Tell me again why Browns Stadium shouldn't have roof

[hoorta]

PS, yes I'm aware that 25 years or so is currently the shelf life of an NFL stadium. Doesn't have to be though, if it's done right. IIRC Arrowhead in KC is 50 years old, and a great venue to watch a game. Unfortunately, First Energy was built quickly and on the cheap, so it probably is approaching it's expiration date. 

Just MHO though- those expecting a billion bucks worth of $100 dollar bills to start raining down from the heavens to build a new stadium aren't being very realistic.  

[hoorta]

@canton-dawg said:

I like your idea, but a domed stadium would have to compete against the Cleveland Convention Center, The IX, and Rocket Mortgage Field House.

But... We can't have tractor pulls or rodeos at those other venues.  ?

[Canton Dawg]

@hoorta said:

But... We can't have tractor pulls or rodeos at those other venues.  ?

Wrong, those are typically held at Rocket Mortgage Field House.

Along with Disney on Ice, WWE, and various concerts throughout the year.

And if that was sarcasm…put it in pink. ?

[mjp28]

@hoorta said:

But... We can't have tractor pulls or rodeos at those other venues.  ?

Just curious,   why no tractor pulls or rodeos in Cleveland ?   They are all over the USA. 

Now a reality check  a.  Dome in Cleveland ?    b. Hell will freeze over.  C. Both.  D.  Neither.   

So do they have a shot ?

[hoorta]

@mjp28 said:

Just curious,   why no tractor pulls or rodeos in Cleveland ?   They are all over the USA. 

Now a reality check  a.  Dome in Cleveland ?    b. He'll will freeze over.  C. Both.  D.  Neither.   

So do they have a shot ?

TBD...  and probably not in our lifetime regarding a Dome. Here's the reality check. First Energy cost close to $600 million in today's dollars, and it was stretch to find the money. You tell me how Cleveland is going to be able to dig up four or five times that to build a domed pleasure palace.  

[mjp28]

@hoorta said:

TBD...  and probably not in our lifetime regarding a Dome. Here's the reality check. First Energy cost close to $600 million in today's dollars, and it was stretch to find the money. You tell me how Cleveland is going to be able to dig up four or five times that to build a domed pleasure palace.  

You are correct.   If they didn't do this 20, 30 or more years ago they might have missed their shot at a dome by lake Erie I'm afraid  ..... unless some new leader can come in and put it together. 

Just before the SUPER BOWL?? in Cleveland  I'm afraid.   Oh well  .....  a good idea that may never happen.    Who knows now or when.

[syd]

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

I have never gone to a game or not gone to a game because of the weather or because of the fucking stadium.

If either of these things influence you seeing a football game you are not a fan, you are a cuunnt.

Who TF cares about this bullshit?

Hey Larry, we better not get tickets for next year's Steeler game in December. It might be cold and snow.

Who TF thinks stupid shit like this?

i just wore a heavy jacket

[hoorta]

@syd said:

i just wore a heavy jacket

Part of it is mental, the other part is being willing to shell out money to have proper cold weather gear in your posession. If you notice my sig line, I've done a fair share of cold weather camping and mountaineering. Including a couple days at the Sheldon Cabin on Denali. (see image below, when you really want to get away from it all)  I did notice it was 25 degrees the other day when I got back from my bike ride. 

Shit, one of the documentaries I've seen on Mount Everest climbs, those guys were at Camp Two at 22,000 feet, it was 20 below wind chill at night, and they were acting like they were at a Boy Scout picnic. 

FWIW, my Alaska pal has told me you can tolerate -40 below as long as there's no wind. The saying up there is "wind kills".

[Vagitron]

Real grass, although I believe there are methods to grow grass indoors. Turf is awful. I can’t imagine a time where the Steelers play indoors and frankly I feel the same about the browns. It’s kind of built into their football dna. 

[hoorta]

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Larry you were going to the stadium in the ice and cold even before you were a mountain man. We went to the games because that's what we do

Well yes, I was at Red Right 88... And I well remember a Rams game at old Municipal where it was so cold we had beer slushies.  But a lot of the serious climbs I've done- Mount Elbert in Colorado, the Grand Teton and Gannett Peak in Wyoming were in the late 1970s.   

