Yuck to the TOP QB prospect!!!
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Hey, did you just add that line about my being an ND fan? I didn't see it before. I don't see a reason why what college team we like should have any impact on this debate. One guy had an incredible season despite the players around him. One guy had an incredible season because of the players around him. That's how I see it. That's how scouts saw it. That's how teams drafted.
At the risk of interjecting another dog into this fight, I'd offer to you that being a fan of ND or Ohio State is entirely relevant in the discussion. I personally don't trust myself to give an opinion about Texas players because I worry that I don't see them objectively. I try to stay out of discussions regarding the pro prospects of the Horns as I tend to be more critical of them than others might be. The reaction to positive or negative criticism of a favorite college team (especially if you're an alum) is a very visceral one and I can't expect the fact to be irrelevant.
At the risk of interjecting another dog into this fight, I'd offer to you that being a fan of ND or Ohio State is entirely relevant in the discussion. I personally don't trust myself to give an opinion about Texas players because I worry that I don't see them objectively. I try to stay out of discussions regarding the pro prospects of the Horns as I tend to be more critical of them than others might be. The reaction to positive or negative criticism of a favorite college team (especially if you're an alum) is a very visceral one and I can't expect the fact to be irrelevant.
LOL! I hear ya Earl. That's why I brought up the differences in what college teams we followed because it's like we're 2 different religions arguing which messiah leads us to the promise land - mine or his. We are both patriotic to our favorite guy from our favorite program in this debate. I think T has been very respectful throughout this so I don't see it as a fight (Battle of Troy) as much as us both trying to clarify where we are coming from.
Trodgers,
FWIW - I wanted Quinn to have a great year in 09 so I could feel like we were finally set at QB. That never went the way I wanted it to. I think I'm pretty much where you are at with not wanting to draft a QB in round 1 but feeling like we need to bring in someone to compete for the job. We can either go the route of a later round or see what we can get to come in from another team.
- Tom F.
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I watched Brees in college, primarily when he played against OSU. He was insanely accurate and made me wonder why nobody thought he could play in the pros. He is probably a couple of inches taller than troy
Troy was a great athlete that became a good QB as time went on. He made some incredible plays but didn't impress me as insanely accurate like brees. I don't think troy did really well in his workouts before the draft which hurt him. But I do think troy can play in the nfl, he is still here
I don't think it was a looks or skin issue but just imho
I watched Brees in college, primarily when he played against OSU. He was insanely accurate and made me wonder why nobody thought he could play in the pros. He is probably a couple of inches taller than troy
Troy was a great athlete that became a good QB as time went on. He made some incredible plays but didn't impress me as insanely accurate like brees. I don't think troy did really well in his workouts before the draft which hurt him. But I do think troy can play in the nfl, he is still here
I don't think it was a looks or skin issue but just imho
They're both listed at 6'0, but Troy does seem smaller than what he is listed. Troy's big appeal is his mobility, whereas Brees is more of a true pocket QB. Don't get me wrong, Brees is mobile enough, but it seems like Troy throws better balls on the run than Brees.
The thing I look at in QB's more than their mechanics is how they cope when things go to shit. I like a QB with good mechanics, who doesn't, but I think a desirable quality in QB's nowadays is their ability to turn a busted play into positive yardage. Many things factor into that, things like mobility, their ability to throw on the run, their field awareness, and their ability to take a hit. I think the NFL is slowly transitioning away from true pocket QB's like Manning, Warner, Favre and Brady. Don't get me wrong, they are still elite QB's, and they always will be. But with the way defenses are evolving and the true freaks of nature being drafted on the defensive side of the ball, it's getting hard for a QB to come in, read a defense correctly pre-snap, then drop back and have a comfortable amount of time to throw. Defenses seem to be harder to read, at least from my point of view.
Essentially, I'm looking for Roethlisberger. He is probably one of the greatest QB's in the history of the NFL when it comes to improvising and turning busted plays into big gains. I think Troy Smith has Roethlisberger-esque qualities. He was born to throw the football on the run. His accuracy could definitely be improved, but it's not altogether terrible. In fact, it's probably better than what we have now in Cleveland. People seem to forget that Troy Smith was in line to become the starter for Baltimore until he got tonsilitis. Then Flacco decided that he wanted to be amazing, and now Troy Smith is just out of luck.
