5 QB’s In The Room
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I agree, like the line at the end of First Blood:
"It's over Johnny, it's over."
I didn't want the Browns to trade for Watson, because deep down I thought the only way he'd be able to succeed after all the off-field nonsense, all the negativity that surrounded him was if he was a straight-up sociopath. I worried that he'd never be able to move past all the drama in his life, all the chirping in his ears, being hated everywhere he went. Most people/players want to be liked. There are few people who enjoy being the bad guy, and he was the bad guy not because of what he did on the field (like Draymond Green or Bill Laimbeer) but because of what he did off it.
Not only were my worries about this found to be true, but he went from a guy who never missed time with injuries to a guy whose body started failing him - and these weren't minor injuries. His shoulder broke. He tore his Achilles twice.
But wait - there's more: What we never heard until a year or so into his Browns run was stories from Houston on how years into his NFL career he was still always looking towards the sideline for help on what to do. He was pretty much force-fed everything with the Texans. And yes, he was a top 5 QB with Houston, it appears his success was a house of cards. Another giant problem was how poorly paired Watson and Stefanski were.
I got my ass handed to me in this thread. ? The Rambo analogy was good but this whole thing feels more like Friday the 13th - and Freddy Krueger is still under contract in this sequel.
I got my ass handed to me in this thread. ? The Rambo analogy was good but this whole thing feels more like Friday the 13th - and Freddy Krueger is still under contract in this sequel.
We will see, you might end up being right. If he leaves Cleveland and then has success somewhere else, well…
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I got my ass handed to me in this thread. ? The Rambo analogy was good but this whole thing feels more like Friday the 13th - and Freddy Krueger is still under contract in this sequel.
We will see, you might end up being right. If he leaves Cleveland and then has success somewhere else, well…
We will see, you might end up being right. If he leaves Cleveland and then has success somewhere else, well…
Sometimes I'd rather be wrong; and this feels like one of those... One thing is for sure and I think we'll all agree - the Browns gotta be healthy consumers in the draft moving forward. The 2025 draft for the Browns got the train back on the tracks. Maybe even at QB by accident...
If QB is the most important position of every NFL franchise - leaving Raggedy Ann & Andy equivalents in charge of our pass pro on the edges is inexcusable.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
After knee and Achilles issues, the doubts are warranted. That said, modern medicine is a hell of a thing. When I was a kid, a shredded knee was a death sentence.
Mostly it was his "complete" ability at QB, having a physical and mentally complimentary game. He had great abilities between the ears, then his physical attributes bolstered that.
Bringing Watson on board there was a clear shift from the UC/ outside zone and PAP that was 30% of the offense to a more gun-based, vertical zone with more RPO's, glances, post-snap sight adjusts and a high percentage intermediate game. There was also a targeted change in personnel, namely along the OL moving towards bigger bodies that would be working in shorter space. (Think, like Dawand but not quite that scale for every OL target)
I can't agree that there wasn't a sizable conversation on what may have been needed to further tailor the Browns to an offense that more resembled some of what the Texans had run.
I don't think he woke up dumb. But when Watson finally looked like he was getting up to speed, he had a season ending injury against Baltimore and never recovered. I was as patient with Watson as anyone, but what he put on film wasn't great. He struggled at times to execute even the most fundamental things.
Nick Saban couldn't beat an NFL wash out in Cardale Jones with a 21-6 lead. He couldn't consistently stop Johnny Manziel either. While his defenses are a benchmark, they aren't the end-all.
Not enough sample size to look smarter elsewhere? Not saying it isn't possible, just unlikely. He took a lot of sacks in Houston. Some because of the OL, some because he tried too much to play hero ball and to carry the offense.
While I appreciate your points - I'm just frustrated that out of the 3 teams Watson played for at Clemson, Houston and Cleveland - Cleveland was the only one that had enormous trouble coordinating and running the type of offense he was fit to succeed in.
