Losses Vs. Gains Comparison
-
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Skeptical2013 said:
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Well, they drafted a CB they needed: Leon McFadden
They drafted a FS they needed: Jamoris Slaughter
The brought in two FA DBs: Barnes and Owens
They got rid of guys we all thought were not doing a very good job: Sheldon Brown/ Usama Young.
They still have: Haden, Ward, Hagg, Skrine, T. Gipson, Wade, Prince Miller, Bademosi, Kent Richardson
They've got bodies.....some are pretty good, some are developing. I don't think they are as bad as you think, but no, they probably don't have a Pro Bowler at every position....or do they?
Haden is All Pro Caliber
Ward is Pro Bowl Caliber
Maybe McFadden is the find of the draft.
Maybe Jamoris Slaughter recovers and really develops.
Sorry Chicken Little, I don't thinkt he sky is falling on our defensive backfield....though maybe a little rain is falling.
And if our front 7 is as badass as we hope, that will make this backfield better.
-
This thread had a very, very simple premise: Take a look at the players a team has lost from its roster due to free agency.
Compare that to the players they picked up in free agency and the draft....and give it a grade.
I don't know how I could have dumbed it down any more for the likes of you.
It was never intended to be a comprehensive ranking or analysis of a team's entire roster.
By all means....if YOU have a premise that you want to explore....a method of evaluating teams that you want to delve into....go ahead....start your own thread. Nothing is stopping you from doing things the way you want to.
Don't like what I have to offer? Do something yourself.
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
-
I get that gipper. However when you issue the reasons for why you.act as if.those.guys.are all going to.be expected to.start, rather than the guys already.on the roster. The thread acts like it includes the entire team.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
All I did was compare what teams lost vs. what teams gained....and tried to determine if those moves constituted an upgrade or a downgrade.
I pointed out in many cases if a team had major losses.....like the Ravens losing their top 3 LBs....or major gains...like the Browns getting 3 decent LBs in lieu of 3 poor LBs...or the Bengals getting Tyler Eifert.
But in many other cases I pointed out very minor changes....like the Browns losing no one on the OL, but taking an OL in the 7th round.
The thread did what it did. Not sure why you are trying to pervert it or make it something it isn't. It is supposed to be a simple, fun exercise. You want to turn it into World War Z.
I don't enjoy the occasionally ridiculous banter for which I usually participate. I would much rather be civil and concede valid opinions when they are valid and not try and "haterade" them with the rivalry juices. When I read over this thread I took it one way. You were going through the losses and gains but then evaluating each loss and gain like those replacements whether via the draft or free agency were the immediate starters. Obviously we both know this isn't true. I also don't believe the Ravens or the Steelers are going to be hurting anywhere close to as much as you want them to be. The Ratbirds added Dumvervill and Arthur Brown. You won't get the kind of leadership out of Brown that you would Lewis or the immediate savvy BUT it's not like Lewis was in his prime when he retired. I expect Arthur Brown to be similarly productive when looking at how Lewis was playing when he retired. Who knows how he will be from that point on and then same can be said for the departure of James Harrison. I hated to see him go but I'm very confident in the ability of Worilds and the potential prowess of Jones. On paper the Steelers, REALLY, REALLY drafted well and each guy is of very high character something they've gambled with a bit as of late (Rainey, Ta'amu, Anthony Smith, Mike Wallace etc)
-
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Skeptical2013 said:
Gotta love all the Browns fans who are so happy about all the depth on the defensive line. But there is NO quality depth in the secondary!? Browns may have the worst secondary in all of pro football! It's like an army general telling us he had added 1,000 new battle tanks but did nothing to improve the air force, giving the enemy an almost free reign over the battlefield! Opposing QBs are going to have a field day against this weak secondary, almost totally neutralizing all those improvements on the DL!
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Because we overpaid for THE top FA linebacker and THE top DL in what was considered an offseason devoid of top talent.
