QB Discussion (pre Oct 11th game)
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Masters said:
No kidding. You cannot simulate in practice a real live pass rush and game speed in.This is to Masters and BrownsFan4Evr... who say a QB can't learn unless he's out on the field in actual games.
Matt Cassel.
Didn't even get off the bench as a QB at USC. Only collegiate start was as a halfback. Didn't get a start his first 3 NFL seasons. He's got himself a fat NFL contract as a QB now.
Tony Romo.
Didn't even throw an NFL pass 'til his 4th season. He's doing all right for himself.
I could go on, there's a thick list of QBs that didn't cut their teeth in games immediately and have done well in the NFL. Will Quinn join that list? Time will tell.
This is to Masters and BrownsFan4Evr... who say a QB can't learn unless he's out on the field in actual games.
Matt Cassel.
Didn't even get off the bench as a QB at USC. Only collegiate start was as a halfback. Didn't get a start his first 3 NFL seasons. He's got himself a fat NFL contract as a QB now.
Tony Romo.
Didn't even throw an NFL pass 'til his 4th season. He's doing all right for himself.
I could go on, there's a thick list of QBs that didn't cut their teeth in games immediately and have done well in the NFL. Will Quinn join that list? Time will tell.
For every one of them, we could find examples of guys that took games. Romo and Cassel also came on to pretty talented teams w/ established OC's and two of the best HC to ever walk a sideline.
There is still not substitute for live games, and I bet both of those guys would tell you that, just like Peyton Manning says it.
I don't know if Quinn will ever pan out for anyone, but the only way for him to really get better at this point (or any QBs) is to see live Defenses in live NFL games. I would be utterly shocked if I ever heard a succussful NFL coash or QB say otherwise as well.
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Masters said:
No kidding. You cannot simulate in practice a real live pass rush and game speed in.This is to Masters and BrownsFan4Evr... who say a QB can't learn unless he's out on the field in actual games.
Matt Cassel.
Didn't even get off the bench as a QB at USC. Only collegiate start was as a halfback. Didn't get a start his first 3 NFL seasons. He's got himself a fat NFL contract as a QB now.
Tony Romo.
Didn't even throw an NFL pass 'til his 4th season. He's doing all right for himself.
I could go on, there's a thick list of QBs that didn't cut their teeth in games immediately and have done well in the NFL. Will Quinn join that list? Time will tell.
This is to Masters and BrownsFan4Evr... who say a QB can't learn unless he's out on the field in actual games.
Matt Cassel.
Didn't even get off the bench as a QB at USC. Only collegiate start was as a halfback. Didn't get a start his first 3 NFL seasons. He's got himself a fat NFL contract as a QB now.
Tony Romo.
Didn't even throw an NFL pass 'til his 4th season. He's doing all right for himself.
I could go on, there's a thick list of QBs that didn't cut their teeth in games immediately and have done well in the NFL. Will Quinn join that list? Time will tell.
DNS....NE and DALLAS? Two of the MOST TALENTED OFFENSES IN THE NFL...and you are going to point to the bench riding QB as the reason for their success? REALLY?
Come on...the biggest thing Cassel proves is that Tom Brady is just as much a part of the SYSTEM in NE as he is a talent.
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This is to Masters and BrownsFan4Evr... who say a QB can't learn unless he's out on the field in actual games.
Matt Cassel.
Didn't even get off the bench as a QB at USC. Only collegiate start was as a halfback. Didn't get a start his first 3 NFL seasons. He's got himself a fat NFL contract as a QB now.
Tony Romo.
Didn't even throw an NFL pass 'til his 4th season. He's doing all right for himself.
I could go on, there's a thick list of QBs that didn't cut their teeth in games immediately and have done well in the NFL. Will Quinn join that list? Time will tell.
DNS....NE and DALLAS? Two of the MOST TALENTED OFFENSES IN THE NFL...and you are going to point to the bench riding QB as the reason for their success? REALLY?
Come on...the biggest thing Cassel proves is that Tom Brady is just as much a part of the SYSTEM in NE as he is a talent.
DNS....NE and DALLAS? Two of the MOST TALENTED OFFENSES IN THE NFL...and you are going to point to the bench riding QB as the reason for their success? REALLY?
Come on...the biggest thing Cassel proves is that Tom Brady is just as much a part of the SYSTEM in NE as he is a talent.
