Minicamp Reports, 5-23
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
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Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Based on what I read, Barnidge played much of the 2012 season but toward the end of the season only was in for about 12-14 snaps a game. He did miss the entire 2011 season.
But that raises the question: Why did we bother to sign a guy who not only is non-productive as a receiver, but has a history of injuries? Seems to me this is a throw away signing. Focus instead, this off season, should have been on signing a TE with some producivity, like Oakland's TE last season.
Didn't they sign like 3 TEs? You have Kellen Davis, Barnidge, Gronkowski, Tannahill, and Jordan. So, the answer to your question is: why not? They can have a half dozen TEs on the roster and see what they can do.
Also,note: Turner is somewhat of a TE guru.....so maybe he thinks more highly of this group than you do. I will trust his judgment more than a guy that does, what did someone call you....just a Madden junkie and fantasy league noob.
Didn't they sign like 3 TEs? You have Kellen Davis, Barnidge, Gronkowski, Tannahill, and Jordan. So, the answer to your question is: why not? They can have a half dozen TEs on the roster and see what they can do.
Also,note: Turner is somewhat of a TE guru.....so maybe he thinks more highly of this group than you do. I will trust his judgment more than a guy that does, what did someone call you....just a Madden junkie and fantasy league noob.
You've said this about every member of our FO and coaching staff.
Do you have any thoughts of your own? Or do you just blindly trust in whatever a person in power does?
You are probably the most vanilla person I've had the pleasure in never meeting.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
Alshon Jeffrey was rated "Most likely to be a bust" when he was drafted. So far, nothing has changed that evaluation.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
But this question involves an entire WR corps, not just one guy
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
....or so little. Like I said about the Baltimore WR before: they lost their glue with Boldin gone. It is totally speculative if they will much good without him.
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013...either because he will be good, or because he will suck swamp water. Who knows?
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
Alshon Jeffrey was rated "Most likely to be a bust" when he was drafted. So far, nothing has changed that evaluation.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
But this question involves an entire WR corps, not just one guy
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
....or so little. Like I said about the Baltimore WR before: they lost their glue with Boldin gone. It is totally speculative if they will much good without him.
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013...either because he will be good, or because he will suck swamp water. Who knows?
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Just like you overrate the Browns secondary, you underrate Jeffrey. Jeffrey is a real talent, a former all SEC player, who had some fine moments for the Bears last year and he's also on the "players who will break out in 2013" fantasty football list I cited the other day. It'll be interesting to see if he can stay with Gordon this season in the statistical categories.
Ravens receivers wil lbe fine.
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Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
I don't think Gordon will reach 80 catches. That's way too optimistic.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
uh, no. bowe sucks. he's just a beneficiary of being the only target on that team. on any other team he'd be the #3.
i'd take gordon or little any day over him.
That's interesting because Bowe was named the 65th best player in the NFL for 2013 by the players themselves in the in-depth NFL Network listing being featured heavily on NFL Network right now. They've identified players 41-100 on the list so far and I haven't heard Josh Gordon's name called, Clearly the players have a mich higher opinoin of Bowe than you do!
The only Browns player onthe list so far is Trent Richardson, at #71. I suspect Joe Thomas will make the list and maybe Joe Haden.
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Measuring wide receiver talent strictly by stats is like saying Joe Horn sucked before he left KC for a near HOF career in New Orleans, right? Or that Larry Fitzgerald really peaked a few years ago. They're just SO dependent on QB play and ours wasn't terribly good last year.
But 806 yards at a 16 clip is an excellent rookie year, especially given that his QB had a 72.0 passer rating and ranked 22nd out of 23 in passes over 20 yards. Gordon has only scratched the surface. If anybody looks at that guy on tape, you see a potential superstar. Greg Little lacks only the long speed but he's still a physical freak (27 reps, 41" vert, runs like a back).
You have to watch the players play at that position. And those are two guys without physical limitations. Rare size as a duo. And after reading that Weeden's looking really good and really comfortable, I'm getting excited for the most explosive offense we've seen since 2007.
Measuring wide receiver talent strictly by stats is like saying Joe Horn sucked before he left KC for a near HOF career in New Orleans, right? Or that Larry Fitzgerald really peaked a few years ago. They're just SO dependent on QB play and ours wasn't terribly good last year.
But 806 yards at a 16 clip is an excellent rookie year, especially given that his QB had a 72.0 passer rating and ranked 22nd out of 23 in passes over 20 yards. Gordon has only scratched the surface. If anybody looks at that guy on tape, you see a potential superstar. Greg Little lacks only the long speed but he's still a physical freak (27 reps, 41" vert, runs like a back).
You have to watch the players play at that position. And those are two guys without physical limitations. Rare size as a duo. And after reading that Weeden's looking really good and really comfortable, I'm getting excited for the most explosive offense we've seen since 2007.
I agree with you and Josh Gordon is a fine young talent who will get only better as he gains experience. It'll be fascinating to watch who will end their careers as the better player: Josh Gordon or Torey Smith.
