Africa - poor by choice
-
pb and j let cal rant on about things that he obviously has not done much to any research on. 50+ countries thousands of natives tribes all speaking different languages within the same continent that dont recognize any government... Europeans and other countries who have had a foothold on Oil and mineral rights that are stolen from the native populations and money sent here and abroad...
You can always tell someones complete ignorance about the CONTINENT of Africa when someone uses the name of continent to define any specific socio-economic problem or any other problem about any of the many nations and people of that continent.
Legacy you really put up that aid package... to what specific country or region was that supposed to be allocted to? How much money does U.S. medical and oil industries not to mention chemical and mineral corps make from stripping that continents rescources without any epa or any other real oversight poisoning the land and people on a yearly basis? WELL over that aid package that rarely ever actually reach the people from corrupt governments and dictators we help prop up.
I am sure Cal that Obama who has actually been to the continent and probably has read more in a day about the many different cultures and countries that inhabit that continent does not need that article posted by you to learn something..
Legacy you really put up that aid package... to what specific country or region was that supposed to be allocted to?
Since I am well aware of the overwhelming burden of clicking a hyperlink and actually reading the text on said link, here:
And four African nations -- Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt and Uganda -- rank among the world's top 10 recipients in aid from the United States.
Although some activists criticize Bush for not doing more to end the ongoing genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan, others credit him for playing a role in ending deadly conflicts in Liberia, the Congo and other parts of Sudan. Meanwhile, Bush has overseen a steady rise in U.S. trade with Africa, which has doubled since 2001.
Where are Clooney & the Gang's Liberia/Congo bumper stickers & rally's? Also, take note of the doubling of trade.""He [bush 2] should be known for increasing -- doubling development assistance and tripling it to Africa after a period in which U.S. development assistance was essentially flat for decades," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a recent interview with the Associated Press. "He should be known for the largest single investment in AIDS and malaria, the biggest health investment of any government program ever."
-
Last time I checked, the Congolese conflict hasn't ended. The LRA is coming in from Uganda and laying waste to every village in the Northwest of the country. The government and the rebels are still at odds. Uganda is still rife with corruption. The military that is supposed to be fighting the LRA is just sitting in their bases, sending back to the government bills for twice as many soldiers as there actually are. This facilitates the atrocities in Congo.
Or how about in the Central African Republic, where there are roving militias randomly murdering people on charges that they are "witches?"
Liberia has calmed down, but I think that is really more a case of the conflict just finally burning out. They went at it for decades.
Everybody knows we are doing nothing in Sudan because there are 4,000 Chinese soldiers there. China is growing, and needs there oil bad. We don't want to screw with China's shit, and China will veto UN action there.
You listed 4 places where there is US aid going. That is good and all, but there are 34 HIPC countries in sub-saharan Africa. Quit subsidizing every single thing that comes out of the ground if you want to help, our farmers will be fine. I wouldn't really count Egypt with that though, it has more to do with the Israel thing.
-
""He [bush 2] should be known for increasing -- doubling development assistance and tripling it to Africa after a period in which U.S. development assistance was essentially flat for decades," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a recent interview with the Associated Press. "He should be known for the largest single investment in AIDS and malaria, the biggest health investment of any government program ever."
So, Sev, where's the beef? This is a great thing, yes?
Or not, since it isn't a DEM president?
Research it, oh one with a lot of time. I don't have the time, myself.
Versatility and genius has it's limits, and I'm wd40ing our new 10' JD disc,
deciding where to put the greenhouse, studying our 3" thick hay book,
ordering seed,
sorry if my differing opinions shatter your peaceful psyche. Obama DOES need to read the article.
-
Cal my peaceful psyche? yea I have been to a couple of coutries on that continent and the middle east as well as come from a country that has a cease fire from a war over 50 years ago. You talk of farming and then decide to post some information about topics you obviously know very little on. Keep talking about a Continental name as a definition for general problems from a continent that we help strip any natural rescources and leave the local populace with virtually nothing but poisoned air, water and land.
You guys talk about "aid" to a continent as if the rescources we take are not equivelent to well over 100 times the value and leave massive eco damage for the "africans" to deal with. Cal I dont post about farming techniques and the industry because I know very little on that subject maybe you should stick to what you actually know.