As one of the guys (from Pittsburgh no less) that we hiked out of the Bridger Wilderness with... Yeah, nice August weather in the high country 30 degrees and light snow said, and I'll never forget it.. "What I consider a vacation, most folks would think it was severe torture."   

[ballpeen]

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

[mjp28]

@ballpeen said:

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

I try to think of all sides of anything be it a problem,  challenge,  game or whatever and then reduce it down to the most important parts or key points. 

Here traditional limited use old school hard ass open air venue (all the +/- etc.)  versus a modern new virtually unlimited  use dome or retractable roof facility. 

The use, cost (always a BIG item) land procurement,  tax issues, parking all the variables that you can dream of here.  The successes and failures of similar ventures.   Any political factors of more interest now than before.   They go into the big business crock pot of ideas ...... and then the final decisions begin to emerge and let the billionaires take their sides and see what comes of it ..... or not. 

  Another generation lost ?   We'll see what happens........

[Dutch Oven]

@ballpeen said:

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

One of the biggest myths concerning the Browns is that they are traditionally a smash-mouth football team.

At their most successful, the Browns have been a balanced, if not a team that is pass-prolific. 

On defense, I think of smash-mouth, physical teams having HOF Linebackers who'd tear your head off. George, Butkus and Singletary for the Bears. Nitschke for the Packers. Lambert for the Steelers. The Browns really have no LB in their history that really fits that mold. 

Another big myth is that the Browns have parlayed bad weather as some kind of advantage. That's categorically untrue. Look at their playoff record at home. Not exactly the Broncos at Mile High.  

[Bob806]

@dutch-oven said:

One of the biggest myths concerning the Browns is that they are traditionally a smash-mouth football team.

At their most successful, the Browns have been a balanced, if not a team that is pass-prolific. 

On defense, I think of smash-mouth, physical teams having HOF Linebackers who'd tear your head off. George, Butkus and Singletary for the Bears. Nitschke for the Packers. Lambert for the Steelers. The Browns really have no LB in their history that really fits that mold. 

Yep, the last time the Browns had any semblence of a great LB core was 1994. Truly maddening- and we get to see our rivals with all star LBs take over games way too many times.

The Browns have this small window of about 5 years to get this ship righted IMHO, before any "new stadium talk" will gain traction. Pretty much coincides with this Watson gamble....if the Browns don't capitalize on it, remain sub .500 uh oh.

Sorry fans, for the 1st time in my Browns fandom I wimped out and stayed home for the Saints game due to the weather. I've attended well over 300 home games since 1972, I wasn't going after shoveling the drifts off my driveway with 35 mph winds & gusts higher than that. Despite that, I'm anti-dome even though it would be "good for the region."

Regarding the dome vs open air, I worry the general public will be against funding it, pretty much rightfully so. Which raises my concern of an Alex Spanos/Stan Kroenke situation. One of the biggest complaints among the residents of the City of Cleveland is the neighborhoods have been ignored and projects such as Gateway, Euclid Corridor, & Ohio City developments have taken precedence. Oops, bordering on politics, I'll stop now lol.

Happy New Year everybody, Go Browns!!!!

[Orion]

Thanks for the responses and thoughts.   

My original thinking of this thread was for football home field advantage reasoning, with a caveat that money was no object (which, of course, it always is).

We have one person who hikes and climbs mountains like a billy-goat.  Good luck filling a stadium with outdoor adventurers.  Of course there's the stoned and sloshed bunch who'll have their shirts off.  But, I'm talking normal, everyday, regular people (que Joe Walsh Ordinary Average Guy) who wants to go and enjoy watching his/her favorite football team.  Key word, 'enjoy'.  Yes, it won't be as enjoyable if the team gets beat as expected...but would more people go to late season games if they didn't have to endure being subjected to lousy weather for 4 or 5 hours?    (rhetorical question)

[calfoxwc]

It's a tough question - I think there aren't enough folks who know how to dress for the weather to be safe at the worst of frozen cold snowy games. Dad and I went to a game that was really frozen, roaring wind, a lot of snow, etc - and we had a great time. There was so few fans there, most of us simply moved down to the first level of seats.