In Houston Watson made 3 Pro Bowls and led that team to the playoffs 3 different times in the first 4 years of the guy's NFL career. I shared the stats; and I agree with you that he took far too many sacks from holding onto the ball too long (like a lot of young QBs - ie; CJ Stroud as recently as last year). Nothing ever unfolded here that made him anywhere near as efficient as he was in Houston. I didn't see the massive effort to strengthen the OL once this trade was made. The Browns were stuck on park with 2 oft-injured Tackles: Wills and Conklin. Having said that, this gave 4th round draft pick OT - Dawand Jones a chance to play RT & LT prior to him ending all 3 of his seasons on IR. Bitonio was already here since 2014; and Teller came via trade with Buffalo in 2019 while Pocic arrived in 2022. The only depth drafted was C - Luke Wypler in round 6 and OG - Zak Zinter in round 3 coming off brutal compound fractures to his Tibia & Fibula in the Ohio State-Michigan game. There's a lot of depreciated value in the OL and all 3 QBs this year have felt it.
Before the NFL per Google, Deshaun Watson had a decorated college career at Clemson from 2014 to 2016, leading the Tigers to the 2016 national championship (played in January 2017) and becoming a two-time Heisman Trophy finalist. He set numerous school records and finished his career with a 32-3 record as a starter.Career Overview and AccomplishmentsWatson's accomplishments at Clemson included leading the team to a national championship victory in the 2016 season against Alabama and being a two-time Heisman finalist. He won the Davey O'Brien Award and the Manning Award multiple times.Career StatisticsOver 38 games, Watson's career statistics included:Statistic Total Passing Yards 10,163 Passing Touchdowns 90 Rushing Yards 1,936 Rushing Touchdowns 26 Completion Percentage 67.4% Watson was known for performing well in significant games. This included setting a school record for passing touchdowns in his first start in 2014 and setting a game record for total offense in the 2015 National Championship. In the 2016 National Championship, he led the game-winning drive against Alabama. For more details on his notable games, visit the Clemson Tigers official athletics site.
While I appreciate your points - I'm just frustrated that out of the 3 teams Watson played for at Clemson, Houston and Cleveland - Cleveland was the only one that had enormous trouble coordinating and running the type of offense he was fit to succeed in.
Can't really count Clemson. With that line of logic, no college QB should fail to succeed in their game translating to the NFL.
In Houston Watson made 3 Pro Bowls and led that team to the playoffs 3 different times in the first 4 years of the guy's NFL career. I shared the stats; and I agree with you that he took far too many sacks from holding onto the ball too long (like a lot of young QBs - ie; CJ Stroud as recently as last year). Nothing ever unfolded here that made him anywhere near as efficient as he was in Houston. I didn't see the massive effort to strengthen the OL once this trade was made.
When the trade was made, the IOL was top 5. The tackles, while not amazing, were at least a league average group. Superior QB's have made due with much less.
The Browns were stuck on park with 2 oft-injured Tackles: Wills and Conklin. Having said that, this gave 4th round draft pick OT - Dawand Jones a chance to play RT & LT prior to him ending all 3 of his seasons on IR. Bitonio was already here since 2014; and Teller came via trade with Buffalo in 2019 while Pocic arrived in 2022. The only depth drafted was C - Luke Wypler in round 6 and OG - Zak Zinter in round 3 coming off brutal compound fractures to his Tibia & Fibula in the Ohio State-Michigan game. There's a lot of depreciated value in the OL and all 3 QBs this year have felt it.
This reminds me of what I warned people about before the 2022 season. Minimal investment along the IDL for multiple drafts. And what little investment was made either went out the door or didn't pan out.
The OL has been getting old for a while now. Combine that with injuries and there should have been a greater foresight by the front office. However much of their strategy involved one thing - hope. Hope that good health and fortune would prevail. Especially in regard to Dawand and Conklin.
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I agree, like the line at the end of First Blood:
"It's over Johnny, it's over."
I didn't want the Browns to trade for Watson, because deep down I thought the only way he'd be able to succeed after all the off-field nonsense, all the negativity that surrounded him was if he was a straight-up sociopath. I worried that he'd never be able to move past all the drama in his life, all the chirping in his ears, being hated everywhere he went. Most people/players want to be liked. There are few people who enjoy being the bad guy, and he was the bad guy not because of what he did on the field (like Draymond Green or Bill Laimbeer) but because of what he did off it.
Not only were my worries about this found to be true, but he went from a guy who never missed time with injuries to a guy whose body started failing him - and these weren't minor injuries. His shoulder broke. He tore his Achilles twice.
