Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust?
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He found a WR in Massaquoi that can actually hang on to his 5 yard rocket shots
Just like with Winslow and Edwards, he'll grow tired of the hits and develope gattor arms
Masters said:
Just like with Winslow and Edwards, he'll grow tired of the hits and develope gattor armsIsn't that what might have happened to Cribbs?
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It's certainly possible the Quinn is a bust. Mangini didnt give him a fair shot, imo and whatever. If we win with DA then who cares. We haven't, but that's what we're up against now.
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Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.
I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
Regards
.... an'at
.
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Masters said:
Just like with Winslow and Edwards, he'll grow tired of the hits and develope gattor armsIsn't that what might have happened to Cribbs?
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Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.
I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
Regards
.... an'at
.
Steeler SChuck said:
Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
One flaw there. The owner and GM brought Favre to the NYJ, not Mangini. Mangini just hung w/ him too long when he knew Brett was hurt.
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Steeler SChuck said:
Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
One flaw there. The owner and GM brought Favre to the NYJ, not Mangini. Mangini just hung w/ him too long when he knew Brett was hurt.
Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.
I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
Masters said:
One flaw there. The owner and GM brought Favre to the NYJ, not Mangini. Mangini just hung w/ him too long when he knew Brett was hurt.Oh there is more than one flaw there. You forgot to go after the idea that Quinn has undeveloped potential. Quinn has peaked. I've seen the same flaws in his game from his rookie year as I do now. The kid just can't play at this level. Lerner wanted his boy in there and he got em. He sold a million tickets and let Mangini pull the plug. Playing DA was not a panic move it was the original plan. ANY unbias fan who watched preseason and training camp could see beyond a shadow of a doubt that DA was outperforming Quinn. There simply is no way Mangini could have missed it. It was clear and he is a lot smarter than us. BQ is the future for nobody's team. He, like Frye, is a career backup. In my opinion.
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Quinn's still brand new. He has more upside than DA. DA is who yinz thought he was. Who knows what BQ will turn out to be.
I know one thing for sure, if this kid gets too screwed up - forget it. He'll go the Tim Couch route.
The entire stains roster has problems. If Mangina has any coaching sense, he'll recognize undeveloped potential in BQ. I'm just not sure Mangina has that sense.
Yinz are 0-4. Quarter way through the season. Think it's turn-aroundable? Probably not and playing DA at this point is a panic move. Just like when Mangina brought Brett into NJ - panic move, an attempt to save his own ass.
Masters said:
One flaw there. The owner and GM brought Favre to the NYJ, not Mangini. Mangini just hung w/ him too long when he knew Brett was hurt.Oh there is more than one flaw there. You forgot to go after the idea that Quinn has undeveloped potential. Quinn has peaked. I've seen the same flaws in his game from his rookie year as I do now. The kid just can't play at this level. Lerner wanted his boy in there and he got em. He sold a million tickets and let Mangini pull the plug. Playing DA was not a panic move it was the original plan. ANY unbias fan who watched preseason and training camp could see beyond a shadow of a doubt that DA was outperforming Quinn. There simply is no way Mangini could have missed it. It was clear and he is a lot smarter than us. BQ is the future for nobody's team. He, like Frye, is a career backup. In my opinion.
. Quinn has peaked. I've seen the same flaws in his game from his rookie year as I do now.
Please tell me you didn't just say that, yet will pump up DA?
Dude, DA has the same flaws since his sophmore year in college. The same flaws since he started his first game in 2006.
I won't even touch the Lerner conspiracy garbage. Because if there is any truth to that, this team is just as screwed and Managini is an automatic failure, because any coach that goes along w/ that crap has no business being and NFL coach. You don't succeed by sabotaging yourself.
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Whether he's a bust or not his days are numbered as a browns guy.
What he is,he is the most mismanaged player i can remember. He's a question mark in many people eye's. Who really knows and at this juncture(0-4), and who cares?
Would i like to see a feel good story develop with Quinn? Sure, but the groundwork has been laid to build a team first and finish it off with another QB in a later draft.
I don't see us drafting a QB next year unless our current squad materializes into something worth building around.
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Whether he's a bust or not his days are numbered as a browns guy.
What he is,he is the most mismanaged player i can remember. He's a question mark in many people eye's. Who really knows and at this juncture(0-4), and who cares?
Would i like to see a feel good story develop with Quinn? Sure, but the groundwork has been laid to build a team first and finish it off with another QB in a later draft.
I don't see us drafting a QB next year unless our current squad materializes into something worth building around.
I don't see us drafting a QB next year unless our current squad materializes into something worth building around.
And if that means CLE is going into next year w/ DA at the helm, I see CLE getting a new HC in 2011.
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Masters said:
He'd actually have to get open first.You know assume that how?