We overpaid so much that we still have 30 million or so in cap space left. Now, just how, exactly does this hurt the Browns?
When an OLB who only has a handful of starts in his career and is considered the top talent available, is that really a good market?
Who really cares? The only thing that matters is if these guys come in and do a bang up job. Good, bad, or medium, the Browns got the best that was available. Would you have preferred they did nothing? If they did, you would complain about that, right? So, what I gather is: there is no winning with you. The Browns get the best rated FAs available, and you don't like it. I seem to recall that you hated when Heckert and Holmgren did very little in FA except get some B or C rated FAs.
To quote Prince: maybe you're just like my mother, you're never satisfied.
I will say that Desmond Bryant can be a great DL, but at the same time...we already had two good linemen and 5 backups.
And now we have outstanding depth there. I still don't see the downside that you are complaining about.
These BEST FA's went where the money is, plain and simple. Luckily for us, we have a monstrous amount of cap space to accommodate them.
Well....Bravissimo for the Browns. They had money and they spent it on the best. I mean, are you just arguing to argue? Or is something else going on? I mean, what? Have you got sand fleas biting your balls, or WTF?
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
What we did was get two guys that greatly enhanced the Browns talent at the positions they played. Maybe they are or maybe they are not Pro Bowlers.....they are a damn sight better than Kaluka Maiava and Chris Gocong.....and they were the top rated players at their position.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
Who was out there at CB or FS that was so great? A decrepit Ed Reed which the Browns wanted no part of because of his age. Maybe Dashon Goldon....who is a safety who may be a SS....and not better than Ward who we had. There weren't any "great CBs" available. Hell....the guy we cut loose, Sheldon Brown was considered to be one of the top CB FAs this year.
And, like I said, the Browns DID pick up two DBs....Owens and Barnes.
Bottom line: the Browns were going to get their DBs in the draft.
Perhaps a justified criticism would be to say they should have taken Millner. ( I thought they would). But I think they are satisfied with McFadden, even if you are not.
Perhaps a justified criticism is trading those two picks for picks next year.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I am a Browns fan, and maybe I do see orange and brown. But, if I see a basis for criticism, I am certainly going to make it. Have you not paid all these years? I spend half my time criticizing them for one reason or another.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your poor judgment in these matters.
I have my own damned opinions...and they are far sight more cogent than yours.
-
Zombo said:
Joe Haden is in the Top 5 at his position and T.J. Ward is Top 10. The other two spots will be open competition and actually the F.O. did exactly that ... brought in depth.
We added McFadden, Owens and Barnes at CB to compete with holdovers Skrine, Wade and Bademosi
We added Turnstall and Slaughter at S to compete with Gipson and Hagg
Let's say our top four corners end up being Haden, McFadden, Skrine and Owens. And at Safety we go with Ward, Gipson, Hagg and Bademosi (I like him as a safety, and he is a special teams bad ass).
How is that a worse secondary than Baltimore, who is in our division and competing for a Super Bowl?
You can't have an All-Pro at every position, that's why you have to find value in the draft and free agency and employ a good coaching staff with a good scheme ... that sure seems to me to be what they are trying to do.
Why all the bitching before we even play a game? Don't get it.
Zombo
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
Tj ward top 10? Haden is top 10 but not top 5, all of which is of course my opinion. I guess we will find out.
Name 5 CBs better than Haden. Name 10 SS better than Ward.
In the words of Mike Singletary: Can't do it.
-
See, sometimes you cannot get around with people that defy logic:
Browns go after and get perhaps the best DL and LB available in FA....and they are criticized for "overpaying".
They try for but don't get say Dashon Goldson and Brent Grimes....and they are criticized for not "overpaying". Maybe the teams that got them "overpaid" and that is why they went there.
The Browns were not going to go after older players, so the likes of Reed, Mikell, Jammer etc. were not in their radar.
