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Laurinatis, Curry not participating in Senior Bowl

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  • Completely disagree, 'peen.

    I don't see how....but that's cool. That is what message boards are about.

    Like I said earlier.....guys can move up, and for some of them, they need to play. For some, they really can only move down.

    On that subject, i have never really agreed with guys shooting up boards.

    What can be learned in watching guys in shorts that couldn't be learned watching them during the season??

    This is where I think scouts screw things up and talk themselves out of things or in to things that aren't there....using the cookie cutter...well...he runs 1/10th slower than we thought....or more on point, he runs 1/10th faster.....so what???

    If they didn't impress you enough 4-5 weeks ago, why in the hell should they be all that impressive now......unless your scouting has been somewhat suspect all along??

    I can understand guys moving a few slots one way or the other, but unless something really bad comes out, I don't understand big drops, and I don't understand big gains even more.

    JMO

    If it isn't in the film, some practice or 40 time isn't going to change my mind much.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • Y YtownBrownsBacker

    Think about it. What does a high first round draft pick have to gain? Isn't there a bigger chance he could slide then move up. Jenkins and Curry have nothing else to prove. What they need more is to get in the weight room and work with a personal trainer and also work on some speed and agility drills for the combine and their pro days.

    Guys looking to move from the second round to the first or the second day to the first are guys that will benefit from bowl games not guys that will already be top 20 picks. Their grades will go up based on the combine and their pro days.

    Top first rounders would be fools to play in a all star game. their are too many downsides to it. Injury and also maybe being outplayed by some nobody.

    @ytownbrownsbacker said:

    Think about it. What does a high first round draft pick have to gain? Isn't there a bigger chance he could slide then move up. Jenkins and Curry have nothing else to prove. What they need more is to get in the weight room and work with a personal trainer and also work on some speed and agility drills for the combine and their pro days.

    Guys looking to move from the second round to the first or the second day to the first are guys that will benefit from bowl games not guys that will already be top 20 picks. Their grades will go up based on the combine and their pro days.

    Top first rounders would be fools to play in a all star game. their are too many downsides to it. Injury and also maybe being outplayed by some nobody.

    I agree with you about Jenkins & Curry - they're pretty much consensus top 10 picks.

    But look at a guy like Maualuga. Mocks now have him being taken at 12, but the Senior Bowl gives him a chance to convince the Jags to take him, who pick at 8. Last year, the 8th pick (Derrick Harvey) signed a 5 year, $23.8M deal. The 12th pick (Ryan Clady) signed a 6 year, $14.75M contract. So moving up those four spots could almost double the value of Rey's rookie deal.

    That's why it makes sense for Rey to participate. And that's why a guy like Laurinaitis is making a big mistake in not showing up.

  • Wow, what a dud of a game. (East vs West)

    I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

    Box Score

    Go Browns! Go Rams! - http://tksc.forumcircle.com/portal.php
    D Oldcrow1945O 2 Replies
  • T TK39

    Wow, what a dud of a game. (East vs West)

    I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

    Box Score

    @tk39 said:

    Wow, what a dud of a game.

    I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

    Box Score

    The game hasn't been played yet. The link won't appear for me ut I'm guessing thats the Shrine Game.

  • T Timugen

    Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

    I just pray to God that it isn't us.

    @timugen said:

    Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

    I just pray to God that it isn't us.

    Coaches from other teams usually know their business and are not in the business of "Hyping" players. Two years in a row 11 coaches in the Big Ten voted this guy as the Big Ten's best defensive player. That alone says so much. The people who's job it is to teach football has said two years in a row that this guy is the best at that trade.

    Saying what his future will be is anyone's guess and can be dabated until he goes out proves someone right or wrong.

    But to say that it just hype that has got him all these awards and generally known as one of the top, if not the top MLB in the game is ridiculous.

    I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

    I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

    I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"
    ? Riffer XR 2 Replies

  • If people have illussions of Lauranitis being Ray Lewis, then he'll be flop. If the expectaion is of him to be a solid starting LB for 10-12, he's probably gonna live up to that.