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Another upside is we don't have to complain about the quality of our bookend tackles anymore. YAY !
Another upside is we don't have to complain about the quality of our bookend tackles anymore. YAY !
Man, isn't that the truth . Thank you Tom Heckert! And the Browns also have excellent depth now on the OL. As I have mentioned, keep your eyes on Chris Faulk once he regains his health because this kid would have been a first round draft pick if he hadn't been hurt early last season at LSU. I also think Gilkey has a chance to be a good player. Everyone is breathing down the neck of Shawn Lauvao.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Skeptical2013 said:
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
Damn I actually agree with most of your post, except the Jeferey bit. The talents there, still ALOT to prove. Better than Gordon or Little? NO.
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Yeah, Jeremiah just listed T.Y. Hilton and Gordon has "buys" in fantasy. Expects Gordon to have 80+ catches, Hilton 70+. If Gordon has 80 catches at 15, that's 1,200 yards... and that draws coverage which opens up others like Little, Bess, Cameron, et al. It's the first domino to fall, something we haven't had in quite some time.
I don't think Gordon will reach 80 catches. That's way too optimistic.
Skeptical2013 said:
I don't think Gordon will reach 80 catches. That's way too optimistic.
He may not, but IMO the biggest reason is we may have 4 players with over 50 catces each. Little, Bess, and Cameron are going to be factors.
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Skeptical2013 said:
I don't think Gordon will reach 80 catches. That's way too optimistic.
He may not, but IMO the biggest reason is we may have 4 players with over 50 catces each. Little, Bess, and Cameron are going to be factors.
He may not, but IMO the biggest reason is we may have 4 players with over 50 catces each. Little, Bess, and Cameron are going to be factors.
That's possible. But don't you worry about the fragile Cameron staying healthy?
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Skeptical2013 said:
That's possible. But don't you worry about the fragile Cameron staying healthy?
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
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Curious about Barnidge. He's an under the radar pickup but Chud told people all he needs is looks and experience because, like Cameron, he's an athletic guy who can catch. Makes me think of Jacob Tamme. Sometimes guys are as good as you let them be. A lot of media guys tweeted Thursday that Barnidge indeed looks fluid and athletic and catches everything.
We'll see. We have a lot of guys who can make plays in the passing game, especially assuming David Nelson gets right by camp.
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Skeptical2013 said:
That's possible. But don't you worry about the fragile Cameron staying healthy?
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
If you did your homework you'd learn that Kellen Davis was practically run out of town in Chicago, he was so bad. The fans called him "Stone Hands." Maybe he can block, but the guy can't catch very well, maybe one of the worst pass catching TE's in the league. Browns need blcoking TEs but they also need TEs who can catch the damn ball! Davis is not one of them.
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Curious about Barnidge. He's an under the radar pickup but Chud told people all he needs is looks and experience because, like Cameron, he's an athletic guy who can catch. Makes me think of Jacob Tamme. Sometimes guys are as good as you let them be. A lot of media guys tweeted Thursday that Barnidge indeed looks fluid and athletic and catches everything.
We'll see. We have a lot of guys who can make plays in the passing game, especially assuming David Nelson gets right by camp.
Curious about Barnidge. He's an under the radar pickup but Chud told people all he needs is looks and experience because, like Cameron, he's an athletic guy who can catch. Makes me think of Jacob Tamme. Sometimes guys are as good as you let them be. A lot of media guys tweeted Thursday that Barnidge indeed looks fluid and athletic and catches everything.
We'll see. We have a lot of guys who can make plays in the passing game, especially assuming David Nelson gets right by camp.
Barnidge played for Chud in Carolina and accomplished nothing in the receiving game for a team that had Cam Newton as QB and an explosive offense. He may be able to block, but don't expect much in the receiving game from him.
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Zombo said:
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
If you did your homework you'd learn that Kellen Davis was practically run out of town in Chicago, he was so bad. The fans called him "Stone Hands." Maybe he can block, but the guy can't catch very well, maybe one of the worst pass catching TE's in the league. Browns need blcoking TEs but they also need TEs who can catch the damn ball! Davis is not one of them.
Skeptical2013 said:
If you did your homework you'd learn that Kellen Davis was practically run out of town in Chicago, he was so bad. The fans called him "Stone Hands." Maybe he can block, but the guy can't catch very well, maybe one of the worst pass catching TE's in the league. Browns need blcoking TEs but they also need TEs who can catch the damn ball! Davis is not one of them.
I did my homework, assfuck, read it again. I talked about the failures, the drops and getting run out of town.
As a Browns fan, I am hoping he can get it together in Cleveland.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
I'm not sure what is other than extreme backup free safety scouting.