I know better. I know that in week #1 the kid ran hard, ran hard with no looks and a late throw his way in garbage time. I pointed it out here.
Cribbs has been replaced by MoMass because of Massaquoi emergence and development. When you are getting your ass handed to you, down by several scores and you still can't find kids like Massaquoi or put the ball into the hands of one of your best play makers (Cribbs), you find yourself on the bench. Both ran good routes and ran them hard in week #1 ... they didn't just fall out of the sky in week #4.
The coaches saw that too.
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Masters said:
He'd actually have to get open first.You know assume that how?
I know better. I know that in week #1 the kid ran hard, ran hard with no looks and a late throw his way in garbage time. I pointed it out here.
Cribbs has been replaced by MoMass because of Massaquoi emergence and development. When you are getting your ass handed to you, down by several scores and you still can't find kids like Massaquoi or put the ball into the hands of one of your best play makers (Cribbs), you find yourself on the bench. Both ran good routes and ran them hard in week #1 ... they didn't just fall out of the sky in week #4.
The coaches saw that too.
The coaches saw that too.
You mean that Cribbs can't get seperation and open, yeah, the coaches obviously saw that. Notice Cribbs had little involvement this week as a WR. That must be a coincindence.... All MoMass had to do is lace up his shoes and step between the lines in order to progress as better than Cribbs at WR. You do realize Cribbs went from #2 WR on the depth chart to #4.
You don't need more than an educated guess (or to watch the games) to figure this one out.
And it's you that knows assumes that all that running around you pointed out was anything close to what he was supposed to be doing out there. Moving from 2 to 4 tells me all that running around was not even close to where he was supposed to be.
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Noway 5 1/2 games is enough to see what Quinn is capable of
But ,he has had 2 1/2 training camps with 2 different coaching staffs
and no one has seen the "IT" ,the glimpse of greatness to come
that they obvoiusly saw from Manning & Breeze.
Hell ,maybe new town,new team ,new offense, Quinn gets it all together
Don't Care,time to move on ,Pick wasted
Noway 5 1/2 games is enough to see what Quinn is capable of
But ,he has had 2 1/2 training camps with 2 different coaching staffs
and no one has seen the "IT" ,the glimpse of greatness to come
that they obvoiusly saw from Manning & Breeze.
Hell ,maybe new town,new team ,new offense, Quinn gets it all together
Don't Care,time to move on ,Pick wasted
Great point. We see the EXACT dilemna training air traffic controllers. I've trained dozens over the past 20 yrs. (Even trained Billy Bob Thornton for Pushing Tin) We refer to it as the "Light" going on. The problem with this "Light" is that there's no way to assess if someone's LIGHT comes on unless they have the opportunity to be tested under fire. Can they make the STEP to the next level. Whether it's the FAA in the USA or our own system in Canada, they've been trying to figure out how to get the LIGHT on for trainees for years. Can you duplicate all the skills you possess under stress.I'm not pro or anti anyone. The idea of making such a final decision given such a small body of work isn't wise.
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The coaches saw that too.
You mean that Cribbs can't get seperation and open, yeah, the coaches obviously saw that. Notice Cribbs had little involvement this week as a WR. That must be a coincindence.... All MoMass had to do is lace up his shoes and step between the lines in order to progress as better than Cribbs at WR. You do realize Cribbs went from #2 WR on the depth chart to #4.
You don't need more than an educated guess (or to watch the games) to figure this one out.
And it's you that knows assumes that all that running around you pointed out was anything close to what he was supposed to be doing out there. Moving from 2 to 4 tells me all that running around was not even close to where he was supposed to be.
Masters said:
You mean that Cribbs can't get seperation and open, yeah, the coaches obviously saw that. Notice Cribbs had little involvement this week as a WR. That must be a coincindence.... All MoMass had to do is lace up his shoes and step between the lines in order to progress as better than Cribbs at WR. You do realize Cribbs went from #2 WR on the depth chart to #4.You don't need more than an educated guess (or to watch the games) to figure this one out.
And it's you that knows assumes that all that running around you pointed out was anything close to what he was supposed to be doing out there. Moving from 2 to 4 tells me all that running around was not even close to where he was supposed to be.
Actually I don't know why I'm wasting my time as you Quinn guys already have your minds made up to view everything about this team negative since your boy doesn't fit into the plans, however I think as much went into removing Cribbs at WR because he was getting spent running phantom routes and wearing himself down as a very teeny part of the offense, as much so as he did because he wasn't running the right patterns.
They still want him involved in the offense, just don't want to waste him as a WR.
As far as my sight of the games and knowing if he was running the right patterns or not ... I posted after game one that he was finding seams and running in the clear. Did you post somewhere back then that he was blanketed, and that when Quinn looked his way he wasn't where he was supposed to be? naaa ... your curbing your view and stance to fit your argument.
