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  • FlugelF Flugel

    @ballpeen said:

    I never said we shouldn't draft another DT, or any other position for that matter.

    First, I don't trust rookies to make any real impact.   

    Second, I don't see the room on the roster to keep 8 drafted rookies.  I'd rather see a trade up(maybe to get that DT) and some trades to pick up a couple of players for next year.

    Do you really expect to see a 5th round rookie making any real big impact?  They might, but I wouldn't expect it.  I don't think Stefasnski wants to stake his job on the hope some 4th or 5th rounder is going to step right in and make a big difference.

    LOL.  I know you didn't say that - I just liked your post because I think a lot of us are thinking about this.  

    Your pov about trusting rookies to make an impact is probably pretty popular especially considering we're only drafting about 8 guys.  My train of thought about this is we've kept guys like Schwartz, Elliott and others longer than we should have.  We're in last place right? I'd rather give new people a shot like the rookies and recent veteran acquisitions we got through FA and trades.  We have made trades and one gave up a 2nd round pick doing so.  This will be our 2nd year in a row entering the draft in round 3 so I think you're safe that all 8 draftees won't make the active roster.  Some will be on the practice squad.

    Do I expect to see a 5th round pick make any impact?  Are you telling me the Chiefs shouldn't have given Tyreek Hill a chance? I think you still have to build through the draft and supplement needs through FA.  Eaarnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick.  Brian Sipe was a 13th round pick and he's the ONLY NFL MVP we've had this side of 1970.  

    I look at a team like Seattle last year that had 5 rookies starting on a roster that wasn't supposed to make the playoffs or come anywhere near the post season.

    @flugel said:

    LOL.  I know you didn't say that - I just liked your post because I think a lot of us are thinking about this.  

    Your pov about trusting rookies to make an impact is probably pretty popular especially considering we're only drafting about 8 guys.  My train of thought about this is we've kept guys like Schwartz, Elliott and others longer than we should have.  We're in last place right? I'd rather give new people a shot like the rookies and recent veteran acquisitions we got through FA and trades.  We have made trades and one gave up a 2nd round pick doing so.  This will be our 2nd year in a row entering the draft in round 3 so I think you're safe that all 8 draftees won't make the active roster.  Some will be on the practice squad.

    Do I expect to see a 5th round pick make any impact?  Are you telling me the Chiefs shouldn't have given Tyreek Hill a chance? I think you still have to build through the draft and supplement needs through FA.  Eaarnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick.  Brian Sipe was a 13th round pick and he's the ONLY NFL MVP we've had this side of 1970.  

    I look at a team like Seattle last year that had 5 rookies starting on a roster that wasn't supposed to make the playoffs or come anywhere near the post season.

    Guys like Schwartz are already replaced.  My count has us signing 13 FA players.  Two were existing players...Taki and Pocic.  That is 11 added players, most all if not all will make the team.  They are going to be replacing somebody.

    Don't make it sound like I want to keep crappy players.  I am glad they are gone.  I see room for maybe 4 rookie players.  That is why I would like to maybe move up to get a better player and trade back to pick up a pick or two next year.  We will still be down a 1st rounder and we won't get the extra 3rd rounder for the executive the Vikings hired.

    So go ahead and throw out all the Tyreek Hills you want.  You known damn good and well that isn't the norm, so maybe we can try to be realistic about exactly what you are drafting from the 5th round on.  We have drafted dozens of 6th rounders who weren't worth a crap.  So have all other teams.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    @flugel said:

    LOL.  I know you didn't say that - I just liked your post because I think a lot of us are thinking about this.  

    Your pov about trusting rookies to make an impact is probably pretty popular especially considering we're only drafting about 8 guys.  My train of thought about this is we've kept guys like Schwartz, Elliott and others longer than we should have.  We're in last place right? I'd rather give new people a shot like the rookies and recent veteran acquisitions we got through FA and trades.  We have made trades and one gave up a 2nd round pick doing so.  This will be our 2nd year in a row entering the draft in round 3 so I think you're safe that all 8 draftees won't make the active roster.  Some will be on the practice squad.

