Jeff Davidson
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We'll rich ... if I had steve smith, musin muhamed, jonathan Stewart, and deangelo williams with 3 1st rounders on the line with the center from USC kalil who by all counts was supposed to be a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder on the O-line....I could QB that team!
We'll rich ... if I had steve smith, musin muhamed, jonathan Stewart, and deangelo williams with 3 1st rounders on the line with the center from USC kalil who by all counts was supposed to be a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder on the O-line....I could QB that team!
That's precisely the Brown's problem. They have not drafted well or got the right pieces in FA.
:neutral_face: -
Jeff Otah
J Stewart
Jon Beason
DeAngelo Williams
Thomas Davis
Chris Gamble
Jordan Gross
Julius Peppers
all recent first round picks by the Panthers. I'd trade our drafts for theirs in a split second.
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Now that you are done with all the rationalizing.........move on and tell us all how Pittsburghs OLINE is the reason they are 11-3 and NE's OLINE is the reason they won all those Super Bowls with two FA's on the OLINE
Now that you are done with all the rationalizing.........move on and tell us all how Pittsburghs OLINE is the reason they are 11-3 and NE's OLINE is the reason they won all those Super Bowls with two FA's on the OLINE
PITs D and Ben getting the score in the clutch is why they are 11-3. Sure ain't their Oline. Because Ben has been on his back half the season and statistically on O PIT is in the bottom half of the league (both in rush and pass).
Any other brain busters you want to use to dodge the point?
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We'll rich ... if I had steve smith, musin muhamed, jonathan Stewart, and deangelo williams with 3 1st rounders on the line with the center from USC kalil who by all counts was supposed to be a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder on the O-line....I could QB that team!
That's precisely the Brown's problem. They have not drafted well or got the right pieces in FA.
That's precisely the Brown's problem. They have not drafted well or got the right pieces in FA.
Glad there a few Browns fans who get...............your post is a great relief...........among those who think things are swimmingly well
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I'll give you props on warning us of a bad year....you did say we had an awful easy schedule last year and had a bunch of second team Qb's playin us....nice call rich. as to dime o dozen theory....watever(dead horse)...we will draft skill players this year, i.e. RB,LB corner and possibly wr.
I swear if we don't go LB in first I'll scream for savages head with you!!! REY 09'
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I'll give you props on warning us of a bad year....you did say we had an awful easy schedule last year and had a bunch of second team Qb's playin us....nice call rich. as to dime o dozen theory....watever(dead horse)...we will draft skill players this year, i.e. RB,LB corner and possibly wr.
I swear if we don't go LB in first I'll scream for savages head with you!!! REY 09'
I'll give you props on warning us of a bad year....you did say we had an awful easy schedule last year and had a bunch of second team Qb's playin us....nice call rich. as to dime o dozen theory....watever(dead horse)...we will draft skill players this year, i.e. RB,LB corner and possibly wr.
I swear if we don't go LB in first I'll scream for savages head with you!!! REY 09'
Thanks...........and indeed an impact LB is what I call a disruptive player so yes indeed they can and should be considered for top picks.......we need guys who touch the ball and some depth there........
lets hope Sewage is gone when draft day comes
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So we both want the same thing.......except you are voting to keep a moron and I do indeed want to move on and keep moving on until we get it right
SEWAGE stinks big .........oh uyeahs
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dats right da ich be getting it.......big time and correctamundo..........sewage is coffee fetcher and some have amnesia.........tell me again who has football acumen..........thomas be fat slug what is peterson doin
da ich, da ich, da ich is on fire!!!
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Jeff Davidson was shafted here, yes, I'll admit it.
When he took over the offense it got WORSE.
Grant it he stuck with Carthon's O schemes because he felt he couldn't change mid season and the players make adjustments.
Maybe Romeo felt he liked Carton's O and made Davis stick with it.
Who knows.
This whole team is f$$ked up from front office down to the janitorial staff at Berea that is supposed to be cleaning up the place so the players don't get staph.
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Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
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Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
I think this is total cap numbers, but:
Panthers:
LT-Jordan Gross $7,459,920
LG-Travelle Wharton $12,850,000
C-Ryan Kalil $799,880
RG-Keydrick Vincent $1,130,000
RT-Jeff Otah $2,253,750
Total: $23,773,550
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/carolina-panthers/salary
Browns:
LT-Joe Thomas $8,800,000
LG-Eric Steinbach $7,600,000
C-Hank Fraley $1,650,000
RG-Rex Hadnot $3,950,000
RT-Kevin Shaffer $3,350,000
Total: $25,350,000
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Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
For what its worth:
Super Bowl Champion NY Giants:
LT- David Diehl $4,100,000
LG- Chris Snee $14,890,000
C-Shaun O'Hara $1,900,000
RG-Rich Seubert $4,350,000
RT-Kareem McKenzie $3,750,000
Total: $28,990,000
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/new-york-giants/salary
A quick check of many teams the only one who seems to be under $10,000,000 is the Patriots..don't hold me to that though...but they're close...