But wait - there's more: What we never heard until a year or so into his Browns run was stories from Houston on how years into his NFL career he was still always looking towards the sideline for help on what to do. He was pretty much force-fed everything with the Texans. And yes, he was a top 5 QB with Houston, it appears his success was a house of cards. Another giant problem was how poorly paired Watson and Stefanski were.
I have never heard/read any stories on the last part.
On the pairing, I have always felt that was more Watson than Steff. With the skills Watson had, I never understood why he would not want to play in a PA base scheme that made it easier for him. As fat as I am concerned PA from the gun doesn't do much
I have never heard/read any stories on the last part.
On the pairing, I have always felt that was more Watson than Steff. With the skills Watson had, I never understood why he would not want to play in a PA base scheme that made it easier for him. As fat as I am concerned PA from the gun doesn't do much
I know I'm one of the younger (youngest?) guys on the board, but I can't stress how much the game at the developmental levels, jr high, high school and college, has changed.
4 years ago I got into assistant coaching and was flat out told by the QB I was working with that he had never been under center or turned his back to a defense.
Gun based things tend to allow us to work more quick hitting passes from RPO looks with greater field vision and confidence. Let's say I'm running a solo glance against a +1 box and basing my read off the leverage of the weak backer, I'm damn well sure I wouldn't be under center. What I'm conveying is that, as coaches moved to create designs that "manufactured" more yards, we ended up hurting our players because we didn't ask more of them. And when we didn't push them out of the comfort zones, they didn't improve on the mechanics of staple things - UC work and PAP.
The fact college got away from being under center so much, even with the QB centric running game, never made much sense to me. The range of things you can implement from under center is incredible. Good news is, I've seen us coming full circle and going back under center more at the lowest levels.
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We will see, you might end up being right. If he leaves Cleveland and then has success somewhere else, well…
Sometimes I'd rather be wrong; and this feels like one of those... One thing is for sure and I think we'll all agree - the Browns gotta be healthy consumers in the draft moving forward. The 2025 draft for the Browns got the train back on the tracks. Maybe even at QB by accident...
If QB is the most important position of every NFL franchise - leaving Raggedy Ann & Andy equivalents in charge of our pass pro on the edges is inexcusable.
Sometimes I'd rather be wrong; and this feels like one of those... One thing is for sure and I think we'll all agree - the Browns gotta be healthy consumers in the draft moving forward. The 2025 draft for the Browns got the train back on the tracks. Maybe even at QB by accident...
If QB is the most important position of every NFL franchise - leaving Raggedy Ann & Andy equivalents in charge of our pass pro on the edges is inexcusable.
That being said, I would be shocked if Watson ever got even close to his 2018-20 form.
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Sometimes I'd rather be wrong; and this feels like one of those... One thing is for sure and I think we'll all agree - the Browns gotta be healthy consumers in the draft moving forward. The 2025 draft for the Browns got the train back on the tracks. Maybe even at QB by accident...
If QB is the most important position of every NFL franchise - leaving Raggedy Ann & Andy equivalents in charge of our pass pro on the edges is inexcusable.
That being said, I would be shocked if Watson ever got even close to his 2018-20 form.
That being said, I would be shocked if Watson ever got even close to his 2018-20 form.
Yeah that ship has sailed. What am I talking about? It never sailed - it sunk!
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I have never heard/read any stories on the last part.
On the pairing, I have always felt that was more Watson than Steff. With the skills Watson had, I never understood why he would not want to play in a PA base scheme that made it easier for him. As fat as I am concerned PA from the gun doesn't do much
I know I'm one of the younger (youngest?) guys on the board, but I can't stress how much the game at the developmental levels, jr high, high school and college, has changed.
4 years ago I got into assistant coaching and was flat out told by the QB I was working with that he had never been under center or turned his back to a defense.
Gun based things tend to allow us to work more quick hitting passes from RPO looks with greater field vision and confidence. Let's say I'm running a solo glance against a +1 box and basing my read off the leverage of the weak backer, I'm damn well sure I wouldn't be under center. What I'm conveying is that, as coaches moved to create designs that "manufactured" more yards, we ended up hurting our players because we didn't ask more of them. And when we didn't push them out of the comfort zones, they didn't improve on the mechanics of staple things - UC work and PAP.
The fact college got away from being under center so much, even with the QB centric running game, never made much sense to me. The range of things you can implement from under center is incredible. Good news is, I've seen us coming full circle and going back under center more at the lowest levels.
