Baker Mayfield

nickers

@hoorta said:

OK, and Joe is making Baker look like Blake Bortels of late... Some folks around here have pretty active imaginations.

Blake Bortles!! ROFL!... Now you've gone too far!!..The kid gets next year to right the ship... Because nobody worth a fuck is coming here... Blake Bortles was garbage from jump street... Baker has a playoff appearance and a victory.. This isnt Carlos Baerga doing roids then watching his talent vanish over night... Jesus...

Browns149

@nickers said:

Blake Bortles!! ROFL!... Now you've gone too far!!..The kid gets next year to right the ship... Because nobody worth a fuck is coming here... Blake Bortles was garbage from jump street... Baker has a playoff appearance and a victory.. This isnt Carlos Baerga doing roids then watching his talent vanish over night... Jesus...

I agree. Blake Bortles is a nothing QB. The guy has a record of 29-49. While Baker At least is a .500 QB at 29-29

I wouldn’t so easily dismiss nobody coming here

If Watson’s legal troubles go away, the Browns better be in on him

Dutch Oven

@nickers said:

Blake Bortles was garbage from jump street... Baker has a playoff appearance and a victory..

Blake Bortles won a division title and two playoff games, including at Pittsburgh, in 2017, and damn near beat New England in the AFC Championship.

Which kind of proves that beating Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh in the playoffs isn't the end-all some here make it out to be.

tiamat63

@dutch-oven said:

Blake Bortles won a division title and two playoff games, including at Pittsburgh, in 2017, and damn near beat New England in the AFC Championship.

Which kind of proves that beating Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh in the playoffs isn't the end-all some here make it out to be.

Oh snaps

tiamat63

The Baker to Burrow comparison only really holds up depending on something crucial - does anyone believe Burrow would throw the same game-losing turnovers that Baker has this season?

Keep in mind, Baker is about to wrap up his 4th full season as a starter. And I'd you include Burrow missing 1/4 of last season, Joe is finishing up his first 1.5 years as a starter. His turnover worthy throws have been cut in half since the start of the season (11 ints first 8 games, 3 since in 7) while Bakers turnover worthy rate has increased.

A hypothetical, but one to ask ourselves.

I'm of the mind that we likely would be +3 in the win category with the fewer turnovers and average play. At minimum likely beating the Steelers at home and the Ravens on the road.

That is the only comparison which matters in this case. Since the start of the 2018 season, no QB in the NFL has thrown more ints than Baker. That is the biggest red flag.

SkippinTurtles

Trade for Tua. Everyone thinks he's a bum. He throws bad picks early in games, gets pissed and wins. Miami wants Watson. A bag of oranges would get Tua. Those idiots love natural disasters and citrus.

nickers

@dutch-oven said:

Blake Bortles won a division title and two playoff games, including at Pittsburgh, in 2017, and damn near beat New England in the AFC Championship.

Which kind of proves that beating Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh in the playoffs isn't the end-all some here make it out to be.

He stunk and is no longer playing...

gumby73

No two QB's need a bigger bounce back game than Ben & Baker...

Ben has played his worse 2 games in 2021, that I've seen him play at KC/ vs. Tenn. ... Titans not much better... Ben's been sacked 10 times in his last 3 games..

@KC 23 of 35 = 159 yards

L

36-10

TEN 16 of 25 = 148 yards

W

19-13

( sure sounds like were going to have some real Nervous Nancy's on this board, if Burrow & Lamar lose prior to this game? : - ) Let's Go #6 !

SdBacker80

@gumby73 said:

No two QB's need a bigger bounce back game than Ben & Baker...

Ben has played his worse 2 games in 2021, that I've seen him play at KC/ vs. Tenn. ... Titans not much better... Ben's been sacked 10 times in his last 3 games..

@KC 23 of 35 = 159 yards

L

36-10

TEN 16 of 25 = 148 yards

W

19-13

( sure sounds like were going to have some real Nervous Nancy's on this board, if Burrow & Lamar lose prior to this game? : - ) Let's Go #6 !

Teams are crowding the line of scrimmage jamming Steeler WRs and bringing pressure up the middle on Ben and essentially challenging the Steeler Oline to hold up and Ben to make throws downfield. I’ve watched too.

I hope we take note on Monday.

SdBacker80

I have to laugh at this Baker vs Burrow comparison. Maybe the NFL makes adjustments to Burrow and he has to adapt/adjust and prove himself but he doesn’t have the same flaws we all talk about with Baker. Right now the comparison is Maserati vs Honda. The Honda is cool if you had a 1998 Pontiac Aztec the past couple decades.