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Good work Titlest
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Rich,
Can you put up the salary numbers for both Carolina's O-line and Cleveland's O-line?
Are you saying we are spending a 100 Million and they are spending only 10's of Millions (or less?)?
I'm interested in seeing your point, thanks.
I think this is total cap numbers, but:
Panthers:
LT-Jordan Gross $7,459,920
LG-Travelle Wharton $12,850,000
C-Ryan Kalil $799,880
RG-Keydrick Vincent $1,130,000
RT-Jeff Otah $2,253,750
Total: $23,773,550
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/carolina-panthers/salary
Browns:
LT-Joe Thomas $8,800,000
LG-Eric Steinbach $7,600,000
C-Hank Fraley $1,650,000
RG-Rex Hadnot $3,950,000
RT-Kevin Shaffer $3,350,000
Total: $25,350,000
I think this is total cap numbers, but:
Panthers:
LT-Jordan Gross $7,459,920
LG-Travelle Wharton $12,850,000
C-Ryan Kalil $799,880
RG-Keydrick Vincent $1,130,000
RT-Jeff Otah $2,253,750
Total: $23,773,550
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/carolina-panthers/salary
Browns:
LT-Joe Thomas $8,800,000
LG-Eric Steinbach $7,600,000
C-Hank Fraley $1,650,000
RG-Rex Hadnot $3,950,000
RT-Kevin Shaffer $3,350,000
Total: $25,350,000
Shocking. Da Ich is 100% incorrectomondo.
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I think this is total cap numbers, but:
Panthers:
LT-Jordan Gross $7,459,920
LG-Travelle Wharton $12,850,000
C-Ryan Kalil $799,880
RG-Keydrick Vincent $1,130,000
RT-Jeff Otah $2,253,750
Total: $23,773,550
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/carolina-panthers/salary
Browns:
LT-Joe Thomas $8,800,000
LG-Eric Steinbach $7,600,000
C-Hank Fraley $1,650,000
RG-Rex Hadnot $3,950,000
RT-Kevin Shaffer $3,350,000
Total: $25,350,000
Shocking. Da Ich is 100% incorrectomondo.
Masters said:
Shocking. Da Ich is 100% incorrectomondo.I look forward to his spin on this one..
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Masters said:
Shocking. Da Ich is 100% incorrectomondo.I look forward to his spin on this one..
I look forward to his spin on this one..
He won't spin it. He will avoid it and come back complaining about accepting losing, Savage, getting it big time, playmakers, etc.
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I look forward to his spin on this one..
He won't spin it. He will avoid it and come back complaining about accepting losing, Savage, getting it big time, playmakers, etc.
Masters said:
He won't spin it. He will avoid it and come back complaining about accepting losing, Savage, getting it big time, playmakers, etc.I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
It's almost like you guys know this dude or something.
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dis be typical........da herd telling doze of us that get it.........often and regular or sumtin.........keep tryin and remember 36 years ago da Browns be good.
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Are we talking about the same CAR that has a 1st round pick at LT and RT, along with a 2nd and 3rd at C and G?
I'll give Davidson all the credit in the world for finally using DeAngelo after he was wasted for two years behind an aging Foster.
But as usual, your dime a dozen argument is washed up, since the team you used doesnt' have dime a dozen guys on it. Not to mention CAR has been one of the strogest running teams long before Davidson got there. Their O was also potent long before he got there.
Masters said:
Are we talking about the same CAR that has a 1st round pick at LT and RT, along with a 2nd and 3rd at C and G?I'll give Davidson all the credit in the world for finally using DeAngelo after he was wasted for two years behind an aging Foster.
Masters before I voice my difference of opinion - I want to say I ENJOY reading anything you post. You need to post MORE because sometimes you DO change my stubborn football world is caving in tunnelvision. Some of my tones on this are NOT directed at you personally as much as the overall back to all we need is to fire 1 guy mentality that has us setting up the next Scapegoat if we continue to suck in the front office. WHO is going to be doing the hiring THIS time and knowing what the best 2 choices are in terms of HCing experience? Are we going to accept we didn't get our 1st our 2nd choice again the way we did with Palmer when we chased Palmer out of town assuming he was the ONLY problem? Not 1 person held Policy the LEAST bit accountable for the 5-27 start. And they NEVER held him acountable for bringing in the most HATED person in franchise history Butch Davis. Davis allegedly hired himself just like RAC just did right?
Just a couple points about Williams. Is he getting better or worse with experience? Our first round pick was Kam Wimbley. His best season was his rookie year but a look at his college career showed me 1 season of fulltime startage while Broadlike Bunkley our other rumored favorite in that draft had similar limitations. Don't they always say your better GMs draft kids with more upside? The guy in Carolina did a nice job with that. Meanwhile, the # of scoring weapons to choose between Steve Smith, Jon Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, Muhsin Muhamad really make Otah, Gross, Kalil and Wharton's efforts noticable. I see 4 oline guys they DRAFTED worth keeping while we've had 1 at the tough challenge of the 3rd overall pick. GREAT job Phil! We're on pace to have all 5 olinemen worth keeping from the draft for the year 2020. If Joe Thomas is the next Jackie Slater - we're all set! We're still overdependent on free agency because we've got more holes than a golf course.