    Do I expect to see a 5th round pick make any impact?  Are you telling me the Chiefs shouldn't have given Tyreek Hill a chance? I think you still have to build through the draft and supplement needs through FA.  Eaarnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick.  Brian Sipe was a 13th round pick and he's the ONLY NFL MVP we've had this side of 1970.  

    I look at a team like Seattle last year that had 5 rookies starting on a roster that wasn't supposed to make the playoffs or come anywhere near the post season.

    Guys like Schwartz are already replaced.  My count has us signing 13 FA players.  Two were existing players...Taki and Pocic.  That is 11 added players, most all if not all will make the team.  They are going to be replacing somebody.

    Don't make it sound like I want to keep crappy players.  I am glad they are gone.  I see room for maybe 4 rookie players.  That is why I would like to maybe move up to get a better player and trade back to pick up a pick or two next year.  We will still be down a 1st rounder and we won't get the extra 3rd rounder for the executive the Vikings hired.

    So go ahead and throw out all the Tyreek Hills you want.  You known damn good and well that isn't the norm, so maybe we can try to be realistic about exactly what you are drafting from the 5th round on.  We have drafted dozens of 6th rounders who weren't worth a crap.  So have all other teams.

    @ballpeen said:

    Guys like Schwartz are already replaced.  My count has us signing 13 FA players.  Two were existing players...Taki and Pocic.  That is 11 added players, most all if not all will make the team.  They are going to be replacing somebody.

    Don't make it sound like I want to keep crappy players.  I am glad they are gone.  I see room for maybe 4 rookie players.  That is why I would like to maybe move up to get a better player and trade back to pick up a pick or two next year.  We will still be down a 1st rounder and we won't get the extra 3rd rounder for the executive the Vikings hired.

    So go ahead and throw out all the Tyreek Hills you want.  You known damn good and well that isn't the norm, so maybe we can try to be realistic about exactly what you are drafting from the 5th round on.  We have drafted dozens of 6th rounders who weren't worth a crap.  So have all other teams.

    I don't think he's arguing with ya Peen.. You both made salient points..

    Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
  • nickersN nickers

    @ballpeen said:

    Guys like Schwartz are already replaced.  My count has us signing 13 FA players.  Two were existing players...Taki and Pocic.  That is 11 added players, most all if not all will make the team.  They are going to be replacing somebody.

    Don't make it sound like I want to keep crappy players.  I am glad they are gone.  I see room for maybe 4 rookie players.  That is why I would like to maybe move up to get a better player and trade back to pick up a pick or two next year.  We will still be down a 1st rounder and we won't get the extra 3rd rounder for the executive the Vikings hired.

    So go ahead and throw out all the Tyreek Hills you want.  You known damn good and well that isn't the norm, so maybe we can try to be realistic about exactly what you are drafting from the 5th round on.  We have drafted dozens of 6th rounders who weren't worth a crap.  So have all other teams.

    I don't think he's arguing with ya Peen.. You both made salient points..

    @nickers said:

    I don't think he's arguing with ya Peen.. You both made salient points..

    @flugel said:

    LOL.  I know you didn't say that - I just liked your post because I think a lot of us are thinking about this.  

    Your pov about trusting rookies to make an impact is probably pretty popular especially considering we're only drafting about 8 guys.  My train of thought about this is we've kept guys like Schwartz, Elliott and others longer than we should have.  We're in last place right? I'd rather give new people a shot like the rookies and recent veteran acquisitions we got through FA and trades.  We have made trades and one gave up a 2nd round pick doing so.  This will be our 2nd year in a row entering the draft in round 3 so I think you're safe that all 8 draftees won't make the active roster.  Some will be on the practice squad.