There's also rumors flying around that Romo isn't really starter material.
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Just look at Cassel in KC...and don't point at the overall because it is misleading to say the least.
Game 1: 1 TD, 2 INT's....to OAKLAND
Game 2: 14/18 for 90 yards
Game 3: 14/32, 47% completion rate
He has yet to put together a COMPLETE game worth having...and thus is 0-3 and averaging 13 points a game.
But in NE...well, he was the next coming...enough to hand a $60m contract to.
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Just look at Cassel in KC...and don't point at the overall because it is misleading to say the least.
Game 1: 1 TD, 2 INT's....to OAKLAND
Game 2: 14/18 for 90 yards
Game 3: 14/32, 47% completion rate
He has yet to put together a COMPLETE game worth having...and thus is 0-3 and averaging 13 points a game.
But in NE...well, he was the next coming...enough to hand a $60m contract to.
Just look at Cassel in KC...and don't point at the overall because it is misleading to say the least.
Game 1: 1 TD, 2 INT's....to OAKLAND
Game 2: 14/18 for 90 yards
Game 3: 14/32, 47% completion rate
He has yet to put together a COMPLETE game worth having...and thus is 0-3 and averaging 13 points a game.
But in NE...well, he was the next coming...enough to hand a $60m contract to.
So basically, you're saying since the Browns are a crappy team, Quinn should be cut unlimited slack, and the guy on the bench that has moved the same crappy team BETTER shouldn't be cut any slack.
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Just look at Cassel in KC...and don't point at the overall because it is misleading to say the least.
Game 1: 1 TD, 2 INT's....to OAKLAND
Game 2: 14/18 for 90 yards
Game 3: 14/32, 47% completion rate
He has yet to put together a COMPLETE game worth having...and thus is 0-3 and averaging 13 points a game.
But in NE...well, he was the next coming...enough to hand a $60m contract to.
So basically, you're saying since the Browns are a crappy team, Quinn should be cut unlimited slack, and the guy on the bench that has moved the same crappy team BETTER shouldn't be cut any slack.
So basically, you're saying since the Browns are a crappy team, Quinn should be cut unlimited slack, and the guy on the bench that has moved the same crappy team BETTER shouldn't be cut any slack.
All it all means is that 5 1/2 games is not enough time to evaluate a QB in the NFL.
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Just look at Cassel in KC...and don't point at the overall because it is misleading to say the least.
Game 1: 1 TD, 2 INT's....to OAKLAND
Game 2: 14/18 for 90 yards
Game 3: 14/32, 47% completion rate
He has yet to put together a COMPLETE game worth having...and thus is 0-3 and averaging 13 points a game.
But in NE...well, he was the next coming...enough to hand a $60m contract to.
So basically, you're saying since the Browns are a crappy team, Quinn should be cut unlimited slack, and the guy on the bench that has moved the same crappy team BETTER shouldn't be cut any slack.
So basically, you're saying since the Browns are a crappy team, Quinn should be cut unlimited slack, and the guy on the bench that has moved the same crappy team BETTER shouldn't be cut any slack.
what? when did I say that? I was just saying you were full of it trying to use those 2 as examples of anything other than QB's can thrive on GOOD TEAMS.
No, right now I think DA should start...until or unless he proves he HAS NOT learned to protect the ball. If he continues to grow and to lead this team in the right direction...he should start. Period.
BQ will or will not get another chance and that is up to DA to determine at this point. And I for one don't care as long as we are winning.
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I might as well chime in... First,, I look at the last two years at us and the other 31 teams. An example,, last year with Matt Ryan of Atlanta,, and Joe Flaco with the Ratbirds.. They were Rookies and it was either sink or swim... They did pretty good. This year,, look at Mark Sanchez of the Jets,, and Matt Stafford of the Lions,, (which has 1 win) but looks pretty good. Looks like they are either gonna sink or swim with their teams too. And 3 of those teams look pretty good,, and we all know that Detroit is rebuilding,, again,, but has a win already..As far for Quinn,, I myself don't think he has had enough time either to develope anything.. 6 starts in 3 yrs. Why's that ? All that money just to sit on the bench. They should've let him ,,, sink or swim,, for 16 games.. lets face it our QB's don't have to much protection,, or time,, once they get the ball..