All in all, I'd love to see what he could do for us. I think it would be a welcome addition.
The real question is: is Cleveland ready for a black quarterback? (That's a joke)
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Is Cleveland ready for a black quarterback is a very good question. Since we've been back the only black quarterback has been speurgon wynn lol. Everytime a black qb is mentioned all you hear about is their defeciencies. Mike Vick was a good qb juss ask defensive coordinators around the league. Matter of fact the same people saying that he was no good should look at what we had this year behind center.If we are building a dominant run game we should get a running qb that can throw. (Mike Vick, Troy Smith, Mcnabb, Dixon, Young). Please no more comments about Vick and dogs thats the past he did his time and its time to move on from that.
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Things like that never go away man, the media will be sure to mention it a time or 2, if Vick comes to Cleveland.
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Kolb makes too much sense to dismiss it. His GM will be here so he's got a guy on the inside who not only makes the contracts, he also has a very strong say on personel. If he can get in Mangini's ear, Kolb is here, starting. I wanted him at trade deadline last year.
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Is Cleveland ready for a black quarterback is a very good question. Since we've been back the only black quarterback has been speurgon wynn lol. Everytime a black qb is mentioned all you hear about is their defeciencies. Mike Vick was a good qb juss ask defensive coordinators around the league. Matter of fact the same people saying that he was no good should look at what we had this year behind center.If we are building a dominant run game we should get a running qb that can throw. (Mike Vick, Troy Smith, Mcnabb, Dixon, Young). Please no more comments about Vick and dogs thats the past he did his time and its time to move on from that.
Is Cleveland ready for a black quarterback is a very good question. Since we've been back the only black quarterback has been speurgon wynn lol. Everytime a black qb is mentioned all you hear about is their defeciencies. Mike Vick was a good qb juss ask defensive coordinators around the league. Matter of fact the same people saying that he was no good should look at what we had this year behind center.If we are building a dominant run game we should get a running qb that can throw. (Mike Vick, Troy Smith, Mcnabb, Dixon, Young). Please no more comments about Vick and dogs thats the past he did his time and its time to move on from that.
I don't want a running quarterback who can throw. I want a throwing quarterback who can run.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I think that play really only worked because they were afraid of Vick running the ball. It was a pass out of a WildDawg...something we should do more of with Cribbs because it would make the running game with him even more effective.
I still think Philly looks at Kolb as the future starter and Vick as nothing more than Pat White in Miami or that dude from the Jets last night.
I think that play really only worked because they were afraid of Vick running the ball. It was a pass out of a WildDawg...something we should do more of with Cribbs because it would make the running game with him even more effective.
I still think Philly looks at Kolb as the future starter and Vick as nothing more than Pat White in Miami or that dude from the Jets last night.
I think you just brought up the rationale of why Philly is more confortable with Vick's assets. The difference between Vick and Pat White was Vick was a #1 overall pick due to some surprising arm strength coinciding with his 4.2 speed. Pat White was seen as more of a long term project where he'll have to work to strengthen his arm. He DID lead his team to an NFC Championship Game regardless of how people liked the way he played QB.
I think SOME thought he'd become a poor man's Steve Young on draft day based on the wheels/elusiveness and seeing the accuracy improve when the speed of the game slowed. Let's not forget Steve Young playing QB with track shoes in Tampa wasn't anything like the 28 year old star emerging when he had Rice, Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Rathman and Garner/Hearst as his targets. That didn't happen overnight and maybe a WCO Coach like Andy Reid feels this can be the same change Vick needs to better his accuracy and consistency his critics hold so dearly.
I don't think they would invest the time they are with him right now if they wanted to make Kolb their guy. I can't imagine he's excited when Vick inhibits his reps, growth and experience. I've got a weird vibe one of their QBs gets sent packing and I'm not so sure it's Vick. I've certainly been wrong before when it comes to QBs.
- Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Is Cleveland ready for a black quarterback is a very good question. Since we've been back the only black quarterback has been speurgon wynn lol. Everytime a black qb is mentioned all you hear about is their defeciencies. Mike Vick was a good qb juss ask defensive coordinators around the league. Matter of fact the same people saying that he was no good should look at what we had this year behind center.If we are building a dominant run game we should get a running qb that can throw. (Mike Vick, Troy Smith, Mcnabb, Dixon, Young). Please no more comments about Vick and dogs thats the past he did his time and its time to move on from that.
I don't want a running quarterback who can throw. I want a throwing quarterback who can run.
I don't want a running quarterback who can throw. I want a throwing quarterback who can run.
Good point Couch!
- Tom F.
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Hey, did you just add that line about my being an ND fan? I didn't see it before. I don't see a reason why what college team we like should have any impact on this debate. One guy had an incredible season despite the players around him. One guy had an incredible season because of the players around him. That's how I see it. That's how scouts saw it. That's how teams drafted.
Hey, did you just add that line about my being an ND fan? I didn't see it before. I don't see a reason why what college team we like should have any impact on this debate. One guy had an incredible season despite the players around him. One guy had an incredible season because of the players around him. That's how I see it. That's how scouts saw it. That's how teams drafted.
While you are not reasearching Smith's surroundings, you might as well continue not researching Quinn's surroundings either... all but a couple players on his offense either were drafted, got into NFL camps for a serious look, or spurned the NFL (baseball, ministry), some of them were starting before he got a start. He wasn't alone.
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I think that play really only worked because they were afraid of Vick running the ball. It was a pass out of a WildDawg...something we should do more of with Cribbs because it would make the running game with him even more effective.
I still think Philly looks at Kolb as the future starter and Vick as nothing more than Pat White in Miami or that dude from the Jets last night.
I think you just brought up the rationale of why Philly is more confortable with Vick's assets. The difference between Vick and Pat White was Vick was a #1 overall pick due to some surprising arm strength coinciding with his 4.2 speed. Pat White was seen as more of a long term project where he'll have to work to strengthen his arm. He DID lead his team to an NFC Championship Game regardless of how people liked the way he played QB.
I think SOME thought he'd become a poor man's Steve Young on draft day based on the wheels/elusiveness and seeing the accuracy improve when the speed of the game slowed. Let's not forget Steve Young playing QB with track shoes in Tampa wasn't anything like the 28 year old star emerging when he had Rice, Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Rathman and Garner/Hearst as his targets. That didn't happen overnight and maybe a WCO Coach like Andy Reid feels this can be the same change Vick needs to better his accuracy and consistency his critics hold so dearly.
I don't think they would invest the time they are with him right now if they wanted to make Kolb their guy. I can't imagine he's excited when Vick inhibits his reps, growth and experience. I've got a weird vibe one of their QBs gets sent packing and I'm not so sure it's Vick. I've certainly been wrong before when it comes to QBs.
- Tom F.
I think you just brought up the rationale of why Philly is more confortable with Vick's assets. The difference between Vick and Pat White was Vick was a #1 overall pick due to some surprising arm strength coinciding with his 4.2 speed. Pat White was seen as more of a long term project where he'll have to work to strengthen his arm. He DID lead his team to an NFC Championship Game regardless of how people liked the way he played QB.
I think SOME thought he'd become a poor man's Steve Young on draft day based on the wheels/elusiveness and seeing the accuracy improve when the speed of the game slowed. Let's not forget Steve Young playing QB with track shoes in Tampa wasn't anything like the 28 year old star emerging when he had Rice, Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Rathman and Garner/Hearst as his targets. That didn't happen overnight and maybe a WCO Coach like Andy Reid feels this can be the same change Vick needs to better his accuracy and consistency his critics hold so dearly.
I don't think they would invest the time they are with him right now if they wanted to make Kolb their guy. I can't imagine he's excited when Vick inhibits his reps, growth and experience. I've got a weird vibe one of their QBs gets sent packing and I'm not so sure it's Vick. I've certainly been wrong before when it comes to QBs.
- Tom F.