And Burrow would love to have the time he would get behind this line (he’d be better with it). And he has some young WRs that don’t always run the routes correctly (heck see our game Chase is not even close to having any polish in his routes).

gumby73

@sdbacker80 said:

Teams are crowding the line of scrimmage jamming Steeler WRs and bringing pressure up the middle on Ben and essentially challenging the Steeler Oline to hold up and Ben to make throws downfield. I’ve watched too.

I hope we take note on Monday.

You saw the same games I did... Well done!

I really hope our best physical corner is back in Greg Newsome.. We can't let Claypool just get free runs off the LOS...hit this punk cleanly on every snap..

SdBacker80

@gumby73 said:

You saw the same games I did... Well done!

I really hope our best physical corner is back in Greg Newsome.. We can't let Claypool just get free runs off the LOS...hit this punk cleanly on every snap..

Agree!! And We definitely need to rallying and tackle on those WR screens.

calfoxwc

@hoorta said:

I call that utter bullshit. Our O-line is better, Burrow doesn't have pro bowl running back Nick Chubb.

So what? the Bengals Higgins and Boyd are not one iota better talent wise than our Landy, Higgins, and the Peoples guy. I'll even toss in their TE Uzomah, as opposed to our Austin Hooper- the guy who at the time we made the highest paid TE in the NFL? Who's got the better stats? Huh? Difference? A quarterback who happens to know when his TE wide open, uncovered for a gimme touchdown. How many hours you watched the Bengals this year? I'll bet not more than one. And THAT you obdurate WR fixation guy, you seemingly can't get through your thick head. Burrow makes them better, period... Because at this particular point in time, he's orders of magnitudes better than Baker. That's just a damn fact. . And just STOP with the bullshit on high draft picks crap. Please DON'T make me waste my time looking up what round a bunch of the Steelers All-Pro and HOF wide receivers got drafted in.

How convenient you didn't list Ja'Marr Chase. A super star WR. I even mentioned him. The attention he gets makes the other two SECOND ROUND PICKS a hell of a lot better. The Browns DO NOT HAVE ONE. Can you hear me NOW? And I said nothing about olines or comparing TE's. You miss the point AGAIN. The Browns do NOT HAVE A STAR WR.

https://www.sportsline.com/nfl/news/2021-nfl-offensive-rookie-of-year-odds-bengals-jamarr-chase-still-has-shot-of-catching-patriots-mac-jones-for-award/

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/12/28/22854769/bengals-week-16-rookie-stock-report-ravens-jamarr-chase-evan-mcpherson

And you can't be serious. Rashard has 23 catches, 1 TD. Tee has 71 catches, 6 TD's. Higgins isn't good at getting open man to man. He isn't explosive.

and Tyler Boyd has 63 catches, 4 TD's, Peoples-Jones has 28 catches, 3 TD's.

You just did another drunken mexican hat dance trying to smart off. Having a superstar WR like Ja'marr Chase helps the other wr's get OPEN.

So, go ahead. You show all of us that many times when Baker didn't throw to HIggins when he was wide open. We'll wait.

calfoxwc

Please DON'T make me waste my time looking up what round a bunch of the Steelers All-Pro and HOF wide receivers got drafted in. Hoorta

**************************************

and another thing. JuJu was drafted in the second round. They got a steal in Claypool. But Claypool has been quieter by a lot, even had ZERO CATCHES just recently vs Tenn.

Want to know why? What is the difference? same qb.

It's because Claypool has a lot tougher time because JuJu is on INJURED RESERVE.

Again, all I'm saying, is that the Browns need a true, dynamic lead #1 wr. And generally, those come up in the first and second rounds. The Browns haven't drafted a wr in the first round since Corey Coleman. A star #1 wr requires a lot of attention - like Ja'marr Chase.

btw, even in some the fine work Tiam did - every single wr of the Browns was completely totally covered. When Landry finally got open over the middle, it was too late. Not a knock on Landry, but he gets attention that would ordinarily do to a #1 star receiver. If the Browns had a Ja'Marr chase, do you honestly think it would not help Landry?

Icecube

Zombo said:

Here is a couple "factoids" for you Larry:

1. Baltimore was missing 25 players. Shut up, and let that sink in.

2. As for owning the Bungles, we've won 6 of 7 contests in the Baker era, Baker is 3-0 versus Burrow, and the Browns have scored 113 points against the Bungle defense in those games, including a 41-16 bashing last month. I'm pretty sure you didn't miss that one.