I think if they EVER fix the problem, with the O line, as far as protection and blocking,, which will open up the running game then,, even BQ,, or DA would look a lot better... jmo.. Thanks
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I was a BQ supporter when we drafted him and I looked forward to seeing him get his chance to be our QB of the future.
That being said, I saw a completely different BQ playing the QB position this year when compared to what I saw in the couple games he started before the injury in 2008. Some of the things he does best such as roll-outs and bootlegs have been eliminated. It almost seems like he has been "coached" to play the position the way someone else wants it done, (such as stand in the pocket) and the things he does well removed from the game plan.
To be fair to him and to the rest of our team, I wish we would just trade him and get past the controversy. If we get to the point where we need to play a backup QB this year it won't matter who that player is, our season is nothing more than a learning experience for the players and coaches this year. As long as we keep getting a little better every week it will be fun to watch.
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Zombo said:
I hear Brady is really going to show his stuff this week. He's going to wear one of Braylon's orange shoes and one of Trautwein's black ones, oil up his guns before the game, and then snatch off his pants everythime DA throws a TD pass, only to reveal Shaun Smith's jockstrap and dance for the Buffalo girls. Word is, with DA set to light up the Bills secondary, those big Buffalo mama's are paying top dollar for the first row behind the Browns bench.Zombo
There is no point in arguing that Quinn stunk the joint up so far this year.
But i'm curious as to what your angle is gonna be after a few games of the usual DA.
God forbid the upper echelon of quality Brownsboard posters would have to consent the fact that they backed the wrong horse.
I'm sure that would be a graceful thread.
But then again i'm sure theres a backup plan to avoid reality.
There is no point in arguing that Quinn stunk the joint up so far this year.
But i'm curious as to what your angle is gonna be after a few games of the usual DA.
God forbid the upper echelon of quality Brownsboard posters would have to consent the fact that they backed the wrong horse.
I'm sure that would be a graceful thread.
But then again i'm sure theres a backup plan to avoid reality.
I take it you haven't read the 200+ posts on Brady Quinn's cleats.
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With all the talk about Brady Quinn being traded now, and some thinking we wouldn't even get much, I have to ask. Do you REALLY think he got a fair shot to prove what he can do? He had 2 1/2 games with TERRIBLE play calling, no running back, and one wide receiver who drops everything thrown his way. I don't feel he was given a chance, and I while I hope DA goes on to become the next Dan Marino, I also hope somebody gives BQ a shot to see what he can become. It just amazes me how he got jerked around the last few years, and then wasn't even given the opportunity he sat on the bench waiting for, for all that time. BQ's failure in the first couple games was more the OC's fault than his. I wish him well. But if I were him, I'd be pissed. Your thoughts?
With all the talk about Brady Quinn being traded now, and some thinking we wouldn't even get much, I have to ask. Do you REALLY think he got a fair shot to prove what he can do? He had 2 1/2 games with TERRIBLE play calling, no running back, and one wide receiver who drops everything thrown his way. I don't feel he was given a chance, and I while I hope DA goes on to become the next Dan Marino, I also hope somebody gives BQ a shot to see what he can become. It just amazes me how he got jerked around the last few years, and then wasn't even given the opportunity he sat on the bench waiting for, for all that time. BQ's failure in the first couple games was more the OC's fault than his. I wish him well. But if I were him, I'd be pissed. Your thoughts?
It's ok. When Anderson implodes again and again, Quinn will be back out there.
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Masters said:
Sounds like both QB on the Browns roster.If you haven't played live games at QB, you are essentially a rookie, imo.
He has played in live games and he looked EXACTLY like he looked in training camp and preseason for the past 3 years. The difference is, defenses were actually playing starting in week one and he didn't get away with the crap he did in preseason when he posted those amazingly average numbers. And tell Aaron Rogers, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer that sitting for a few years hurt their game. It does NOTHING but help and you are nowhere near rookie status when you finally step on the field. In all actuality, when he came in last year against Denver I expected a lot better at that point. If he were anything, he would have lit up what was possibly the weakest defense in the last 10 years. Especially after sitting for 2-1/2 years. He's a bust and most of us knew that for sure after 1 season.
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After spring, summer & preseason they decided he was the better QB.
I have strong doubts about that. It is almost beyond comprehension that someone could watch Quinn and Anderson play QB one after another and come to the conclusion that there is anything whatsoever that Quinn does better.