I think one of them is ending up in St. Louis. I really believe it will be Vick, I don't know why. All the signs point to no, but I just feel like Vick could start over in St. Louis. The offensive line in St. Louis is bad, and it's going to take at least another season for it to get any better. They've got some decent rookies, with Jason Smith, Phil Trautwein and Roger Allen. John Greco from Youngstown is young as well, but I don't know how long he'll start. Eric Young is still very young as well. Basically, they've got a handful of youngins, and no real experience. Alex Barron is unquestionably the most talented vet on that line, and that's not saying too much. I think a quarterback of Vick's caliber could go a long way to improving their record for the next couple of seasons. He's not really a stop-gap, because he still has some years on him. But he's also not a long-term QB, either. They could pick up Vick and groom another QB behind him. Maybe a Ryan Mallet or Greg McElroy in next year's draft. I think he would come pretty cheap, too.
That's just what I believe.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Al Davis will want Mike Vick in the end. All the raiders actually need is a QB right now, they also might need some lineman but they have a good D and a young and up and coming Offense. Vick would be a savior in the eyes of Al Davis.
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Al Davis will want Mike Vick in the end. All the raiders actually need is a QB right now, they also might need some lineman but they have a good D and a young and up and coming Offense. Vick would be a savior in the eyes of Al Davis.
Al Davis will want Mike Vick in the end. All the raiders actually need is a QB right now, they also might need some lineman but they have a good D and a young and up and coming Offense. Vick would be a savior in the eyes of Al Davis.
You know, it's funny. I never once gave Oakland any consideration in the Mike Vick front. That's a good point, Al Davis is probably drooling over Vick. Then again, he's 850 years old. He drools constantly.
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He still rocks the shit out of those kick ass jump suits though.
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He still rocks the shit out of those kick ass jump suits though.
He still rocks the shit out of those kick ass jump suits though.
He has to. They're the only things keeping his body together.
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Hey, did you just add that line about my being an ND fan? I didn't see it before. I don't see a reason why what college team we like should have any impact on this debate. One guy had an incredible season despite the players around him. One guy had an incredible season because of the players around him. That's how I see it. That's how scouts saw it. That's how teams drafted.
While you are not reasearching Smith's surroundings, you might as well continue not researching Quinn's surroundings either... all but a couple players on his offense either were drafted, got into NFL camps for a serious look, or spurned the NFL (baseball, ministry), some of them were starting before he got a start. He wasn't alone.
While you are not reasearching Smith's surroundings, you might as well continue not researching Quinn's surroundings either... all but a couple players on his offense either were drafted, got into NFL camps for a serious look, or spurned the NFL (baseball, ministry), some of them were starting before he got a start. He wasn't alone.
Did you watch every game of Quinn's career, and nearly every ND game for the past 25 years? If not, you probably aren't better equipped to pronounce judgments on ND's personnel when Quinn was there than I am. ND had a solid offensive line, a good TE, a solid WR, and a very good QB. You can believe what you will, but everyone who watched Notre Dame regularly saw that he was, far and away, the best player on that team.
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I pretty sure Suh and Berry will be gone when we pick but I can't stand the thought of Jimmy Clausen being the #1 projected QB. You know how it takes at least 10 beers to turn a female cornhusker into a hottie? I'd need about 18-24 beers to like what I see in Jimmy Clausen's game as a football player. I think the kid from Central Michigan (LeFever) sees the field better whereas Golden Tate's unbelieveable athleticism allowed Clausen to lock onto his favorite target most of the time. In addition, I think he throws too many flutter balls which translates into picks at the next level. There's just something about him I don't like.
Will this be a year where there's QB gems after round 1?
This goes to anyone that wants to answer it - What would be your ideal first 3 rounds for the Browns in the 2010 Draft?
- Tom F.
Tom I agree- Suh will not last past Detroit if the Rams opt best qb on the board. If the Rams and Lions both go D, Suh and Berry may well be the first two prospects off the board. Find it hard to rationalize the Browns would go to the ND well twice in a row. Bradford scares me with his injury history, McCoy got himself hurt in the NC game so ditto there. So no qb in the first round for me, thank you very much.