Same with TE. While Kellen Davis was one of the higher rated TEs available, there were a few others....but most of them were older.
Like Ben Watson.
Did the Browns sign every high priced FA out there? No. They decided not to go drunken sailor on us. (no one....except perhaps Dan Snyder has ever felt that was the best way to build a winning team.)
Did they sign some of the best FAs at some positions? Yes, they did. And they did a lot more in FA than the prior regime did.
So, I guess you could chase your tail on this all day long. Paid too much here, didn't pay enough there.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!! (no, they weren't available in FA)
-
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
What we did was get two guys that greatly enhanced the Browns talent at the positions they played. Maybe they are or maybe they are not Pro Bowlers.....they are a damn sight better than Kaluka Maiava and Chris Gocong.....and they were the top rated players at their position.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
Who was out there at CB or FS that was so great? A decrepit Ed Reed which the Browns wanted no part of because of his age. Maybe Dashon Goldon....who is a safety who may be a SS....and not better than Ward who we had. There weren't any "great CBs" available. Hell....the guy we cut loose, Sheldon Brown was considered to be one of the top CB FAs this year.
And, like I said, the Browns DID pick up two DBs....Owens and Barnes.
Bottom line: the Browns were going to get their DBs in the draft.
Perhaps a justified criticism would be to say they should have taken Millner. ( I thought they would). But I think they are satisfied with McFadden, even if you are not.
Perhaps a justified criticism is trading those two picks for picks next year.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I am a Browns fan, and maybe I do see orange and brown. But, if I see a basis for criticism, I am certainly going to make it. Have you not paid all these years? I spend half my time criticizing them for one reason or another.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your poor judgment in these matters.
I have my own damned opinions...and they are far sight more cogent than yours.
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
What we did was get two guys that greatly enhanced the Browns talent at the positions they played. Maybe they are or maybe they are not Pro Bowlers.....they are a damn sight better than Kaluka Maiava and Chris Gocong.....and they were the top rated players at their position.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
Who was out there at CB or FS that was so great? A decrepit Ed Reed which the Browns wanted no part of because of his age. Maybe Dashon Goldon....who is a safety who may be a SS....and not better than Ward who we had. There weren't any "great CBs" available. Hell....the guy we cut loose, Sheldon Brown was considered to be one of the top CB FAs this year.
And, like I said, the Browns DID pick up two DBs....Owens and Barnes.
Bottom line: the Browns were going to get their DBs in the draft.
Perhaps a justified criticism would be to say they should have taken Millner. ( I thought they would). But I think they are satisfied with McFadden, even if you are not.
Perhaps a justified criticism is trading those two picks for picks next year.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I am a Browns fan, and maybe I do see orange and brown. But, if I see a basis for criticism, I am certainly going to make it. Have you not paid all these years? I spend half my time criticizing them for one reason or another.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your poor judgment in these matters.
I have my own damned opinions...and they are far sight more cogent than yours.
Brent Grimes and Nnamdi Asomugha both weren't resigned by their teams. Both are young and both have been Pro Bowlers within the last two seasons.
Sean Smith, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Derek Cox, Chris Houston and Keenan Lewis are all improvements over what we had and still currently do have. All would have sufficed as a #2 corner.
Dashon Goldson, Pat Chung, and William Moore are all prototypical safeties in Horton's defense. They are little guys who can hit and are all marked upgrades over Gipson and Hagg.
All went to different teams.
Your problem is that, just because you Google random trivia questions pertaining to football, you think you understand the game. Vagitron had it slightly right when he said you know nothing about football outside of the Browns. I take it one step further and say you know nothing about football outside of the pre-'96 Browns.
The game is more than "line up and hit someone". Scheming and personnel matchups matter, no matter what you may think.
But I'm supposed to rest easy knowing that our fate is in the hands of a linebacking corps that has essentially one proven NFL starter on it and our secondary has a third round CB from a basketball school and a FS with a recently torn Achilles.