Zombo
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Skeptical2013 said:
If you did your homework you'd learn that Kellen Davis was practically run out of town in Chicago, he was so bad. The fans called him "Stone Hands." Maybe he can block, but the guy can't catch very well, maybe one of the worst pass catching TE's in the league. Browns need blcoking TEs but they also need TEs who can catch the damn ball! Davis is not one of them.
I did my homework, assfuck, read it again. I talked about the failures, the drops and getting run out of town.
As a Browns fan, I am hoping he can get it together in Cleveland.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
I'm not sure what is other than extreme backup free safety scouting.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I did my homework, assfuck, read it again. I talked about the failures, the drops and getting run out of town.
As a Browns fan, I am hoping he can get it together in Cleveland.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
I'm not sure what is other than extreme backup free safety scouting.
Zombo
Davis flat out stinks. That is why no one wanted him but the Browns. Browns fans have been hoping that stiffs produce for 14 years now and it hasn't happened. Your hoping that a guy who was the laughing stock of Chicago Bears football and run out of town will produce in Cleveland is a joke in itself!
No pressure on Davis? Thee will be big time pressure on Davis because Cameron, the starting TE who has proven nothing in two years with the Browns, gets hurt all the time, even though he hardly plays. Say "boo" and Cameron is hurt. So "Stone Hands" Davis will play a lot, drop a lot of passes, and take Little's place as the Browns' Mr. Dropsy and drive killer.
Browns need some playmakers at TE. They were available in free agency and the draft, and Lombardi decided to go with Mr. always hurt proven nothing as his starter, add a FA called "stone hands," and another TE who has only caught 18 passes in 5 years of professional football. It's a pathetic display of inept management.
Meanwhile, good reports coming in about safeties Philip Thomas and Bacari Rambo in Washington, both of whom were available for the Browns to draft in later rounds. Thomas and Rambo are intercepting passes, recovering fumbles, all over the field. Meanwhile, the Browns' safety selection, the aptly named Slaughter, contrinues to sit on the sidelines nursing his injury. Nice job Lombardi and Zombo!
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Wow, this is such a strange dynamic. Skeptical posts that anybody the Browns take/sign is doomed to suckage and anybody they don't take/sign is destined for imminent greatness. He's also the most prolific poster so the overall thesis here is that the Browns suck and following them is going to be a horrible experience forever and ever.
Again, tough to understand how that's fun.
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Skeptical2013 said:
That's possible. But don't you worry about the fragile Cameron staying healthy?
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, yes ... but let's put on the rose-colored glasses for a moment.
Kellen Davis is a massive target and, by all reports, a good athlete.
The knock on him was his work ethic.
In 2011, he was a victim of a Mike Martz offense that forgot they had a tight end.
In 2012, he had a bad case of the dropsies, which secured his ticket out of town.
But maybe, just maybe, in Chud's tight-end friendly system, with no pressure coming in as the projected backup, this kid will pull his head out of his ass and salvage his NFL career.
I mean ... Norv Turner and a 6'7 athletic tight end ... it can happen, right?
Nevermind ... carry on with the skeptical stuff.
Zombo
Gotta love Zombo's optimism about Kellen Davis. He thinks that Chud is going to wave his magic wand and Davis, a total failure in Chicago, will suddenly transform (we've heard that Gary Barnidge, a zero in 5 years in Carolina, is going to suddenly blossom into a great TE receiver, too!).
Below are two stories about Davis among dozens of negative articles about him.
While Zombo tells us Davis is a great blocker, as noted in the article, Davis was heavily critizied by Chicago fans for his poor blocking and falling down. Some of the Bears fans comments in this first article about Davis's terrible receiving and poor blocking are priceless! They are so happy to see him out!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000150316/article/kellen-davis-released-by-chicago-bears
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Wow, this is such a strange dynamic. Skeptical posts that anybody the Browns take/sign is doomed to suckage and anybody they don't take/sign is destined for imminent greatness. He's also the most prolific poster so the overall thesis here is that the Browns suck and following them is going to be a horrible experience forever and ever.
Again, tough to understand how that's fun.
Wow, this is such a strange dynamic. Skeptical posts that anybody the Browns take/sign is doomed to suckage and anybody they don't take/sign is destined for imminent greatness. He's also the most prolific poster so the overall thesis here is that the Browns suck and following them is going to be a horrible experience forever and ever.
Again, tough to understand how that's fun.
Some of the quality signings by the Browns this off season:
Dion Lewis -- really excited about having him on the roster, a dynamic player.
Desmond Bryant -- he'll be a real force up front if he can stay off the police blotter
Bess and Nelson -- Quality receivers will add important depth to the receiving corps with ability to make plays in the clutch
Draft and UDFA -- OG Gilkey a real value in round 7 and UDFA Chris Faulk from LSU is a potential NFL star
LB Groves -- Adds quality depth at OLB
Meanwhile, players like Kruger, Davis and Owens among those rated very low in ESPN's comprehensive ratings of all the free agents. In fact, players the Browns let go, like MoMass and Cribbs, are rated almost as high as Kruger.
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