Browns needs- IMHO
1) stud pass rusher
2) legit #1 wr
3) enforcer safety (don't see Berry falling this far)
4) shut down corner (this is my bet where the Browns draft Hayden to go with Wright)
5) RT (the Browns will seriously consider Okung here if he's still on the board)
6) stud LB
7) developmental qb. The Browns have 3 third rounders- LeFevere or Pike if they're still here.
Tom I agree- Suh will not last past Detroit if the Rams opt best qb on the board. If the Rams and Lions both go D, Suh and Berry may well be the first two prospects off the board. Find it hard to rationalize the Browns would go to the ND well twice in a row. Bradford scares me with his injury history, McCoy got himself hurt in the NC game so ditto there. So no qb in the first round for me, thank you very much.
Browns needs- IMHO
1) stud pass rusher
2) legit #1 wr
3) enforcer safety (don't see Berry falling this far)
4) shut down corner (this is my bet where the Browns draft Hayden to go with Wright)
5) RT (the Browns will seriously consider Okung here if he's still on the board)
6) stud LB
7) developmental qb. The Browns have 3 third rounders- LeFevere or Pike if they're still here.
trent williams or bruce campbell with the army of darkness
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I hope the Browns draft either Haden or one of the O-linemen.
We need studs on the O-line - without an O-line it doesn't matter who's at QB or RB. Thomas is great; Steinbach and Mack are good.
Wright is a great #2 CB, McCutcheon is a great #3.. with Haden, the defensive backfield instantly improves tremendously.
Unless he's drafted already, they need Haden. If he's taken, pick Okung.. third option is Williams.
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I hope the Browns draft either Haden or one of the O-linemen.
We need studs on the O-line - without an O-line it doesn't matter who's at QB or RB. Thomas is great; Steinbach and Mack are good.
Wright is a great #2 CB, McCutcheon is a great #3.. with Haden, the defensive backfield instantly improves tremendously.
Unless he's drafted already, they need Haden. If he's taken, pick Okung.. third option is Williams.
I hope the Browns draft either Haden or one of the O-linemen.
We need studs on the O-line - without an O-line it doesn't matter who's at QB or RB. Thomas is great; Steinbach and Mack are good.
Wright is a great #2 CB, McCutcheon is a great #3.. with Haden, the defensive backfield instantly improves tremendously.
Unless he's drafted already, they need Haden. If he's taken, pick Okung.. third option is Williams.
Daylon McCutcheon retired after the 2007 season. After we released him. Did you mean McDonald?
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I think you just brought up the rationale of why Philly is more confortable with Vick's assets. The difference between Vick and Pat White was Vick was a #1 overall pick due to some surprising arm strength coinciding with his 4.2 speed. Pat White was seen as more of a long term project where he'll have to work to strengthen his arm. He DID lead his team to an NFC Championship Game regardless of how people liked the way he played QB.
I think SOME thought he'd become a poor man's Steve Young on draft day based on the wheels/elusiveness and seeing the accuracy improve when the speed of the game slowed. Let's not forget Steve Young playing QB with track shoes in Tampa wasn't anything like the 28 year old star emerging when he had Rice, Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Rathman and Garner/Hearst as his targets. That didn't happen overnight and maybe a WCO Coach like Andy Reid feels this can be the same change Vick needs to better his accuracy and consistency his critics hold so dearly.
I don't think they would invest the time they are with him right now if they wanted to make Kolb their guy. I can't imagine he's excited when Vick inhibits his reps, growth and experience. I've got a weird vibe one of their QBs gets sent packing and I'm not so sure it's Vick. I've certainly been wrong before when it comes to QBs.
- Tom F.
I think one of them is ending up in St. Louis. I really believe it will be Vick, I don't know why. All the signs point to no, but I just feel like Vick could start over in St. Louis. The offensive line in St. Louis is bad, and it's going to take at least another season for it to get any better. They've got some decent rookies, with Jason Smith, Phil Trautwein and Roger Allen. John Greco from Youngstown is young as well, but I don't know how long he'll start. Eric Young is still very young as well. Basically, they've got a handful of youngins, and no real experience. Alex Barron is unquestionably the most talented vet on that line, and that's not saying too much. I think a quarterback of Vick's caliber could go a long way to improving their record for the next couple of seasons. He's not really a stop-gap, because he still has some years on him. But he's also not a long-term QB, either. They could pick up Vick and groom another QB behind him. Maybe a Ryan Mallet or Greg McElroy in next year's draft. I think he would come pretty cheap, too.