There's a difference in saving cap room for future use and hesitating to pull the trigger. This offseason was set up perfectly for our needs, and we sit here again wondering what the fuck is going on in Berea.
Some people are happy just that we actually made moves this year. I'm not one of those people. Ill be happy when we start winning games and not damn well until.
Ah, but a mans reach should always exceed his grasp.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Name 5 CBs better than Haden. Name 10 SS better than Ward.
In the words of Mike Singletary: Can't do it.
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Name 5 CBs better than Haden. Name 10 SS better than Ward.
In the words of Mike Singletary: Can't do it.
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
lol...Charles Tillman...really?..Antoine Winfield?...two names that are a HUGE reach..Champ Bailey is WAY past his prime.....Richard Sherman?...never heard of him...Brandon Flowers?...asK Romeo why he doesnt have a job..Tim Jennings?..another HUGE reach....I'll give you PP and Revis but after that..YOUR REACHING!
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
The problem is you're making it sound like the Browns went out and nabbed two fantastic Pro Bowlers with proven experience when in reality they overpaid for a guy who is, at the very best at the moment, a situational player and followed that up by overpaying for a good DL when we already had two DL.
What we did was get two guys that greatly enhanced the Browns talent at the positions they played. Maybe they are or maybe they are not Pro Bowlers.....they are a damn sight better than Kaluka Maiava and Chris Gocong.....and they were the top rated players at their position.
Meanwhile, we have no second CB and no FS, in a year where there WERE proven Pro Bowler players at those positions, and we either :
A) didn't offer over market value to them like we did the other guys
Or
we did offer over market value and they still said noEither way, it proves the same point...Cleveland isn't a desirable destination. The only thing going for us is that we could offer more money.
Who was out there at CB or FS that was so great? A decrepit Ed Reed which the Browns wanted no part of because of his age. Maybe Dashon Goldon....who is a safety who may be a SS....and not better than Ward who we had. There weren't any "great CBs" available. Hell....the guy we cut loose, Sheldon Brown was considered to be one of the top CB FAs this year.
And, like I said, the Browns DID pick up two DBs....Owens and Barnes.
Bottom line: the Browns were going to get their DBs in the draft.
Perhaps a justified criticism would be to say they should have taken Millner. ( I thought they would). But I think they are satisfied with McFadden, even if you are not.
Perhaps a justified criticism is trading those two picks for picks next year.
I mean, at some point you have to stop acting like the sun shines out of this city's' asshole and be realistic. You see the world through orange tinted glasses and it gets to be embarrassing.
I am a Browns fan, and maybe I do see orange and brown. But, if I see a basis for criticism, I am certainly going to make it. Have you not paid all these years? I spend half my time criticizing them for one reason or another.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your poor judgment in these matters.
I have my own damned opinions...and they are far sight more cogent than yours.
Brent Grimes and Nnamdi Asomugha both weren't resigned by their teams. Both are young and both have been Pro Bowlers within the last two seasons.
Sean Smith, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Derek Cox, Chris Houston and Keenan Lewis are all improvements over what we had and still currently do have. All would have sufficed as a #2 corner.
Dashon Goldson, Pat Chung, and William Moore are all prototypical safeties in Horton's defense. They are little guys who can hit and are all marked upgrades over Gipson and Hagg.
All went to different teams.
Your problem is that, just because you Google random trivia questions pertaining to football, you think you understand the game. Vagitron had it slightly right when he said you know nothing about football outside of the Browns. I take it one step further and say you know nothing about football outside of the pre-'96 Browns.
The game is more than "line up and hit someone". Scheming and personnel matchups matter, no matter what you may think.
But I'm supposed to rest easy knowing that our fate is in the hands of a linebacking corps that has essentially one proven NFL starter on it and our secondary has a third round CB from a basketball school and a FS with a recently torn Achilles.