-
Cal my peaceful psyche? yea I have been to a couple of coutries on that continent and the middle east as well as come from a country that has a cease fire from a war over 50 years ago. You talk of farming and then decide to post some information about topics you obviously know very little on. Keep talking about a Continental name as a definition for general problems from a continent that we help strip any natural rescources and leave the local populace with virtually nothing but poisoned air, water and land.
You guys talk about "aid" to a continent as if the rescources we take are not equivelent to well over 100 times the value and leave massive eco damage for the "africans" to deal with. Cal I dont post about farming techniques and the industry because I know very little on that subject maybe you should stick to what you actually know.
-
I have a real estate and finance operation, I own interest in a startup web software development company. I did graduate college and lived overseas and in other countries. I spent my youth studying more subjects because my Family had very high educational standards along with exposing me to the world. So I feel I have been lucky and disciplined enough to read and study for most of my life. Maybe that sometimes comes off as being a know it all pompous type. I am not, I know where my limitations are and choose to push into those areas eventually so I can understand and experience more.
That is something I push on my children to experience and learn about anything and everything everyday. If that bothers you than maybe instead of trying to deliver some sarcastic insult pick up a book or attend a class on a subject you dont know... Hell I hear tell of some information superhighway new fangled thing that lets you have access to more knowledge than any library ever in existance had... something called the in ter net.
or you could just throw another insult my way, whatever makes you happy.
on a "farming" note my family and I have decided to raise chickens (brown eggs) and a small garden to start learning about some basic rudimentary farming techniques this year.
-
You guys talk about "aid" to a continent as if the rescources we take are not equivelent to well over 100 times the value and
So we don't pay for any of it? Dude, can I get in on that?
-
come on Legacy you are being coy..... revenue generated from domestic corps that pay more taxes to our government system yearly than our sporadic aid programs.. when they actually do fund. Like I said between oil/chemical/mineral rights our companies own ahem robbed and process destroying their ecology because they obviously dont have a robust epa or any sort of legitimate oversight and sold to our economy and europe's... Not to mention people and employers who put money into mutual funds that profit from those investments.
so yes technically you nor I pay ANY money toward these aid packages because the gross revenue in taxes and earnings from the market well exceed any sort of organized disbursement to that continent.
Africa is not poor by choice, more exploited by first imperialistic europe and than now by advanced capitalism that can deploy technology and money to corrupt.. I mean support governments who grant us anything we want in exchange for living better than the indeginous peoples. Its like what the Catholics did in order to market I mean spread their business... I mean religion to less advanced cultures. Come in with superior arms and funds to build schools that only taught from the Bible to brainwash I mean teach reading and support only leaders who granted them sole rights to exploit.... I mean help their people. That is why Catholicism still has tons of money coming from the Third world where education has much lower standards.
Not poor by choice but by exploitation and manipulation.
-
Maybe that sometimes comes off as being a know it all pompous type SEV
***************************************
-
to refute intelligently with factual information to people who spout biased and unsubstantiated opinion is not pompous. It only comes across that way to the person who is exposed for their lack of knowledge on a subject.
I am sure since you are a programmer if a person came in and posted some code that they made up without any knowledge of what they were doing and passing it off as a working product you could and should expose them. Other people who dont have the benefit of your experience/education and knowledge in that field would benefit and not be taken in or duped into a flawed and false product.
-
come on Legacy you are being coy..... revenue generated from domestic corps that pay more taxes to our government system yearly than our sporadic aid programs.. when they actually do fund. Like I said between oil/chemical/mineral rights our companies own ahem robbed and process destroying their ecology because they obviously dont have a robust epa or any sort of legitimate oversight and sold to our economy and europe's... Not to mention people and employers who put money into mutual funds that profit from those investments.
so yes technically you nor I pay ANY money toward these aid packages because the gross revenue in taxes and earnings from the market well exceed any sort of organized disbursement to that continent.