    Do I expect to see a 5th round pick make any impact?  Are you telling me the Chiefs shouldn't have given Tyreek Hill a chance? I think you still have to build through the draft and supplement needs through FA.  Eaarnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick.  Brian Sipe was a 13th round pick and he's the ONLY NFL MVP we've had this side of 1970.  

    I look at a team like Seattle last year that had 5 rookies starting on a roster that wasn't supposed to make the playoffs or come anywhere near the post season.

    Cool.  Also, my earlier point doesn't include the trade we made for Moore.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    👍

  • I saw somewhere where Berry wanted to trade for Moore last year.

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
    OrionO 1 Reply
    👍
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    I don't see 8 rookies, but money is a consideration when looking at the long term health of the salary cap.

    I suppose it is possible.  That said I would still like to see some draft capitol moved up or go ahead and bank some for next year.

    @ballpeen said:

    I don't see 8 rookies, but money is a consideration when looking at the long term health of the salary cap.

    I suppose it is possible.  That said I would still like to see some draft capitol moved up or go ahead and bank some for next year.

    took 1 move up with Bears to #53.. 

    We don't have a 4th next season? or

    could get to Bills #59 (-3rd & -4th) to cover a 5th &/or 6th position?

    • 53
      Jack Campbell
      LB | Iowa
      A
    • 98
      Jammie Robinson
      S | Florida State
      A+
    • 126
      Parker Washington
      WR | Penn State
      A+
    • 140
      Byron Young (AL)
      DL | Alabama
      A+
    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
    FlugelF T 2 Replies
    👍

  • The RAS posted above for those two end-of-the-bench WR's has one thing in common.. The reason those guys are barely rosterable isn't their deep/long speed but rather their inability to beat coverage.  The red for both at the bottom [3-cone and shuttle] describes their lack of quickness both into and out of their breaks.

    This means that no matter the height of the CB's covering them.. those guys won't be open at any point on the field unless somebody falls down.

    For contrast, Elijah Moore's RAS is elite in those areas.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
  • gumby73G gumby73

    @ballpeen said:

    I don't see 8 rookies, but money is a consideration when looking at the long term health of the salary cap.

    I suppose it is possible.  That said I would still like to see some draft capitol moved up or go ahead and bank some for next year.

    took 1 move up with Bears to #53.. 

    We don't have a 4th next season? or

    could get to Bills #59 (-3rd & -4th) to cover a 5th &/or 6th position?

    • 53
      Jack Campbell
      LB | Iowa
      A
    • 98
      Jammie Robinson
      S | Florida State
      A+
    • 126
      Parker Washington
      WR | Penn State
      A+
    • 140
      Byron Young (AL)
      DL | Alabama
      A+

    @gumby73 said:

    took 1 move up with Bears to #53.. 

    We don't have a 4th next season? or

    could get to Bills #59 (-3rd & -4th) to cover a 5th &/or 6th position?

    • 53
      Jack Campbell
      LB | Iowa
      A
    • 98
      Jammie Robinson
      S | Florida State
      A+
    • 126
      Parker Washington
      WR | Penn State
      A+
    • 140
      Byron Young (AL)
      DL | Alabama
      A+

    Looks GREAT Gumbs. I HATE the thought of starting a second consecutive draft in the 3rd round; so your mock draft would be awesome!

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    👍

  • A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    S ballpeenB 2 Replies
    👍
  • OrionO Orion

    I saw somewhere where Berry wanted to trade for Moore last year.

    @orion said:

    I saw somewhere where Berry wanted to trade for Moore last year.

    I should also say that I saw somewhere that the Jets thought he was a PITA.

    I assume that he has a clean slate here with us fans.  But we'll be finding out if Berry was correct all along about him.....