    Oldcrow1945O 1 Reply
  • T TK39

    Wow, what a dud of a game. (East vs West)

    I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

    Box Score

    @tk39 said:

    Wow, what a dud of a game.

    I just looked at the box score and I'm not even sure the East team showed up to play.

    Box Score

    I know he has the game wrong. He's refering to the East-West Shrine game. But as far as that all star game, I thought it was one of the best East-West Shrine games I've seen.

    Plus, if you watch one of these games for pure entertainment purposes you are going to be very disappointed. These games are interesting only if you want to watch certain prospects. For that reason I loved that game yesterday.

    For me the fun part is to use the DVR and watch plays in slow mo while isolating on various players.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"
  • Oldcrow1945O Oldcrow1945

    @timugen said:

    Laryngitis has nothing to worry about. Some poorly-managed team will buy into the hype and over-reach for him by a friggin' mile, just to see him become a serviceable (at best) LB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (copyright Ron Jaworski.)

    I just pray to God that it isn't us.

    Coaches from other teams usually know their business and are not in the business of "Hyping" players. Two years in a row 11 coaches in the Big Ten voted this guy as the Big Ten's best defensive player. That alone says so much. The people who's job it is to teach football has said two years in a row that this guy is the best at that trade.

    Saying what his future will be is anyone's guess and can be dabated until he goes out proves someone right or wrong.

    But to say that it just hype that has got him all these awards and generally known as one of the top, if not the top MLB in the game is ridiculous.

    I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

    I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

    I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

    oldcow1945 said:

    I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

    I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

    I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

    I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

    And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

    Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

    Oldcrow1945O 1 Reply
  • ? Guest

    If people have illussions of Lauranitis being Ray Lewis, then he'll be flop. If the expectaion is of him to be a solid starting LB for 10-12, he's probably gonna live up to that.

    Masters said:

    If people have illussions of Lauranitis being Ray Lewis, then he'll be flop. If the expectaion is of him to be a solid starting LB for 10-12, he's probably gonna live up to that.

    Right. There is only one Ray Lewis.

    I don't even think JL is a middle guy. I think he's a future Will LB because he is wonderful in open space and a great tackler.

    His weakness is shedding blockers. Not good for a Mike or Sam.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"

  • Or he could become a 5th rounder if he gets hurt....for every reason they make sense, they don't make sense for as many reasons.

    If you can move up, you can move down.

    First round locks should avoid these games.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    Or he could become a 5th rounder if he gets hurt....for every reason they make sense, they don't make sense for as many reasons.

    If you can move up, you can move down.

    First round locks should avoid these games.

    @ballpeen said:

    Or he could become a 5th rounder if he gets hurt....for every reason they make sense, they don't make sense for as many reasons.

    Or he could get hurt during the arduous pre-Combine training, as Wisconsin CB Jack Ikegwuonu did last year. But I don't think players are going to stop trying to shave that hundredth of a second off their 40 times.

    Basically, the whole draft process is about being getting as much possible money as you can. If Rey's got a chance to double his (and his agent's) earnings, he's going to go for it.

    After all, how many players are going to buy, "You shouldn't play because you might suck"?

  • ? Guest

    oldcow1945 said:

    I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

    I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

    I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

    I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

    And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

    Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

    Aloysius said:

    I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

    And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

    Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

    I'm sorry. You are right. If he was running a sub 4.5 he'd truly be a freak.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"

  • Who knows? It could happen.

    A.J. Hawk ran a 4.47 on OSU's fast track (though he ran a 4.59 at the Combine).

    I'm guessing Malcolm Jenkins is going to run in the low-mid 4.3's at his pro day. Anything slower than that would actually be a disappointment.

  • After all, how many players are going to buy, "You shouldn't play because you might suck"?

    Come on Al....I never said that. The closest was they might have a bad week or bad game. Look at Daniels yesterday....I didn't see the game, but by all accounts on here is he sure hurt any chance he had of gaining or holding some draft position.

    Sure it is about money......but sometimes protecting your position makes you just as much as bettering your position....think about it and you will get the point.