Africa is not poor by choice, more exploited by first imperialistic europe and than now by advanced capitalism that can deploy technology and money to corrupt.. I mean support governments who grant us anything we want in exchange for living better than the indeginous peoples. Its like what the Catholics did in order to market I mean spread their business... I mean religion to less advanced cultures. Come in with superior arms and funds to build schools that only taught from the Bible to brainwash I mean teach reading and support only leaders who granted them sole rights to exploit.... I mean help their people. That is why Catholicism still has tons of money coming from the Third world where education has much lower standards.
Not poor by choice but by exploitation and manipulation.
come on Legacy you are being coy..... revenue generated from domestic corps that pay more taxes to our government system yearly than our sporadic aid programs.. when they actually do fund. Like I said between oil/chemical/mineral rights our companies own ahem robbed and process destroying their ecology because they obviously dont have a robust epa or any sort of legitimate oversight and sold to our economy and europe's... Not to mention people and employers who put money into mutual funds that profit from those investments.
so yes technically you nor I pay ANY money toward these aid packages because the gross revenue in taxes and earnings from the market well exceed any sort of organized disbursement to that continent.
Africa is not poor by choice, more exploited by first imperialistic europe and than now by advanced capitalism that can deploy technology and money to corrupt.. I mean support governments who grant us anything we want in exchange for living better than the indeginous peoples. Its like what the Catholics did in order to market I mean spread their business... I mean religion to less advanced cultures. Come in with superior arms and funds to build schools that only taught from the Bible to brainwash I mean teach reading and support only leaders who granted them sole rights to exploit.... I mean help their people. That is why Catholicism still has tons of money coming from the Third world where education has much lower standards.
Not poor by choice but by exploitation and manipulation.
No, I'm talking about paying for the resources we are apparently raping. Nothing is free & somebody is collecting a check for our alleged rape (lions & tigers & catholics, Oh my!)
.Are you (and PB&J, since he apparently agrees), calling for a PROHIBITION on purchasing goods from 3rd world nations? Because, I mean now we are at least collecting taxes on it, and some folks are getting paid for those goods/resources.
-
Your analogy is invalid. Self-serving in a huge way, but invalid.
A computer program can be written in fine ways, in different languages.
You simply diss any language you don't program in, as "not the right language"..
elitism. Self - centered, extremely bigoted to anything not buoying one's ego, based on uniqueness as
an end all boon to the same "self".
-
legacy you said apparantly..... there are probably thousands of investigative journalistic pieces written over the last 100 years along with historians writing from multiple countries on the subject of exploitation of the natural wealth of that continent.
the somebody collecting the check would be anyone that benefits from the returns in mutual funds invested in those projects along with the corps that are based in europe and the U.S.
some of you were talking about Aid packages like we the general tax payers were paying for it when really thay is false. We benefit from the raw materials and products immensly and give little to nothing in return. So this topic was flawed and intellectually dishonest.
Cal..... was that a response toward the pompous charge? that was an odd post and not even a response to your ability to bust a fraud who does not know how to code in any of the myriad languages availabe but tries to pass of information like he does.
-
"Apparently" was sarcasm.
My point, is that the US (& imperial Europe) is/was only taking advantage of the corruption & greed already present in the countries. Capitalism didn't invent greed, as many of you like to believe.
To start a slave trade, a chief/ruler/whatever has to be willing to trade his own people for guns & booze. We didn't steal people.
To continue the blood diamond trade, those in charge are willing to allow the bloodshed & tyranny continue in exchange for a case of 7.63 x 39mm rounds & a pack of smokes every day. Those who "employ" their own villages to mine for the things. We aren't stealing them.
Just because you wouldn't dig through dirt for $.20/day with your uncle standing over top of you with a machete & a rusty Kalashnikova rifle doesn't mean that continent isn't being reimbursed.
-
good god legacy you cant be serious. You think we are not stealing because corps and countries are able to bribe a select few into enslaving or abusing their population?
If a advanced culture arms 100 strong men with rusty ak-47 against spears in order to retain control and then brings in their own private military contractors what exactly do you think that is?
wow justifying ecological disasters that corp KNOWINGLY fully realize they are doing because the limited knowledge of organized resistance and or governmental operations is ok and not stealing....
blood diamonds.....ok Debeers is banned in the united states as a monopoly and currently operates a HUGE private militia all over Africa.....
so slavery was not wrong for countries because someone was able to bribe some of the indegenous population? I am the athiest and you are a christian right? where is your moral compass?