There's a difference in saving cap room for future use and hesitating to pull the trigger. This offseason was set up perfectly for our needs, and we sit here again wondering what the fuck is going on in Berea.
Some people are happy just that we actually made moves this year. I'm not one of those people. Ill be happy when we start winning games and not damn well until.
Ah, but a mans reach should always exceed his grasp.
Brent Grimes and Nnamdi Asomugha both weren't resigned by their teams. Both are young and both have been Pro Bowlers within the last two seasons.
Sean Smith, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Derek Cox, Chris Houston and Keenan Lewis are all improvements over what we had and still currently do have. All would have sufficed as a #2 corner.
Dashon Goldson, Pat Chung, and William Moore are all prototypical safeties in Horton's defense. They are little guys who can hit and are all marked upgrades over Gipson and Hagg.
All went to different teams.
Your problem is that, just because you Google random trivia questions pertaining to football, you think you understand the game. Vagitron had it slightly right when he said you know nothing about football outside of the Browns. I take it one step further and say you know nothing about football outside of the pre-'96 Browns.
The game is more than "line up and hit someone". Scheming and personnel matchups matter, no matter what you may think.
But I'm supposed to rest easy knowing that our fate is in the hands of a linebacking corps that has essentially one proven NFL starter on it and our secondary has a third round CB from a basketball school and a FS with a recently torn Achilles.
There's a difference in saving cap room for future use and hesitating to pull the trigger. This offseason was set up perfectly for our needs, and we sit here again wondering what the fuck is going on in Berea.
Some people are happy just that we actually made moves this year. I'm not one of those people. Ill be happy when we start winning games and not damn well until.
Ah, but a mans reach should always exceed his grasp.
You are completely full of fucking bullshit. You are grasping at every name that is out there that YOU can Google....and saying that this guy or that guy is better.
You have no more capability of analyzing the strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities of these players than I do.
Most of the name YOU Googled are rated worse than Sheldon Brown.....who we know sucked.
So, basically, you are clamoring for the Browns to obtain players that sucked worse than the guys we let go.
You think just because you are capable of criticism that that makes you an expert on talent evaluation.
What fucking arrogance.
Tim Couch Pulls Out knows more than Lombardi, Banner, and the Coaches and Assistant of the Cleveland Browns.
You played football. Big fucking deal. Now you are what? Selling beer to the hillbillies of backwater South Carolina.
Jesus, you are such an expert....why has no team grabbed you up to run their scouting department.
FYI, maybe the Browns player personell DID NOT view Chung and Moore as upgrades over Hagg and Gipson.
Maybe they think Hagg and Gipson have far more upside than the guys you think they should have taken.
You have no credibility when judging talent, any more than I do.
And maybe the Browns were outbid by other teams. There are 32 of them. They have money to spend too.
This is probably the case with Grimes. The Browns may not have batted a thousand on every one they wanted.
Like I said....yours is just one opinion....no more valid than anyone else on this board.
And since the Cleveland Browns front office hasn't called you to ask you to consult with them.....I will take their judgment over yours.
-
Name 5 CBs better than Haden. Name 10 SS better than Ward.
In the words of Mike Singletary: Can't do it.
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
Now, you are just naming names to name names. I will give you maybe 3 of those: Revis, Sherman, and Peterson....and I am not sure about Sherman.....and for all we know Revis may be a shell of his former self after ACL....remains to be seen.
Winfield and Bailey at one time...in their prime perhaps. But certainly not now. Hell, why don't you name Darrell Green and Deion Sanders?
And Jennings and Flowers and Tillman? Hell no. At best someone can say that they might come close to Haden...but no way better.
-
Everybody has an opinion. Here is just one...by a source more credible than The Vag or TCPO:
-
And here is this: Guess who is #1:
-
Brent Grimes and Nnamdi Asomugha both weren't resigned by their teams. Both are young and both have been Pro Bowlers within the last two seasons.