How do you get gift wrapped the job that is already yours?

He's on year five of his staerting QB contract next year, you can hope and pray he fails, but I think you're going to be highly disappointed.

z

When/if Baker heals up some, he should play better, but will healing correct his inability to find the open man? I doubt it. Baker is who he is: a sparky, fired up player who uses criticism as fuel. But, this is the NFL; that alone only gets you so far. If you can't develop the skill to see the whole field and find the open man, you will not become a good or great QB. You just won't ever get there. And when it comes down to crunch time, Baker has proven he will go bust and F up. How many times have we seen it? How many do we need to?

calfoxwc

Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver ...

https://www.msn.com › en-us › sports › nfl › browns-poor-return-on-investment-at-wide-receiver-impossible-to-ignore-after-loss-to-steelers › ar-AAQav7y

The Cleveland Browns have been living a lie at wide receiver for no less than two years and hoping a healthy Odell Beckham would finally deliver the difference maker they have sought.

"

So if the Steelers were putting their effort into stopping those two, other players needed to step up and take advantage of opportunities. That unfortunately did not happen. After not dropping a pass the entire 2020 season, Rashard Higgins registered one of the team's six in this game. He also had a false start penalty. D'Ernest Johnson dropped a pair of passes. And Jarvis Landry, who many thought was the missing ingredient in the offense, had a false start, two drops and lost a fumble. He also caught five passes for 65 yards on ten targets.

Landry missed four games after a sprained MCL, then came back against the Denver Broncos, where he had 37 yards receiving on five catches out of eight targets. He also dropped a pass and then left the game after twisting his knee again.

That doesn't make Landry a bad receiver, but he's not saving this team from its mediocrity at the wide receiver position either. He's an extremely well paid average receiver that has been hailed a hero because of his leadership, reliability and toughness. There is no questioning his leadership or toughness, but the reliability has always been overstated.

Landry makes some incredible catches, but he also drops passes. He has always dropped his share of passes with the Browns.

The bigger problem for Landry in a game like this one against the Steelers is this is the exact game where he's supposed to thrive; facing a heavy zone team, where he can find holes, settle in space and make catches. He did that, but he also made critical errors that contributed in the team's loss along with miscues from other players on that side of the ball.

Landry is going to struggle against heavy man teams as he did in the playoffs against the Kansas City Chiefs. In the offseason, he got slimmer and tried to maximize his quickness to help, but the injuries he's currently dealing with may have rendered that a wash at least for the time being."

***************************************************************

And Higgins isn't good at getting open vs heavy man to man defenses at all. Last game - Schwartz got his first TD. He is very, very fast and explosive. Landry has only 1 TD for the season.

They do not have a legit star #1 WR

tiamat63

@calfoxwc said:

btw, even in some the fine work Tiam did - every single wr of the Browns was completely totally covered. When Landry finally got open over the middle, it was too late

Very rarely does any receiver win so dominantly and immediately off the line that it's snap and throw. So you scratch off routes based on coverage that you read vs coverage you expected vs play design. You go with the routes, post snap sight adjustments and throws that beat the diagnosed defense.

So what about this screen shot is...

- "completely covered" ?

- "too late" ?

Patterns take time to develop and for receivers to win, and sometimes even re-win the route.

Pocket is clean. Landry has made himself open.

Throwing to your best receiver lined up in the slot against 2 man is about the most popular and effective way of doing so.

Edit: my questions are rhetorical and don't need response. That's NFL open and NFL clean. It is a failure on the QB to get the ball out, on time and accurately, to the route that best beats this coverage.

It happens with any QB from time to time. Yes, even Brady and Breesy. However those moments are exponentially more the exception than the rule. Both QB's have made a living on coming up clutch, game winning drives and things as simple as consistently moving the chains. To the opposite, Baker has made it a habit of missing or making poor reads, choices and throws.

The former are Superbowl winners and future 1st ballot HoF players. I will give Baker a pass should he ever rise to that level.

calfoxwc

@tiamat63 said:

It happens with any QB from time to time. Yes, even Brady and Breesy. However those moments are exponentially more the exception than the rule. Both QB's have made a living on coming up clutch, game winning drives and things as simple as consistently moving the chains. To the opposite, Baker has made it a habit of missing or making poor reads, choices and throws.