-
good god legacy you cant be serious. You think we are not stealing because corps and countries are able to bribe a select few into enslaving or abusing their population?
If a advanced culture arms 100 strong men with rusty ak-47 against spears in order to retain control and then brings in their own private military contractors what exactly do you think that is?
wow justifying ecological disasters that corp KNOWINGLY fully realize they are doing because the limited knowledge of organized resistance and or governmental operations is ok and not stealing....
blood diamonds.....ok Debeers is banned in the united states as a monopoly and currently operates a HUGE private militia all over Africa.....
so slavery was not wrong for countries because someone was able to bribe some of the indegenous population? I am the athiest and you are a christian right? where is your moral compass?
good god legacy you cant be serious. You think we are not stealing because corps and countries are able to bribe a select few into enslaving or abusing their population?
So now world socialism is the goal?
You'll have a problem getting your fellow lefties to move into mud huts but maybe Obammy can give a speech...?
WSS
-
Sev, the FREAKIN POINT is...
that Africa is destitute in many countries, many, many areas....
and government dole "enslaves" people to dependency.
It has nothing to do with other countries going in there and
getting natural resources out of there, which they have done, you think that
is not by "permission" by whoever is the "government" now?
It has nothing to do with the slave trade. Did you know that
it was corrupt AFRICAN BLACKS who also were bringing AFRICAN BLACKS to
other countries to be slaves? Intertribe fighting and oppression has been
going on for how long now?
The Peace Corps has been working to teach a lot of the poor
to garden and farm for themselves. In some areas, that works.
But all too often, government dole breeds depency and sloth.
The African governments should have kicked out the diamond traders and foreign
natural resource groups who treated their poverty stricken "employees" so poorly
long ago.
but as usual in this world, those in power live and eat like kings, while their populace
suffers from poverty in the worst degree.
But poverty and infighting goes on, and so does the dependency of the poor Africans
who have not much choice, unless they can have gov's who will protect their FREEDOM
and can get some land and equipment to do their own farming.
Until then, whining that American farmers get assistance is ridiculous, depending on the weather,
a whole LOT of farmers could be wiped out by too much debt and no income, causing them to
not be able to fund the huge amount of $$$$ the next year to farm.
Weather affects food production. The system has checks and balances in it to perpetuate
the ability to farm.
It has nothing to do with keeping Africans poor.
Always the victimizing of themselves, and the rest of us and our country is the "bad guy".
Every freakin time ???
-
wss where you turned to the conclusion that systematic socialism is what I was proposing is extremely offbase,
Cal in that last post you where talking a awful lot about what governments in that continent should do and their responsibility for their people......
here is the problem.... if said government which i will refer to as X was developed and organized by colonialism and then with the subsequent world transition to capitalism is given option A which usually is we will help you initially if you give us all rights and access to your rescources you will be granted freedom and support.
well like the trickle down theory that fails to take into account human corruption those influences know factually that they can corrupt those individuals and do so. Its not rocket science and people dont often like to hear they benefit from less than moral actions such as what is used in Africa.
Diamonds.... oil... and tons of other minerals are extracted from that continent and we do prop up corps and policies that in fact do basically steal and poison from the local populace.
I do blame personal and governmental responsibility on the locals, I am realistice enough to understand the allure of money and support and how it affects a majority of people.
Its not our fault directly.... more indirectly and honestly ignorance by the out of sight out of mind principle. The aid packages that is talked about in the news is just marketing window dressing so our population thinks we are helping. Ultimately it is each countries and population responsibility, I just happen to hold the opinion that outside influeces now are too strong and ingrained generationally for the corruption to realistically change. Look at our own system which is completely corrupted and hijacked by money and special interest.
We dont exactly act or do much because we have our basic needs and entertainment value met.
-
Now you've aggravated me SEV. Very nice post...
Can't disagree, except the last line. Pres Bush invested more billions of $$$$$ to fight aids than ever before in our history...
but the $$$$ goes to? Depends on the governments. Corruption? Greed?
Sadly, seems to be any direction you can shake a stick.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login