
http://www.footballperspective.com/russell-wilson-and-other-quarterbacks-through-48-starts/
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Stats like that, meme's and quotes are.... I hesitate to say 'Inaccurate". So I'll say slanted instead. Either way they attempt to generate hype in a way that is rather misleading. Because instead of going off the first full 3 seasons played, they're going off the first 3 seasons in the NFL period. This discounts multiple good QB's in the the last 12-13 years alone.
so......Baker started week 3 of his rookie year, started all 16 games in 2019, started all 16 games in 2020...so.... it WAS his first three seasons played, he just didn't start the first two.... and still ranks up there with Marino ........isn't that even a bit MORE impressive?
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So.....that is why I gave you more meaningful stats. The rookie TD record and the one on the championships......because that is, after all, what really counts.
Fair to say.
Either of those things were and are irrelevant to this conversation and the stats applied. This would be like me bringing up interception percentage and you going " yeah, but check out Bakers rushing yards". Doesn't factor into this particular discussion.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Jim Kelly was not the #10 overall QB during his era.
I still say Kelly was over rated. Sugar huddle made him.
175 INTs in 160 career games. Not good.
I still say Kelly was over rated. Sugar huddle made him.
K-gun, baby...
Many have forgotten that Jim was a star for the Houston Gamblers in the USFL... shit league, but with some very good teams including Houston's.
The Gamblers employed the "Run n shoot" Offense. As much as any it was the forerunner to the "passing league" we enjoy(?) today.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You say that as if it matters...
I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense.
Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts.
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Marino started only 9 games his rookie year... and appeared in only 2 others.
So.... no...
FYI.... the other 6 'Fins starts were divided between Woodley (5) and Don Strock (2).
So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach.
So..................yes.?
Miami Dolphins (2)
(AFC)
(7–2)Washington Redskins (1)
(NFC)
(8–1)17 27 -
I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense.
Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts.
What I acknowledge is that you seem to have wanted to completely narrow the focus of the conversation to a single narrow statistic....that we both agree was bogus....and didn't make sense. I acknowledge that I attempted to bring some sense into the discussion by providing a much wider scope/point of view to the subject of: What QBs did really well in their early careers.
Don't you think that topic requires a much wider lens?
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