That's just what I believe.
I think one of them is ending up in St. Louis. I really believe it will be Vick, I don't know why. All the signs point to no, but I just feel like Vick could start over in St. Louis. The offensive line in St. Louis is bad, and it's going to take at least another season for it to get any better. They've got some decent rookies, with Jason Smith, Phil Trautwein and Roger Allen. John Greco from Youngstown is young as well, but I don't know how long he'll start. Eric Young is still very young as well. Basically, they've got a handful of youngins, and no real experience. Alex Barron is unquestionably the most talented vet on that line, and that's not saying too much. I think a quarterback of Vick's caliber could go a long way to improving their record for the next couple of seasons. He's not really a stop-gap, because he still has some years on him. But he's also not a long-term QB, either. They could pick up Vick and groom another QB behind him. Maybe a Ryan Mallet or Greg McElroy in next year's draft. I think he would come pretty cheap, too.
That's just what I believe.
You make some interesting points Couch Pulls! Remember what people thought of Steve Young when he left Tampa Bay? In Tampa his nickname was "the Running Man." Young wrote in his autobiography that he started believing what he was reading in the media that he had small hands which weren't compatible with humdity and slippery footballs. Something alon g that line. Was that REALLY the case or did he just need surroundings like Jerry Rice, John Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Tom Rathman, Garrison Hearst and Charlie Garner? You get guys like that around you with some All Pro blockers in front of you and suddenly you're not thinking: "Should I stay or should I go" in that pocket (or outside it) any more.
Not saying Vick is going to be the next Steve Young - but it's worth noting what an overwhelming majority thought of him as an NFL QB before he was about 28 years old. You could be right about the Rams or Philly could be grooming him for more of the offense as they contemplate gettign rid of the Donovan McNabb the fans never even embraced on draft day (because of some RB that would eventually require a marijuana sabbatical named Ricky). I don't know what McNabb's latest contract status is in terms of commitment. If he stays, it keeps Kolb at #3 and if he goes I think it pormotes Vick into the driver seat. That only leaves an unhappy Kevin Kolb and agent.
The ONLY thing I'll say about Troy Smith is that because of where he was drafted - he's a low risk addition at garage sale prices. I don't think I have any legs to stand on if I'm arguing on behalf of either QB we had to start in 2009. If that's not enough, we're reading about Quinn's injury and the uncertainty of it returning after 2 consecutive trips to IR.
- Tom F
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I think one of them is ending up in St. Louis. I really believe it will be Vick, I don't know why. All the signs point to no, but I just feel like Vick could start over in St. Louis. The offensive line in St. Louis is bad, and it's going to take at least another season for it to get any better. They've got some decent rookies, with Jason Smith, Phil Trautwein and Roger Allen. John Greco from Youngstown is young as well, but I don't know how long he'll start. Eric Young is still very young as well. Basically, they've got a handful of youngins, and no real experience. Alex Barron is unquestionably the most talented vet on that line, and that's not saying too much. I think a quarterback of Vick's caliber could go a long way to improving their record for the next couple of seasons. He's not really a stop-gap, because he still has some years on him. But he's also not a long-term QB, either. They could pick up Vick and groom another QB behind him. Maybe a Ryan Mallet or Greg McElroy in next year's draft. I think he would come pretty cheap, too.
That's just what I believe.
You make some interesting points Couch Pulls! Remember what people thought of Steve Young when he left Tampa Bay? In Tampa his nickname was "the Running Man." Young wrote in his autobiography that he started believing what he was reading in the media that he had small hands which weren't compatible with humdity and slippery footballs. Something alon g that line. Was that REALLY the case or did he just need surroundings like Jerry Rice, John Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Tom Rathman, Garrison Hearst and Charlie Garner? You get guys like that around you with some All Pro blockers in front of you and suddenly you're not thinking: "Should I stay or should I go" in that pocket (or outside it) any more.