   To me, a retractable roof would be a great thing for the really tough weather on the lake front. Why it was not designed to have one added years later, beats me.

  So many go to games with tennis shoes, thin coats etc and leave by halftime or sooner. And the elderly, who don't get around as well anymore - it would save them from injuries in bad weather.

   I always loved the fresh air and the weather. But to build ANOTHER STADIUM somewhere else? baloney. Leave it to the haslams to move the team to Tennessee for nicer weather..... wouldn't surprise me at all at this point.

[mjp28]

Question  :  how many true home bad weather games do the Cleveland BROWNS have every year ?  Or decade ?

The answer(s) might suprise you.   There are sites that show the kickoff time weather for every  BROWNS or any NFL team.

It's the somewhat rare bad weather  "blizzard games"  that get the attention. 

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.   

And the hotels, motels, restaurants etc don't want to hear bad weather gameday.   Northern is still a tough sell, people want to vacation in Jan/ Feb in warm weather.

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

[Bob806]

@mjp28 said:

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.  

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

That's the thing, nobody wants to pay for it.

The residents of Cuyahoga County, for example voted in the "sin tax" on alcohol & tobacco. The other 87 counties didn't pay into that, even though quite a few of those residents have enjoyed time at Jacobs Field/Progressive Field & CLE Browns Stadium/First Energy Stadium. Particularly the NE Ohio region counties.

A public/private finance solution should be the answer. What % is the question.

[hoorta]

@mjp28 said:

Question  :  how many true home bad weather games do the Cleveland BROWNS have every year ?  Or decade ?

The answer(s) might surprise you.   There are sites that show the kickoff time weather for every  BROWNS or any NFL team.

It's the somewhat rare bad weather  "blizzard games"  that get the attention. 

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.   

And the hotels, motels, restaurants etc don't want to hear bad weather gameday.   Northern is still a tough sell, people want to vacation in Jan/ Feb in warm weather.

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

So please... Just SHOVE the wistful rationalization  Crap "we'll (Cleveland) NEVER get to host a Super Bowl Up your ass.  That's a one in a 20 year make that 40  year proposition...  Detroit...  1982... AND Counting...  

Green Bay will never get a Super Bowl... Ditto #3 metropolis in America, CHICAGO will never get one either- and that city has one HELL of a lot more infrastructure to host one FYI. Should I go on to list the other cities you can scratch off of the "once in a lifetime" piss poor argument as to having a Dome?  Didn't think so..... 

1001 other benefits? I'll bet you can't list more than 15. Hyperbole much?  Cost benefit analysis... Yeah, retractable roof Lucas Oil might cost about a billion or so today if you're lucky...  And HELL will freeze over if you're hallucinating the NFL combine would ever move out of Indianapolis to Cleveland.  Cleveland has gotten a bunch of "national" events, including the NFL Draft, a major political convention, and we didn't need to spend a billion dollars to get them either....       

[Dutch Oven]

@hoorta said:

So please... Just SHOVE the wistful rationalization  Crap "we'll (Cleveland) NEVER get to host a Super Bowl Up your ass.  That's a one in a 20 year make that 40  year proposition...  Detroit...  1982... AND Counting...  

Green Bay will never get a Super Bowl... Ditto #3 metropolis in America, CHICAGO will never get one either- and that city has one HELL of a lot more infrastructure to host one FYI. Should I go on to list the other cities you can scratch off of the "once in a lifetime" piss poor argument as to having a Dome?  Didn't think so..... 

1001 other benefits? I'll bet you can't list more than 15. Hyperbole much?  Cost benefit analysis... Yeah, retractable roof Lucas Oil might cost about a billion or so today if you're lucky...  And HELL will freeze over if you're hallucinating the NFL combine would ever move out of Indianapolis to Cleveland.  Cleveland has gotten a bunch of "national" events, including the NFL Draft, a major political convention, and we didn't need to spend a billion dollars to get them either....       

For someone who lives nowhere near Cleveland, and for someone who admits most likely won't be around when a new stadium is built, this topic consistently fires you up like no other ?