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
    ❤
  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    @dutch-oven said:

    A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    I’d wear it too.  He has ball skills like  fellow “we ares”Juwon Johnson and Jahan Dotson- both have performed well at the next level.  I think he’s got another elite skill set He’s going to be IMO a YAC machine and turn the pitch and catch game into extra yards.  
     

    Interesting side point his cousin…our backup QB Josh Dobbs

    FlugelF 1 Reply
    👍
  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

    A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    @dutch-oven said:

    A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    Naaa, you only have to wear that if you are the guy who actually drafts the player.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • S SdBacker80

    @dutch-oven said:

    A mock draft of Campbell and Parker Washington is going to get a big thumbs up from me.

    But as the guy who kind of started the Parker Washington Bandwagon, now I'm nervous that he's going to flame out and I'll have to wear my love for him like an albatross ?

    I’d wear it too.  He has ball skills like  fellow “we ares”Juwon Johnson and Jahan Dotson- both have performed well at the next level.  I think he’s got another elite skill set He’s going to be IMO a YAC machine and turn the pitch and catch game into extra yards.  
     

    Interesting side point his cousin…our backup QB Josh Dobbs

    @sdbacker80 said:

    I’d wear it too.  He has ball skills like  fellow “we ares”Juwon Johnson and Jahan Dotson- both have performed well at the next level.  I think he’s got another elite skill set He’s going to be IMO a YAC machine and turn the pitch and catch game into extra yards.  
     

    Interesting side point his cousin…our backup QB Josh Dobbs

    Me too!  

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • I know Campbell has gotten a lot of early talk.

    I was thinking he would be a higher pick. Why would he be valued as a 3rd-4th round pick?

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    I know Campbell has gotten a lot of early talk.

    I was thinking he would be a higher pick. Why would he be valued as a 3rd-4th round pick?

    @ballpeen said:

    I know Campbell has gotten a lot of early talk.

    I was thinking he would be a higher pick. Why would he be valued as a 3rd-4th round pick?

    Gumbs listed him at #53, which would be a trade up.  

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    sydS 1 Reply

  • Morning!

    off to work, Have some fun.. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator click start at top/pause anytime to purpose trade

    Jack Campbell was the highest rated player once before taken at #53. #98 has a bunch of position help of choice

    Edge & DT's of Mazi Smith or Benton have options too.

    You'll be offered a bunch of trades.. next years or move downs.. 

    Might be a topic to start elsewhere... Mock Mania.. plenty out there 

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
    ❤
  • gumby73G gumby73

    @ballpeen said:

    I don't see 8 rookies, but money is a consideration when looking at the long term health of the salary cap.

    I suppose it is possible.  That said I would still like to see some draft capitol moved up or go ahead and bank some for next year.

    took 1 move up with Bears to #53.. 

    We don't have a 4th next season? or

    could get to Bills #59 (-3rd & -4th) to cover a 5th &/or 6th position?

    • 53
      Jack Campbell
      LB | Iowa
      A
    • 98
      Jammie Robinson
      S | Florida State
      A+
    • 126
      Parker Washington
      WR | Penn State
      A+
    • 140
      Byron Young (AL)
      DL | Alabama
      A+

    @gumby73 said:

    took 1 move up with Bears to #53.. 

    We don't have a 4th next season? or

    could get to Bills #59 (-3rd & -4th) to cover a 5th &/or 6th position?

    • 53
      Jack Campbell
      LB | Iowa
      A
    • 98
      Jammie Robinson
      S | Florida State
      A+
    • 126
      Parker Washington
      WR | Penn State
      A+
    • 140
      Byron Young (AL)
      DL | Alabama
      A+

    Side bet for a Coca Cola that Young is still there at 140. I say gone by then.

  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    I think we might see a trade up, were, who knows?  I also think we will see an effort to trade back to gain picks next year.

    One would assume all of the guys signed to FA deals will probably make the team.  Maybe more on point is almost all will probably make the team.  I don't think we signed them with the intent to turn around and cut them.  I would imagine most got some sort of bonus to sign.