In fact, if you think back to times Quinn threw his way, Quinn was setting Cribbs up to get racked by the safety, not that the CB who was covering him had him covered.
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Masters said:
You mean that Cribbs can't get seperation and open, yeah, the coaches obviously saw that. Notice Cribbs had little involvement this week as a WR. That must be a coincindence.... All MoMass had to do is lace up his shoes and step between the lines in order to progress as better than Cribbs at WR. You do realize Cribbs went from #2 WR on the depth chart to #4.You don't need more than an educated guess (or to watch the games) to figure this one out.
And it's you that knows assumes that all that running around you pointed out was anything close to what he was supposed to be doing out there. Moving from 2 to 4 tells me all that running around was not even close to where he was supposed to be.
Actually I don't know why I'm wasting my time as you Quinn guys already have your minds made up to view everything about this team negative since your boy doesn't fit into the plans, however I think as much went into removing Cribbs at WR because he was getting spent running phantom routes and wearing himself down as a very teeny part of the offense, as much so as he did because he wasn't running the right patterns.
They still want him involved in the offense, just don't want to waste him as a WR.
As far as my sight of the games and knowing if he was running the right patterns or not ... I posted after game one that he was finding seams and running in the clear. Did you post somewhere back then that he was blanketed, and that when Quinn looked his way he wasn't where he was supposed to be? naaa ... your curbing your view and stance to fit your argument.
In fact, if you think back to times Quinn threw his way, Quinn was setting Cribbs up to get racked by the safety, not that the CB who was covering him had him covered.
Actually I don't know why I'm wasting my time as you Quinn guys already have your minds made up to view everything about this team negative since your boy doesn't fit into the plans, however I think as much went into removing Cribbs at WR because he was getting spent running phantom routes and wearing himself down as a very teeny part of the offense, as much so as he did because he wasn't running the right patterns.
They still want him involved in the offense, just don't want to waste him as a WR.
As far as my sight of the games and knowing if he was running the right patterns or not ... I posted after game one that he was finding seams and running in the clear. Did you post somewhere back then that he was blanketed, and that when Quinn looked his way he wasn't where he was supposed to be? naaa ... your curbing your view and stance to fit your argument.
In fact, if you think back to times Quinn threw his way, Quinn was setting Cribbs up to get racked by the safety, not that the CB who was covering him had him covered.
You Quinn guys...
I am talking about Josh Cribbs (and my whole original comment was in jest, hense the big ass smiley face next to it). You don't want your #2 WR to be a teeny part of your offense. Cribbs inablity to play WR was the reason for that, not ST.
He was covered on most plays. And he wasn't where I'd think he should be in the seem of a zone. I am not curbing anything. But you are trying to throw it into being about Quinn to fit your argument, which is that you only have your straw man, as usual.
But if you want to make it about DA/BQ, then what you are telling me is DA getting guys leveled is okay, Quinn doing it is not.
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Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
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Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
I will go with #1 Magini is a douche and blew his wad, he has a severe case of eds or a severe case Napoleon syndrome.
I dont see him getting the job done at this point unless he happens to stumble into it. but then he will still want to control it to every extreme and fook it up.
If all else fails Lerner can keep him around as a parking lot attendendant and he can continue writing tickets.
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the problem is. what we did to get BQ. imagine for the next draft, just giving up the first 2 picks for nothing. without giving him a shot, that is essentially what we are doing. the same as buying a car, and taking it to a junkyard without driving it.
its not like we have a winner in DA. we're gonna have a losing season, we might aswell have one with a person that has the possibility of improving, as opposed to DA, who will never improve.
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Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust? Plenty of guys he was drafted near are all ready pretty much busty.
There were only seven players picked between BQ and Craig "Buster" Davis, who the Chargers have seemingly given up on. Robert Meachem (five picks after Quinn) isn't exactly seeing 1st-team snaps/balls in NO. Alan Branch (11 after BQ) isn't in the Cards' plans as far as I know. John Beck and Drew Stanton, taken 18 and 21 picks after BQ respectively, aren't in ANYONE'S future plans.
Late first round QB draft picks have a piss poor track record (save for Aaron Rodgers). BQ, Losman, Grossman...all busts, all recent late first-round picks. Also, he was picked like 10 picks before the second round. And the second round is where quarterbacks are drafted to die. The list of round 2 busts is so long Stan would need additional server space to house said list.
Draft picks bust, especially QBs in that region of the draft. Shit happens. I'm ready to move on.
You may ask why some guys (the shitty JaMarcus Russell) get a longer leash? because the difference between 1 and 22 might as well be a thousand.