Sean Smith, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Derek Cox, Chris Houston and Keenan Lewis are all improvements over what we had and still currently do have. All would have sufficed as a #2 corner.
Dashon Goldson, Pat Chung, and William Moore are all prototypical safeties in Horton's defense. They are little guys who can hit and are all marked upgrades over Gipson and Hagg.
All went to different teams.
Your problem is that, just because you Google random trivia questions pertaining to football, you think you understand the game. Vagitron had it slightly right when he said you know nothing about football outside of the Browns. I take it one step further and say you know nothing about football outside of the pre-'96 Browns.
The game is more than "line up and hit someone". Scheming and personnel matchups matter, no matter what you may think.
But I'm supposed to rest easy knowing that our fate is in the hands of a linebacking corps that has essentially one proven NFL starter on it and our secondary has a third round CB from a basketball school and a FS with a recently torn Achilles.
There's a difference in saving cap room for future use and hesitating to pull the trigger. This offseason was set up perfectly for our needs, and we sit here again wondering what the fuck is going on in Berea.
Some people are happy just that we actually made moves this year. I'm not one of those people. Ill be happy when we start winning games and not damn well until.
Ah, but a mans reach should always exceed his grasp.
You are completely full of fucking bullshit. You are grasping at every name that is out there that YOU can Google....and saying that this guy or that guy is better.
You have no more capability of analyzing the strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities of these players than I do.
Most of the name YOU Googled are rated worse than Sheldon Brown.....who we know sucked.
So, basically, you are clamoring for the Browns to obtain players that sucked worse than the guys we let go.
You think just because you are capable of criticism that that makes you an expert on talent evaluation.
What fucking arrogance.
Tim Couch Pulls Out knows more than Lombardi, Banner, and the Coaches and Assistant of the Cleveland Browns.
You played football. Big fucking deal. Now you are what? Selling beer to the hillbillies of backwater South Carolina.
Jesus, you are such an expert....why has no team grabbed you up to run their scouting department.
FYI, maybe the Browns player personell DID NOT view Chung and Moore as upgrades over Hagg and Gipson.
Maybe they think Hagg and Gipson have far more upside than the guys you think they should have taken.
You have no credibility when judging talent, any more than I do.
And maybe the Browns were outbid by other teams. There are 32 of them. They have money to spend too.
This is probably the case with Grimes. The Browns may not have batted a thousand on every one they wanted.
Like I said....yours is just one opinion....no more valid than anyone else on this board.
And since the Cleveland Browns front office hasn't called you to ask you to consult with them.....I will take their judgment over yours.
You are completely full of fucking bullshit. You are grasping at every name that is out there that YOU can Google....and saying that this guy or that guy is better.
You have no more capability of analyzing the strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities of these players than I do.
Most of the name YOU Googled are rated worse than Sheldon Brown.....who we know sucked.
So, basically, you are clamoring for the Browns to obtain players that sucked worse than the guys we let go.
You think just because you are capable of criticism that that makes you an expert on talent evaluation.
What fucking arrogance.
Tim Couch Pulls Out knows more than Lombardi, Banner, and the Coaches and Assistant of the Cleveland Browns.
You played football. Big fucking deal. Now you are what? Selling beer to the hillbillies of backwater South Carolina.
Jesus, you are such an expert....why has no team grabbed you up to run their scouting department.
FYI, maybe the Browns player personell DID NOT view Chung and Moore as upgrades over Hagg and Gipson.
Maybe they think Hagg and Gipson have far more upside than the guys you think they should have taken.
You have no credibility when judging talent, any more than I do.
And maybe the Browns were outbid by other teams. There are 32 of them. They have money to spend too.
This is probably the case with Grimes. The Browns may not have batted a thousand on every one they wanted.
Like I said....yours is just one opinion....no more valid than anyone else on this board.