    These guys and their agents study things just as much as teams do...they have an idea who is going to draft what....Rey isn't going up to #1 in the draft....and probably isn't falling lower than 12....so then they look at how high they might go with a great showing...if it isn't high enough to justify the gamble of how far they might fall...it isn't worth it.

    If the potential gain isn't worth the potential risk....and it's my money....I know which way I go every time.

    Think of it as a stock...if the best you can gain is say 10%, and the risk is you might lose 80%....you can say what you want...I know how you are going to conduct your affairs....I don't think you are dumb if you need a little clue.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • Sure, I was being a little facetious there. But what I don't think you're getting is that the money at the top of the draft is so significant that it justifies risking a draft stock slide. If a guy like Maualuga's got a chance of moving from 12 to 8, he should take it.

    Let's actually look at the numbers. Using the '08 contracts, a move from 12 to 8 would amount to going from $2.46M/year to $4.76M - a 93.5% dollar increase. If he goes from 12 to 7 ($6.7M), his money increases 172%.

    What happens if he falls? Well, the money towards the bottom of the 1st does follow a consistent negative slope. The last pick of the 1st Round, Kenny Phillips, actually received $2.3M/year, only $0.16M/year less than the 12th pick.

    To counter for that, let's assume Maualuga slides to somewhere in the mid-20's of the 1st. If you average out the last 12 picks of the 1st Round (picks 20-31), you get $2.16M - only a 12% drop from the per year $ at pick #12.

    So the possibility of jumping 4-5 picks clearly justifies risking a 10-15 pick drop.

  • Just acknowledge it is far easier to drop then it is to rise...especially for a guy near the the top.

    You are putting his basement in the 20's.

    It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1.

    You have to consider how far down a person could go....McGahee was a exception. Sever injuries usually drop top players pretty far.

    So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then.

    The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    ? 1 Reply

  • Yeah, I meant the Shrine game. Sorry to confuse. 🙄

    I was more disappointed because my boy Chase Daniel sucked it up.

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  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    Just acknowledge it is far easier to drop then it is to rise...especially for a guy near the the top.

    You are putting his basement in the 20's.

    It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1.

    You have to consider how far down a person could go....McGahee was a exception. Sever injuries usually drop top players pretty far.

    So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then.

    The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same.

    @ballpeen said:

    Just acknowledge it is far easier to drop then it is to rise...especially for a guy near the the top.

    You are putting his basement in the 20's.

    Never said it's his basement. But you have to deal with likely scenarios. Forecasting based on a patella tendon tear is pretty hard. I mean, how high would the likelihood of that happening have to be for him to give up on the chance to make an additional $15-18M?

    And can you give me some names of guys who went to the Senior Bowl projected to be taken in the early teens who had their draft stocks slide? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. On the other hand, Sedrick Ellis ('08), Amobi Okoye ('07), and D'Brickashaw Ferguson ('06) all elevated themselves into or higher into the top 10 with great Senior Bowl week performances.

    It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1.

    Um, okay...but we were talking about the possibly of him rising 4 draft spots vs. the possibility of dropping 15.

    So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then.

    I'll let you do your own research. I'm content that the analysis I've put forward is how actual agents & players look at things. Otherwise, Maualuga wouldn't be participating.

    The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same.

    Last I checked, Maualuga is playing. Laurinaitis is the one who declined an invitation.

    My whole analysis, based on the premise that Rey could make it into the top 10, likely doesn't apply to Laurinaitis. But I'm still inclined to believe that he should have accepted the invitation.

  • Doh!!

    Either way...it doesn't always pay, nor does it pay to get into discussions with you after a few too many beverages and being ticked we are 1 of 5 teams not to go to the Bowl.

    I do think it doesn't pay for many to play in these games, and back to my first point....these games are from a bygone era...I don't think they are all that important for top players. They are best for 3rd rounders and below.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • 09drunk.gif

    Fair enough. But three guys in the past three years have made their way up or into the top 10 based on solid Senior Bowl week performances.

    Those guys didn't make a mistake. And if Maualuga plays well enough that Jack Del Rio decides he has to take him at 8, I doubt Rey Rey will think he made a mistake either.

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