I know I'm one of the younger (youngest?) guys on the board, but I can't stress how much the game at the developmental levels, jr high, high school and college, has changed.
4 years ago I got into assistant coaching and was flat out told by the QB I was working with that he had never been under center or turned his back to a defense.
Gun based things tend to allow us to work more quick hitting passes from RPO looks with greater field vision and confidence. Let's say I'm running a solo glance against a +1 box and basing my read off the leverage of the weak backer, I'm damn well sure I wouldn't be under center. What I'm conveying is that, as coaches moved to create designs that "manufactured" more yards, we ended up hurting our players because we didn't ask more of them. And when we didn't push them out of the comfort zones, they didn't improve on the mechanics of staple things - UC work and PAP.
The fact college got away from being under center so much, even with the QB centric running game, never made much sense to me. The range of things you can implement from under center is incredible. Good news is, I've seen us coming full circle and going back under center more at the lowest levels.
College coaches are not developing players, they are trying to win and generate revenue. Its why NFL game in part started to incorporate more of that style with you QBs. No choice
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I know I'm one of the younger (youngest?) guys on the board, but I can't stress how much the game at the developmental levels, jr high, high school and college, has changed.
4 years ago I got into assistant coaching and was flat out told by the QB I was working with that he had never been under center or turned his back to a defense.
Gun based things tend to allow us to work more quick hitting passes from RPO looks with greater field vision and confidence. Let's say I'm running a solo glance against a +1 box and basing my read off the leverage of the weak backer, I'm damn well sure I wouldn't be under center. What I'm conveying is that, as coaches moved to create designs that "manufactured" more yards, we ended up hurting our players because we didn't ask more of them. And when we didn't push them out of the comfort zones, they didn't improve on the mechanics of staple things - UC work and PAP.
The fact college got away from being under center so much, even with the QB centric running game, never made much sense to me. The range of things you can implement from under center is incredible. Good news is, I've seen us coming full circle and going back under center more at the lowest levels.
College coaches are not developing players, they are trying to win and generate revenue. Its why NFL game in part started to incorporate more of that style with you QBs. No choice
College coaches are not developing players, they are trying to win and generate revenue. Its why NFL game in part started to incorporate more of that style with you QBs. No choice
They are developing players. But it's to the extent and to what end they are developing players. I've said it before, but a lot of what we do anymore is a "nanny-state" offense.
Brady summarized words that I was struggling to find, but what he's saying here carries a great deal of weight with me.
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College coaches are not developing players, they are trying to win and generate revenue. Its why NFL game in part started to incorporate more of that style with you QBs. No choice
They are developing players. But it's to the extent and to what end they are developing players. I've said it before, but a lot of what we do anymore is a "nanny-state" offense.
Brady summarized words that I was struggling to find, but what he's saying here carries a great deal of weight with me.
They are developing players. But it's to the extent and to what end they are developing players. I've said it before, but a lot of what we do anymore is a "nanny-state" offense.
Brady summarized words that I was struggling to find, but what he's saying here carries a great deal of weight with me.
Yeah, when I say not developing I mean for the next level. Today, at the college level (or even below) the "development" is to suit the programs needs, not for the player long term needs. Don't get me wrong, i understand why it is that way.
If I were to take it out of the sports world and in to say the business world, most bosses are going to "coach" to what they need for their goals, not to what is actually long term best for the employee long term goals.
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Rumor says Kylar Murray is looking for houses in Strongsville.
Giggety
He might be shorter than Gabriel. It would look like a bunch of Keebler Elves in the meeting room when QBs have their meetings with the offensive coaches.
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could this be a tip of the hat as our plans for next years draft ? and if so I would keep Stefanski for one more year and unless the team balls out bring in a new coach with out new QB via the draft
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could this be a tip of the hat as our plans for next years draft ? and if so I would keep Stefanski for one more year and unless the team balls out bring in a new coach with out new QB via the draft
could this be a tip of the hat as our plans for next years draft ? and if so I would keep Stefanski for one more year and unless the team balls out bring in a new coach with out new QB via the draft
This news is not surprising in any bit. The contract always made releasing him next year a problem. Him working with the QBs has been known since camp.