And since the Cleveland Browns front office hasn't called you to ask you to consult with them.....I will take their judgment over yours.
I'd love to know what rating system you are using, because CBS Sports and Walter Football both have every single player I mentioned rated higher than your beloved Sheldon Brown.
Once again, you prove you know absolutely fucking nothing about but you spout off bullshit like its fact.
Why don't you just go ahead and turn this thread into another useless bullshit one about the places you've been or old TV shows you watched or how your son is some whatever expert...because you sure as shit don't know what you're talking about here.
Analyzing a player is more than just asking "is this guy from the Cleveland area? Does he have a last name similar to mine? Does his aunt shop at the store where I bought my first hat? If so, then yes he's awesome and you're stupid for not seeing it"
Quit trying to apologize for the staff's fuck ups. They passed on FA to address it in the draft, and when the draft rolled around they missed the boat again. That's all there is to it.
You're right, the Cleveland Browns haven't called me. But the Atlanta Falcons and the Baltimore Ravens did.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I don't think I was being unreasonable ranking Haden top five and Ward top ten at their respective positions.
I'd love to hear the names of ten strong safeties that he would rank better than Ward, I wonder if they are as old as the corners he is naming.
I think he's just bitter because Ryan Clark and Troy Polymumu are collecting AARP and our two studs are 24 and 26 and headed into their prime.
Honestly, it must suck to be a Steeler fan right now.
Zombo
-
You are completely full of fucking bullshit. You are grasping at every name that is out there that YOU can Google....and saying that this guy or that guy is better.
You have no more capability of analyzing the strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities of these players than I do.
Most of the name YOU Googled are rated worse than Sheldon Brown.....who we know sucked.
So, basically, you are clamoring for the Browns to obtain players that sucked worse than the guys we let go.
You think just because you are capable of criticism that that makes you an expert on talent evaluation.
What fucking arrogance.
Tim Couch Pulls Out knows more than Lombardi, Banner, and the Coaches and Assistant of the Cleveland Browns.
You played football. Big fucking deal. Now you are what? Selling beer to the hillbillies of backwater South Carolina.
Jesus, you are such an expert....why has no team grabbed you up to run their scouting department.
FYI, maybe the Browns player personell DID NOT view Chung and Moore as upgrades over Hagg and Gipson.
Maybe they think Hagg and Gipson have far more upside than the guys you think they should have taken.
You have no credibility when judging talent, any more than I do.
And maybe the Browns were outbid by other teams. There are 32 of them. They have money to spend too.
This is probably the case with Grimes. The Browns may not have batted a thousand on every one they wanted.
Like I said....yours is just one opinion....no more valid than anyone else on this board.
And since the Cleveland Browns front office hasn't called you to ask you to consult with them.....I will take their judgment over yours.
I'd love to know what rating system you are using, because CBS Sports and Walter Football both have every single player I mentioned rated higher than your beloved Sheldon Brown.
Once again, you prove you know absolutely fucking nothing about but you spout off bullshit like its fact.
Why don't you just go ahead and turn this thread into another useless bullshit one about the places you've been or old TV shows you watched or how your son is some whatever expert...because you sure as shit don't know what you're talking about here.
Analyzing a player is more than just asking "is this guy from the Cleveland area? Does he have a last name similar to mine? Does his aunt shop at the store where I bought my first hat? If so, then yes he's awesome and you're stupid for not seeing it"
Quit trying to apologize for the staff's fuck ups. They passed on FA to address it in the draft, and when the draft rolled around they missed the boat again. That's all there is to it.
You're right, the Cleveland Browns haven't called me. But the Atlanta Falcons and the Baltimore Ravens did.
I'd love to know what rating system you are using, because CBS Sports and Walter Football both have every single player I mentioned rated higher than your beloved Sheldon Brown.
ESPN/FOX/NFL.com
Once again, you prove you know absolutely fucking nothing about but you spout off bullshit like its fact.