I have strong doubts about that. It is almost beyond comprehension that someone could watch Quinn and Anderson play QB one after another and come to the conclusion that there is anything whatsoever that Quinn does better.
EXCELLENT!!! Now I know why everyone hates you Lum! Because you make sense and it doesn't bode well for Quinnies!!!!!!!!!
If they switched jerseys for one day, people would be raving about how good 10 looks and how bad 3 looks. It's all about the handsome mug behind the facemask. Quinnies don't even watch the game. They just look for excuses why their blind support for a QB with ZERO NFL ability hasn't paid off. Depressing.
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I have strong doubts about that. It is almost beyond comprehension that someone could watch Quinn and Anderson play QB one after another and come to the conclusion that there is anything whatsoever that Quinn does better.
Apparently CLE coaches did that (you can doubt, but trotting Quinn out as the starter at the beginning of the season goes against your doubt).
Based on preseason (I am well aware preseason means little to nothing), Quinn moved the team better. That obviously hasn't been the case in live games so far.
Masters said:
Apparently CLE coaches did that (you can doubt, but trotting Quinn out as the starter at the beginning of the season goes against your doubt).Based on preseason (I am well aware preseason means little to nothing), Quinn moved the team better. That obviously hasn't been the case in live games so far.
This is one of those delusional posts that drive me absolutely INSANE!!!!! Quinn, in no way, shape, or form moved the team better. He did have less interceptions so good for him. But the only times he moved the team even sopmewhat well was against 2nd team defenses. He absolutely positively did not move the team better. Every drive that DA had, we kept on moving downfield. Yes, interceptions were there but he did, beyond a shadow of a doubt, move the team better. You can say that you liked Quinn better, but please don't try and say he moved the team better that is just fabricated shameless BS.
This kills me because that is one of the CONCRETE reasons I know he will never be good. I went to three training camp sessions this year and have watched every preseason and regular season game and he has looked EXACTLY the same in all situations. He looks EXACTLY the same as he did in his rookie year! The same things that he did poorly in practice and preseason he was doing in the regular season. That is why ANYBODY who actually watches football without a hard on for ol' #10 can see that the kid has peaked and will NEVER be a productive starter in this league.
DA may not be the hero we have all been waiting for but he is without a doubt, a better QB than Quinn. And the argument that he needs to develope is horse-shit. It's his 3rd year. If he were half of what Quinnies think and hope he is, he would have done SOMETHING while on the field. I mean, he did absolutely nothing with his time! Please people, let it die. The kid is just another in a looooong list of Savage's big swings and misses. He is not the exception..............................................I'm spent.
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Zombo said:
It's going to be ... it sure is nice to win football games again!Zombo
That is an excellent stand.
Stay true to your beleif and as wishy washy as reply as yours was how could any body back baby into a corner.
My say? whatever!
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The Ravens were at least scoring enough points to win some games.... Don't forget they made it to the AFC champioship last year.
Some of those first 6 weeks the O was some, but from little to no help from Flacco (let's not pretend the Browns D and running game is even in the same league as the Ravens). My simple point is, 5 1/2 games isn't enough time to judge a QB, and the Ravens are better off for not having that type of mentality.
Masters said:
Some of those first 6 weeks the O was some, but from little to no help from Flacco (let's not pretend the Browns D and running game is even in the same league as the Ravens). My simple point is, 5 1/2 games isn't enough time to judge a QB, and the Ravens are better off for not having that type of mentality.This is his 3rd year here; so I think he should have been more obvious in practice on a daily basis which he wasn't. Everybody fussed Mangini took too long to make a decision. As much as I wanted Quinn to show me this guy I had hoped we drafted - there was a reason Mangini didn't just hand him the job. Had Quinn made it blatantly obvious that would have been extremely easy to do at any point in time. That being the case, he counted every throw in practice and games from the time training camp started right up until the QB change.
I remembered posting when all the rumors were it was going to be Quinn (with me firmly entrenched in his corner) that the starting job wasn't going to be decided in training camp as much as it is decided by who can make this team win more consistently. Well, we weren't even competitive with Quinn while we took a 3-1 team to OT with the alternative.