<Why is it so hard to believe that Quinn could be a bust? Plenty of guys he was drafted near are all ready pretty much busty.>
Here's is why. It took Ol Goolie quite a few years to figure this one out, but I think I finally got it. A fan is by definition usually devoid of logic when it comes to his own team. This isn't an insult, it is the truth. For the same reason liberals can't face Obama being a failure, Browns fans can't face Quinn going down the tubes.
Many fans spend the entire off season dreaming of touchdowns, Steeler ass-kickings and a return to glory. It isn't a blind love for Quinn man, it is a blind love for the Browns. If Quinn busts it has nasty repricussions for teh fan; it means more ridicule and crap results.
Where I differ from a lot of you is that for a variety of reasons I am more than willing to air out with you, right or wrong, my emotional connection to the Browns died when Cleveland boo'd Bill Belichik and Vinny T on Monday night against the bills one beautiful, upper-deck october night.
I admit that I originally thought Lerner would be great. This was one of the few things I missed on. I turned against him in 2002 and his son is a turd off of the same butt squeeze. But I digress; without the emotional component I come at things form a different angle. Is it better? Shit, who cares? Our team blows.
I will say one thing to all of you, and if you believe otherwise then honestly you really don't know how the world works. Cleveland fans love the fantasy concept of an owner who sits back and puts the control of the team into the hands of the football men.
Do you honestly think that Billionaires get to be billionaires but just turning their companies over to any Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along? Do you really think the billionaires are nonchalant?
Emotional fans hate guys like Modell and Jerry Jones for mettling. I would rather have either of those guys than the turd we have. At least Modell loved football and more importantly, Browns football. At least his dumb ass moments came because his emotions clouded his better judgement.
Emotion? Ah yea, as I said, a fan is emotional and logic doesn't always apply.
In 1995 I was blasted for asking Baltimore to keep the Browns name while forcing Cleveland's team to adopt a new name?
Why? Because WITHOUT the emotional tie to the past Lerner would have faced fans who, after a couple years watching the Cleveland Limestone-heads go 3 - 13 would have boo'd Lerner out of town. Instead? After 10 years of the worst football imaginable, emotional fans are actually hopeful that this latest loss has some building points.
I ain't gonna insult anyone. I used to be one of those fans and I wish I knew how to go back to those times. I really do.
What has happened to the Browns is sad. What is inexcusable is that there really is no fix in sight.
Tom V. (Get it while it lasts)
There were only seven players picked between BQ and Craig "Buster" Davis, who the Chargers have seemingly given up on. Robert Meachem (five picks after Quinn) isn't exactly seeing 1st-team snaps/balls in NO. Alan Branch (11 after BQ) isn't in the Cards' plans as far as I know. John Beck and Drew Stanton, taken 18 and 21 picks after BQ respectively, aren't in ANYONE'S future plans.
Late first round QB draft picks have a piss poor track record (save for Aaron Rodgers). BQ, Losman, Grossman...all busts, all recent late first-round picks. Also, he was picked like 10 picks before the second round. And the second round is where quarterbacks are drafted to die. The list of round 2 busts is so long Stan would need additional server space to house said list.
Draft picks bust, especially QBs in that region of the draft. Shit happens. I'm ready to move on.
You may ask why some guys (the shitty JaMarcus Russell) get a longer leash? because the difference between 1 and 22 might as well be a thousand.
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No, he is not, Tim Couch and Ryan leaf both started 2 full seasons, Quinn never even got that chance
He got the chance...and showed so little it ended.
How many chances would I get....20 starts or say maybe 2 tryout camp snaps??
Everything we heard about Quinn was how he was polished, NFL ready, and he had the "it" factor.
BS
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Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
Whether or not Mangini gave Quinn an ample shot is certainly up for debate (he probably didn't), but that is of small consequence any more. This relationship is done as far as I can tell; there's no coming back from this, is there?
And as for the decision, it comes down to two things, each of which are tough to believe but one HAS to be true:
Either 1) Magini is a total idiot and botched this whole thing or 2) Quinn simply does not have it.
Is there even room for any middle ground? Middle ground would have been letting Quinn play through.
Actually I think it was a combo. Meaning, Quinn wasn't showing it, and Mangini was feeling some heat. Getting fired from 2 HC positions doesn't do much for the nickname... so he threw in DA, just so he could say, "I played everybody I could."
I have to believe he felt like he had a QB on the roster, or we get Sanchized (good one, shep) in April. Nothing was working in the 1st couple of weeks, so he shows his hand. I really believe our D & ST lit the fire under the team this week. Just think of how pumped we were watching big D and big ST play; the offense fed off of that, imo, and we were treated to classic DA. Some great plays, and some not so great, and just not enough to get it done when we needed it (OT= 3 & outville). That's what we can expect this season. And then stressing out over a weak QB class this spring.
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