The former are Superbowl winners and future 1st ballot HoF players. I will give Baker a pass should he ever rise to that level.

Since you bring up Brady - a lot of his success has been Gronkowski. Baker doesn't have a Gronk, either.

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/7006/what-does-rob-gronkowski-s-injury-mean-for-tom-brady

"Based on our Net Expected Points (NEP) metrics, Brady had a very ordinary season, posting his lowest Passing NEP (68.71), Passing NEP per play (0.10), and Success Rate (47.08%) since 2007. Of the 39 quarterbacks to drop back at least 200 times, Brady ranked 9th in Passing NEP, 10th in Passing NEP per play, and 12th in Passing Success Rate making him appear average.

Why the drop in numbers? Well, he played nine games without Gronkowski. In those contests, Brady's statistics plummeted, as he completed 198 passes on 344 attempts for 2,138 yards, 12 touchdowns, and 6 interceptions. These numbers extrapolate to 3,801 yards, 21 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions over a 16 game pace. Again, it's good, but it's not Tom Brady-good.

In his seven games, Gronkowski posted 39 receptions for 592 yards and 4 touchdowns on 67 targets, which extrapolates to 89 receptions for 1,353 yards and 9 touchdowns on 153 targets. In these games, Brady completed 182 passes on 284 attempts for 2,205 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 5 interceptions.

Again in 2014, Brady started the year poorly as Gronkowski was still recovering from his injuries in the previous playoffs.

Brady finished 2014 with 604 drop backs leading to 373 completions for 4,109 yards, 33 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 582 passing attempts. While this was improvement from 2013, he struggled early when Gronkowski was recovering.

Over the first 4 games of 2014, Brady dropped back 147 times, completing 81 passes for 791 yards, 4 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions on 137 attempts. Gronkowski was of little help then, as he only had 13 receptions for 147 yards and 3 touchdowns on 26 targets.

At the time, Brady ranked 33rd in Passing NEP (-12.15), 32nd in Passing NEP per play (-0.08), and 32nd in Success Rate (41.50) out of 36 quarterbacks to have at least 50 drop backs.

With Gronkowski fully healthy, Brady finished the year as the league's fifth best quarterback, per NEP, while Gronk ended the season as the best tight end within the same metric.

In essence, it's clear, and not surprising: When Gronkowski is healthy, we see the best Tom Brady. When he's not, Brady, of late, has simply been an above average starter."

************************************************************

So, what I'm explaining is that even Brady's performance plummets without a star to receive his passes.

hoorta

@calfoxwc said:

Please DON'T make me waste my time looking up what round a bunch of the Steelers All-Pro and HOF wide receivers got drafted in. Hoorta

**************************************

and another thing. JuJu was drafted in the second round. They got a steal in Claypool. But Claypool has been quieter by a lot, even had ZERO CATCHES just recently vs Tenn.

Want to know why? What is the difference? same qb.

It's because Claypool has a lot tougher time because JuJu is on INJURED RESERVE.

Again, all I'm saying, is that the Browns need a true, dynamic lead #1 wr. And generally, those come up in the first and second rounds. The Browns haven't drafted a wr in the first round since Corey Coleman. A star #1 wr requires a lot of attention - like Ja'marr Chase.

btw, even in some the fine work Tiam did - every single wr of the Browns was completely totally covered. When Landry finally got open over the middle, it was too late. Not a knock on Landry, but he gets attention that would ordinarily do to a #1 star receiver. If the Browns had a Ja'Marr chase, do you honestly think it would not help Landry?

John Stallworth 4th round, Hines Ward 3rd round, Antonio Brown 6th round... Tia shows you don't know what you're talking about in regards to NFL "open".

Just stop... Because a WR is drafted high is no guarantee he's going to be great. Gee, I thought we did have a stud #1 wr in OBJ, and he did squat.

All the Browns need is for Baker to start playing like the #1 overall pick, which of late- he isn't... NFL.com had Joe at #4, Baker at #21.. There is no explaining away how limited the Browns' passing attack remains. Baker’s location is spotty, as he finished 2-of-9 for 21 yards, one score and three picks on throws over 10 yards Saturday, per Next Gen Stats. When Mayfield isn’t accurate, he’s not making up for it with any other attributes.

Dutch Oven

@hoorta said:

When Mayfield isn’t accurate, he’s not making up for it with any other attributes.

As Buddy Ryan's son with the foot fetish said last Sunday on the ESPN pregame show, being short and having average athleticism is not a recipe for a very good starting QB.