I'm not directing this at you Masters; but we have WAY too many people worrying about Loverboy delivering his sarcastic "ladies and gentlemen of the jury" speech instead of WHO actually upped everyone's game on Sunday. Quinn started the first 3 games and it looked like we were attacking people with pawns so we got our checkmate verdicts by the 2nd and 3rd quarters. DA started the 4th game and erased a 14 point deficit while it looked like we had alot more than just pawns to attack the opponent with. You throw to those deeper targets and it moves safeties out of the box, which improved daylight for our RB. BTW, our oline CAN block folks.
Speaking of oline, has anyone even noticed that Joe Thomas completely shutout 2 elite pass rushers this season? The only time I heard Jared Allen's name in the opener was when they announced starting lineups. Same thing with Atwaan Odom from Cincy. For all the sacks those 2 stud have - they got ZERO vrs Joe Thomas.
Where I start to get annoyed is when I hear people say our coaching sucks, our oline sucks, our running game sucks, our receivers suck, our playcalling sucks - all for the mere convenience of Quinn hasn't had a chance to succeed this year. The funny thing is all those gripes disappeared like a Houdini rabbitt last Sunday. ALL QBs have audibles as well primary, secondary, tertiary and even the quad dump-off targets on any given pass play. Quinn seemed to heavily favor the closer targets which left me pondering is he even LOOKING at the primary or secondary targets on deeper pass plays?
- Tom F.
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Masters said:
Apparently CLE coaches did that (you can doubt, but trotting Quinn out as the starter at the beginning of the season goes against your doubt).Based on preseason (I am well aware preseason means little to nothing), Quinn moved the team better. That obviously hasn't been the case in live games so far.
This is one of those delusional posts that drive me absolutely INSANE!!!!! Quinn, in no way, shape, or form moved the team better. He did have less interceptions so good for him. But the only times he moved the team even sopmewhat well was against 2nd team defenses. He absolutely positively did not move the team better. Every drive that DA had, we kept on moving downfield. Yes, interceptions were there but he did, beyond a shadow of a doubt, move the team better. You can say that you liked Quinn better, but please don't try and say he moved the team better that is just fabricated shameless BS.
This kills me because that is one of the CONCRETE reasons I know he will never be good. I went to three training camp sessions this year and have watched every preseason and regular season game and he has looked EXACTLY the same in all situations. He looks EXACTLY the same as he did in his rookie year! The same things that he did poorly in practice and preseason he was doing in the regular season. That is why ANYBODY who actually watches football without a hard on for ol' #10 can see that the kid has peaked and will NEVER be a productive starter in this league.
DA may not be the hero we have all been waiting for but he is without a doubt, a better QB than Quinn. And the argument that he needs to develope is horse-shit. It's his 3rd year. If he were half of what Quinnies think and hope he is, he would have done SOMETHING while on the field. I mean, he did absolutely nothing with his time! Please people, let it die. The kid is just another in a looooong list of Savage's big swings and misses. He is not the exception..............................................I'm spent.
This is one of those delusional posts that drive me absolutely INSANE!!!!! Quinn, in no way, shape, or form moved the team better. He did have less interceptions so good for him. But the only times he moved the team even sopmewhat well was against 2nd team defenses. He absolutely positively did not move the team better. Every drive that DA had, we kept on moving downfield. Yes, interceptions were there but he did, beyond a shadow of a doubt, move the team better. You can say that you liked Quinn better, but please don't try and say he moved the team better that is just fabricated shameless BS.
This kills me because that is one of the CONCRETE reasons I know he will never be good. I went to three training camp sessions this year and have watched every preseason and regular season game and he has looked EXACTLY the same in all situations. He looks EXACTLY the same as he did in his rookie year! The same things that he did poorly in practice and preseason he was doing in the regular season. That is why ANYBODY who actually watches football without a hard on for ol' #10 can see that the kid has peaked and will NEVER be a productive starter in this league.
DA may not be the hero we have all been waiting for but he is without a doubt, a better QB than Quinn. And the argument that he needs to develope is horse-shit. It's his 3rd year. If he were half of what Quinnies think and hope he is, he would have done SOMETHING while on the field. I mean, he did absolutely nothing with his time! Please people, let it die. The kid is just another in a looooong list of Savage's big swings and misses. He is not the exception..............................................I'm spent.
So...quinn is a swing and a miss but DA, somehow isn't. LOL. Love is blind. I know.
(PS, it's DAs 4th year. I don't think he needs any time to develop either; certainly, lack of snaps and chemistry shouldn't be an excuse. And moving the team better doesn't == wins. We're still 0-4).
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