In that regard then, I simply am mimicking you, obviously
Why don't you just go ahead and turn this thread into another useless bullshit one about the places you've been or old TV shows you watched or how your son is some whatever expert...because you sure as shit don't know what you're talking about here.
What? Can't stand that I enjoy a well rounded existance? You are stuck in hillbilly heaven and never go anywhere, your sum total of TV experience is Duck Dynasty, and your kid is in prison.
I know just as much about what goes on in football as you do.....which is to say, not much
Analyzing a player is more than just asking "is this guy from the Cleveland area? Does he have a last name similar to mine? Does his aunt shop at the store where I bought my first hat? If so, then yes he's awesome and you're stupid for not seeing it"
NSS? What do you want? 40 times? Height/weight. I guess you want to bore people to death with that sort of thing, is that it? You have no more information about these players than I do, no more basis upon which to analyze them than anyone else.
Quit trying to apologize for the staff's fuck ups. They passed on FA to address it in the draft, and when the draft rolled around they missed the boat again. That's all there is to it.
I am not apologizing for them....in many respects I agree somewhat with what you say. Its just that your "I fucking know better than they do" attitude comes off as completely Retarded. You have no clue as to how well the players they obtained, like McFadden/Owen/Barnes/Slaughter are going to
vis a vis the guys you think they should have taken.
And your credibility further wanes by the notion that you think San Diego St. is a basketball school. Can you name one basketball player that came from SDSU? I don't think I can.
But, I can tell you that SDSU has been pretty damn good to the Cleveland Browns in the past: Brian Sipe, Webster Slaughter.
And don't forget HOFer Marshall Faulk.
Oh, and the fact that both Sid Gillman/Don Coryell, and John Madden used to coach there gives that school some pretty solid football credentials.
In essence, the Air Coryell version of the West Coast Offense was basically started there.
So, I expect Leon McFadden to follow in the Sipe/Slaughter footsteps and be damned fine player for the Cleveland Browns.
You're right, the Cleveland Browns haven't called me. But the Atlanta Falcons and the Baltimore Ravens did.
Did they need a beer vendor?
-
Everybody has an opinion. Here is just one...by a source more credible than The Vag or TCPO:
Everybody has an opinion. Here is just one...by a source more credible than The Vag or TCPO:
Thanks for posting this and interesting that Haden was named the 7th best CB in the league based on the statistics he used to develop his opinions.
-
Corners I can do off the top of my head. I'd have to look at a few things to post the safeties.
Revis (although he wasn't healthy)
Tim Jennings (Bears)
Richard Sherman (Seahawks)
Antonine Winfield (Vikings)
Champ Bailey (Broncos)
Charles Tillman (Bears)
PP7 (Cards)
Brandon Flowers (Chiefs)
Hell possibly even Kareem Jackson who really turned it on last season and has great size. Joe Haden is good but he's not a top 5 corner. He may be eventually but he's not right now.
lol...Charles Tillman...really?..Antoine Winfield?...two names that are a HUGE reach..Champ Bailey is WAY past his prime.....Richard Sherman?...never heard of him...Brandon Flowers?...asK Romeo why he doesnt have a job..Tim Jennings?..another HUGE reach....I'll give you PP and Revis but after that..YOUR REACHING!
lol...Charles Tillman...really?..Antoine Winfield?...two names that are a HUGE reach..Champ Bailey is WAY past his prime.....Richard Sherman?...never heard of him...Brandon Flowers?...asK Romeo why he doesnt have a job..Tim Jennings?..another HUGE reach....I'll give you PP and Revis but after that..YOUR REACHING!
Check the stats. Tillman and Winfield both had fantastic years. Bailey is still playing at a very high level and Sherman is the beast corner in Seattle and yes Brandon Flowers. You're an idiot if you think Romeo lost his job for drafting him. Hell you probably don't know 3/4th's of the corners on that list.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month)
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login