The only things which would change CLE approach to taking a first round QB in the 2026 draft are a) they cant get one of the QBs they view as such in the draft b) Sanders plays so well down the stretch that he earns going in to 2026 as the starter.
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could this be a tip of the hat as our plans for next years draft ? and if so I would keep Stefanski for one more year and unless the team balls out bring in a new coach with out new QB via the draft
This news is not surprising in any bit. The contract always made releasing him next year a problem. Him working with the QBs has been known since camp.
The only things which would change CLE approach to taking a first round QB in the 2026 draft are a) they cant get one of the QBs they view as such in the draft b) Sanders plays so well down the stretch that he earns going in to 2026 as the starter.
This news is not surprising in any bit. The contract always made releasing him next year a problem. Him working with the QBs has been known since camp.
The only things which would change CLE approach to taking a first round QB in the 2026 draft are a) they cant get one of the QBs they view as such in the draft b) Sanders plays so well down the stretch that he earns going in to 2026 as the starter.
the fuck it isn't, first I never thought #4 would play another down for us. second reading between the lines tells me that we will not draft a qb in this years draft as many on the talking heads want you to believe. Also what qb are you going to draft with a top 5 pick ? besides Mandoza (who I would not draft let some other sucker move up to get him ) So tell me what qb are you going to draft with our pick ?
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Yesterday's performance shows me that Sanders is miles above our pigmy other rookie QB, but will the FO and Stef be able to admit it and really continue development of Sanders? Leave him in the rest of the season and work with him. He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses, but still 4 TD and 300+ yeards cannot be ignored. I'd forego drafting another and work with him a full season. Even Brady says with time the game slows down and processing speeds up. He should know. Kid has the arm for sure.
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Yesterday's performance shows me that Sanders is miles above our pigmy other rookie QB, but will the FO and Stef be able to admit it and really continue development of Sanders? Leave him in the rest of the season and work with him. He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses, but still 4 TD and 300+ yeards cannot be ignored. I'd forego drafting another and work with him a full season. Even Brady says with time the game slows down and processing speeds up. He should know. Kid has the arm for sure.
Yesterday's performance shows me that Sanders is miles above our pigmy other rookie QB, but will the FO and Stef be able to admit it and really continue development of Sanders? Leave him in the rest of the season and work with him. He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses, but still 4 TD and 300+ yeards cannot be ignored. I'd forego drafting another and work with him a full season. Even Brady says with time the game slows down and processing speeds up. He should know. Kid has the arm for sure.
The Titans defense currently ranks higher than our remaining opponents on the schedule. Their situation is similar to ours where the offense stinks.
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Yesterday's performance shows me that Sanders is miles above our pigmy other rookie QB, but will the FO and Stef be able to admit it and really continue development of Sanders? Leave him in the rest of the season and work with him. He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses, but still 4 TD and 300+ yeards cannot be ignored. I'd forego drafting another and work with him a full season. Even Brady says with time the game slows down and processing speeds up. He should know. Kid has the arm for sure.
He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses,
As MDDawg pointed out, the Titans D is not one of the worse defenses. You shoulda' checked out my Tale of the Tape for the game.
After accounting for 4 TD's and 346 passing yards on Sunday, there ain't no leaving him on the bench anymore. That ship has sailed.
Watson can be the backup QB and private tutor to the QB's next year.
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He may be a rookie and it may have been one of the worse defenses,
As MDDawg pointed out, the Titans D is not one of the worse defenses. You shoulda' checked out my Tale of the Tape for the game.
After accounting for 4 TD's and 346 passing yards on Sunday, there ain't no leaving him on the bench anymore. That ship has sailed.
Watson can be the backup QB and private tutor to the QB's next year.
As MDDawg pointed out, the Titans D is not one of the worse defenses. You shoulda' checked out my Tale of the Tape for the game.
After accounting for 4 TD's and 346 passing yards on Sunday, there ain't no leaving him on the bench anymore. That ship has sailed.
Watson can be the backup QB and private tutor to the QB's next year.
Can't say I would have ever predicted this scenario, but here we are... ?
Sanders performance yesterday has given me the most optimism for the Browns in quite a while. Who knows if it is the beginning of something great or just fool's gold, but if he hits, this last draft could end up being one of the best in Browns history, and possibly what turns the team's fortunes.
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