    With that thought in place, how many roster spots will be open? The Fa's will be taking somebodys job.  A few can be slotted in to positions where we lost a player, but not all.  With 8 draft choices, it will be like throwing away draft picks.  The smart move is to push a few of those in to next year as well as some to move up this year.  Trading a pick this year for a pick next year usually brings some sort of premium.  It may not be a full round of value depending on where people think the picks might fall, but a 4th and 5th this year can become a 3rd next year.

    @ballpeen said:

    I think we might see a trade up, were, who knows?  I also think we will see an effort to trade back to gain picks next year.

    There is a buzz that the Browns could very well be trading. 

    As much as I'm never one that likes to hear the phrase "next year" - last I knew, we only had 4 draft picks scheduled for next year.  That might have changed - I'm not sure.  

    Bill Belichick was once asked about a get together he had with Jimmy Johnson fishing, ironically. I say that because aside from enjoying the relaxing activity on the water - Bill was fishing for info about the draft.  Johnson informed he saw draft picks as valuable capital toward building your team.  Bill became a guy known for trading back and gaining picks doing so.  That being the case, what was the harm in drafting a guy like Tom Brady in round 6 that nobody else seemed interested in?  He wasn't a 1st year starter; but the 1st year he started after Bledsoe got injured the next year - he was the Super Bowl winning QB that emerged into a GOAT.  

    I'm okay with not using all our picks this after the free agency efforts set us up so we can make trades with picks.  I had to sleep on that though but we can trade up for a better shot at immediate help or trade back to bulk up next year's draft. We have options.  

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    Dutch OvenD 1 Reply
    👍 ❤

  • No doubt we need to select 3-4 players this year, and hopefully all will be solid guys in a year.  I want to go BPA and not worry about positions so much, but it wouldn't bother me at all (wink wink) if we draft a back, guard, and DT.

    I don't worry about RB so much as you can always draft and plug and play those guys to some degree.  I also like John Kelly who has been on our practice squad a couple of seasons.  We could play him this year.    Mid-late round Dt's and Guards could use a little seasoning in a perfect world.  Guards are in that area all the time.  Good ones.  DT's maybe not the studs, but you can still find good run stuffer in that area...pass rushers not so much....but run stuffers are fine in a rotational role, if not starting.

    LB is an area we could us.  maybe draft one rather than the back I mentioned earlier.  With our O-line, we can find backs who would be decent enough in free agency after camp cuts.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    OrionO 1 Reply
    👍
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @ballpeen said:

    I know Campbell has gotten a lot of early talk.

    I was thinking he would be a higher pick. Why would he be valued as a 3rd-4th round pick?

    Gumbs listed him at #53, which would be a trade up.  

    @flugel said:

    Gumbs listed him at #53, which would be a trade up.

    i  forgot which internet show I was listening to but they had him falling to us in the 3rd

    ❤
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    No doubt we need to select 3-4 players this year, and hopefully all will be solid guys in a year.  I want to go BPA and not worry about positions so much, but it wouldn't bother me at all (wink wink) if we draft a back, guard, and DT.

    I don't worry about RB so much as you can always draft and plug and play those guys to some degree.  I also like John Kelly who has been on our practice squad a couple of seasons.  We could play him this year.    Mid-late round Dt's and Guards could use a little seasoning in a perfect world.  Guards are in that area all the time.  Good ones.  DT's maybe not the studs, but you can still find good run stuffer in that area...pass rushers not so much....but run stuffers are fine in a rotational role, if not starting.

    LB is an area we could us.  maybe draft one rather than the back I mentioned earlier.  With our O-line, we can find backs who would be decent enough in free agency after camp cuts.

    @ballpeen said:

    I also like John Kelly who has been on our practice squad

    Thank you.  I was forgetting about him.  I like him every August.  There's never been any room for him.  Perhaps, this year, the stars might line up for him.  ??  

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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