Not saying Vick is going to be the next Steve Young - but it's worth noting what an overwhelming majority thought of him as an NFL QB before he was about 28 years old. You could be right about the Rams or Philly could be grooming him for more of the offense as they contemplate gettign rid of the Donovan McNabb the fans never even embraced on draft day (because of some RB that would eventually require a marijuana sabbatical named Ricky). I don't know what McNabb's latest contract status is in terms of commitment. If he stays, it keeps Kolb at #3 and if he goes I think it pormotes Vick into the driver seat. That only leaves an unhappy Kevin Kolb and agent.
The ONLY thing I'll say about Troy Smith is that because of where he was drafted - he's a low risk addition at garage sale prices. I don't think I have any legs to stand on if I'm arguing on behalf of either QB we had to start in 2009. If that's not enough, we're reading about Quinn's injury and the uncertainty of it returning after 2 consecutive trips to IR.
- Tom F
You make some interesting points Couch Pulls! Remember what people thought of Steve Young when he left Tampa Bay? In Tampa his nickname was "the Running Man." Young wrote in his autobiography that he started believing what he was reading in the media that he had small hands which weren't compatible with humdity and slippery footballs. Something alon g that line. Was that REALLY the case or did he just need surroundings like Jerry Rice, John Taylor, TO, Brent Jones, Tom Rathman, Garrison Hearst and Charlie Garner? You get guys like that around you with some All Pro blockers in front of you and suddenly you're not thinking: "Should I stay or should I go" in that pocket (or outside it) any more.
Not saying Vick is going to be the next Steve Young - but it's worth noting what an overwhelming majority thought of him as an NFL QB before he was about 28 years old. You could be right about the Rams or Philly could be grooming him for more of the offense as they contemplate gettign rid of the Donovan McNabb the fans never even embraced on draft day (because of some RB that would eventually require a marijuana sabbatical named Ricky). I don't know what McNabb's latest contract status is in terms of commitment. If he stays, it keeps Kolb at #3 and if he goes I think it pormotes Vick into the driver seat. That only leaves an unhappy Kevin Kolb and agent.
The ONLY thing I'll say about Troy Smith is that because of where he was drafted - he's a low risk addition at garage sale prices. I don't think I have any legs to stand on if I'm arguing on behalf of either QB we had to start in 2009. If that's not enough, we're reading about Quinn's injury and the uncertainty of it returning after 2 consecutive trips to IR.
- Tom F
Tom,
I am not disagreeing, well, okay...perhaps a little bit.
First off, despite all of his troubles, Ricky Williams has shown that he could have been a tremendous HOF level RB. He rushed for 1883 yards in 2003 and his renaissance after age 30 was the subject of a feel good comeback story. He was the real deal. Mike Ditka made him into the farce that he became and then Ricky added the Mary Jane.
Second, I would say that in his college years and early career, Michael Vick was arguably one of the five most exciting football players I'd ever seen. He was not a great QB but he had very good mechanics and athleticism. Lest we forget that Michael Vick led the Falcons to the playoffs and beat Favre and the Pack at Lambeau for the first time ever. He was voted to two Pro Bowls and ran for more yards than any other QB except Randall Cunningham and Steve Young. I am not saying that Michael Vick was a great (or even good) QB (rumor has it that 95% of the Virginia Tech playbook had to be thrown out because he couldn't learn it) but he did win football games under Dan Reeves and he put butts in the seats. Can he recapture any of that? I don't know. Even though I was never a fan of his teams, I always would stop when I saw he was on to see what he'd do next. He has actually accomplished something in this league which can't be said for everyone. This isn't an endorsement of him so the Browns can trade for him but rather a fan that wants some fairness in depicting his resume (good or bad).
Troy Smith, on the other hand, suffers from a different problem. His resume is limited. I wouldn't say that there's enough evidence to say that he can't play NFL level QB and if a favorable contract was to be forged, he could have a chance. I think that, in part, Troy Smith suffered the same problem as Chris Simms after Simms ruptured his spleen. He lost a lot of weight after his illness and it was an opportunity for an organization to write off someone that they were lukewarm about "just because". He otherwise was supposedly to get a chance to play before it all happened.
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