One of the biggest reasons Williams wasn't AS effective before this year was he was playing through injuries which limited success and an ability to shift gears the way he does this year. I had him on my fantasy football roster so I remember all the times it said questionable and why it was. He's a pro so he sucked it up and played. That said, shall we see what he averaged per carry prior to this year? Here ya go - any complaints about 4.1 yards a carry as a rookie or 5 yards a carry as a soph?:
Season Team G Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD
2006 Carolina 13 121 501 38.5 4.1 1
2007 Carolina 16 144 717 44.8 5.0 4
2008 Carolina 14 224 1229 87.8 5.5 14
And another reason NOBODY looked good at RB in 2007 was Carolina went with their version of Ken Dorsey and I think they even called the 45 year old Testaverde off the coach. This had 11 defenders cramming the box to stop running game and hook zones while DEs had walkoff duty in the flats. Steve Smith fell off the earth not because he stunk but because they didn't have the arm to deem him inclusive.
Savage did indeed fire Davidson so I'm am rather amused how we continue to play leapfrog the GM in lieu of just blame your favorite scapegoat. In 2007, we gave Chud ALL the praise for innovative offense and scoring TDs. In 2008, it suddenly became our Head Coach called all the plays while Chud had nothing to do with it. Just a question? The guy Chud worked under in SD was OC Ken Cameron so did Cameron just get more intelligent when he lived in Baltimore and San Diego than he was when he lived in Miami? Things like WHO is playing QB, who is fetching passes, who is healthy at RB, and what draft picks up front are paving the way for success matter. Our offense wouldn't NEED handcuffing if we weren't throwing more INTs for TDs vrs Baltimore than TDs to teamates (ie; 2007). I don't see all these wonderful scoring weapons and ideal olinemen (aside from our left side) everyone else does. Harrison is currently working through an injury which was allegedly the concern about his durability to receive more reps. Therefore, it's not convenient to comsider that or the fact that Savage got Lerner to open his wallet to deem Jamal lewis 2008 workhorse. Winslow is just as worn and torn as Lewis folks so why play leafrog with the unicorn when we can just blame the next Head Coach? I'd LOVE to have the ability to archive what everyone thought of the BB/Parcells school of 3 yards and a cloud of dust when we had them here. We thought Keenan Mccardle's BIGGEST asset was his blocking so we used Stonehands Jackson to fetch passes instead. I seen it. People didn't think any more of Davidson than they did of Carthon. TRUST me - I read it over and over and over.
In conclusion, if you're not here to say that EVERY single problem with this team is 100% the Head Coach's fault - you're not gonna be popular. I DO agree RAC defintely needs to go; BUT have we hired the right coach YET? Why are we here again? I'm at least willing to admit Phil hasn't made us any LESS overdependent on free agency volume 5 offseasons into his plan that promised better drafting and more continuity. When a former employee is paid by the NFL channel to report on his opinion of the problems in Cleveland I find it interesting he says the biggest problem the entire time he was there was front offense chaos. Doesn't the fact that we even HAD Dilfer as our 1st plan with Charlie on deck somewhat confirm that? Others that departed for other franchises have said the same thing. Why was there already a problem with Savage and Collins? Let me guess, RAC was playing Conrad Dobler behind the scenes asking one did you here what Phil was saying about you? Had to be...
- Tom F. (I started to get the hint as we stayed stuck on pause with Northcutt and one seeing the need to secure Andra Davis' future with us as priorities. The biggest red flag was jamming your head coach with here's your guy Trent Dilfer with Charlie Frye on deck "go get em Tiger!" Not impressed yet! )
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Good post, Tom. Savage isn't off my radar, it's just that I do see RAC as the biggest problem this season. While he might a be a good COACH, he isn't a good HEAD COACH, and I think we all agree he is a poor gameday coach.
When the team is playing this badly, and guys ARE quitting, it's time to play the other guys, even if they are 'less talented' and 'don't practice well'. At this late stage (actually about 5 games ago), winning games doesn't matter. The goal is playoffs and super bowl. If you aren't in the mix, then it's time to address the attitude of the team for the sake of next season.
In some places, the players police themselves; CLE hasn't been one of them since reentering the league. It's up to the coach to do it, and to send a message to guys that don't perform.
Savage has too big a role, IMO, and it shows. I don't think his drafts have been all that great (I belive most of our starters wouldn't start for 1/2 of the teams in the league). The only problem is it is hard to say if the coaching is to blame. We've seen Wimbley regress after a great rookie season. The guys has the talent, it would appear, but I don't know if he is being taught well.
Depending on who ends up at HC, Savage will be under a microscope this year. If a guy like Marty or Cowher, or someone who is known to get the best out of his players and can really coach them comes in, we'll see if Phil is as good as he thinks he is.
Only thing that might skew the resuls are that we'll be facing what should be a weak schedule. How the team performs against BAL, PIT, and any other good teams will be of interest.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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