Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
Farmer has nothing but good to say about every one. Espn tryin like hell to blow their darling JF.
-
If we are looking for a "polarizing, lightning rod" player, we should draft someone from Palantonio's hometown of Philly: Ben Franklin.
I mean, he would be money. π₯·
-
No JF
Yes Evans
-
Derek Carr will throw twice the interceptions as Manziel could ever dream of throwing.
Derick Carr will remind us of Weeden.
-
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
===========================================
Why Johnny Manziel must not be drafted.
The 2012/ 2013 Texas Aggie Edition of Johnny Manziel that thrilled millions of fans is as good as he will ever be.
So the first question is how good was he?
Was he Pro playoff good? Yes...
Was he Pro Conference Champ good? I don't think so... so I can not see a single SB appearance in a team's future with him at the helm.
So next question is why isn't he Conf Champ good? For this we have to look at QB comparisons...
Favre (2 SB appearances; 1 SB win)
There are a lot of valid elements to this popular comparison... running ability... gambling nature... guts... bailing out of pocket... poor judgment.. ego... However, the one element lacking that collapses the comparison is arm strength and without this critical element Manziel will consistently write Favre-like checks that his JF arm cannot cash.
Fran Tarkenton (3 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Sir Francis, as those of us at certain age know him, was a trailblazer in the art of scrambling. And he scrambled out of necessity. Tarkenton ran for his life behind some very porous lines in both MN and NY.
Fran almost exclusively ran to buy time to pass... to extend pass plays. He "ran" infrequently averaging just over 15 ypg for his career... his 18-year career. His rushing zenith was 376 yards on 62 carries in 12 games in 1966. Not coincidentally in '66 Fran missed the only two starts of his career outside of his rookie season. This in an era where there was open season on any QB, if you could catch them.
Fran ran 675 times in an 18-year pro career... JF ran 345 times in a two-year college career. Some of JF's runs were by staff/ game plan design, but many, many more were spawned by JF's lack of patience in the pocket.
And finally...
R. Wilson (1 SB appearance; 1 SB win)
I've seen this comparison in a few places and it bewilders me. Beyond size (including the now popular hand size), it's hard to find any valid elements here.
Wilson is a smart football player who plays under control.... even runs under control. He's a team first player who checks his ego with the equipment manager when he suits up. He is a "game manager". In other words RW is the temperamental polar opposite of JF.
Ego is the clincher I see that dooms JF and his team to "also ran" perpetuity.
I think the above addresses the "why isn't he Conf Champ good" question leaving one last question...
Why can't JF improve and become Conf Champ/ SB good?
The above ego comments may suffice, but to answer this I have to draw upon one more comparison.... one I have seldom seen, but feel is most apt.
Michael Vick (0 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Michael has a stronger arm, but otherwise I think they are a match. Speed, size, competitiveness and ego-driven game inflexibility are all there.
If I had $100,000 for every time Vick got dinged running around "being Michael Vick" followed by "if Michael Vick could only learn to be a pocket passer", then I'd have another million dollars... and host a Browns Board party in a Browns Suite.
But whenever coaches tried to reign in Michael, they took away what made Michael "electric". They made him "average".
The same will be true of JF.
You cannot make a near-great player great by eliminating the characteristic(s) that made him near-great.
A near-great career is all Manziel will ever have...
just like Michael Vick...
minus the whole dog thing...
hopefully...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
===========================================
Why Johnny Manziel must not be drafted.
The 2012/ 2013 Texas Aggie Edition of Johnny Manziel that thrilled millions of fans is as good as he will ever be.
So the first question is how good was he?
Was he Pro playoff good? Yes...
Was he Pro Conference Champ good? I don't think so... so I can not see a single SB appearance in a team's future with him at the helm.
So next question is why isn't he Conf Champ good? For this we have to look at QB comparisons...
Favre (2 SB appearances; 1 SB win)
There are a lot of valid elements to this popular comparison... running ability... gambling nature... guts... bailing out of pocket... poor judgment.. ego... However, the one element lacking that collapses the comparison is arm strength and without this critical element Manziel will consistently write Favre-like checks that his JF arm cannot cash.
Fran Tarkenton (3 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Sir Francis, as those of us at certain age know him, was a trailblazer in the art of scrambling. And he scrambled out of necessity. Tarkenton ran for his life behind some very porous lines in both MN and NY.
Fran almost exclusively ran to buy time to pass... to extend pass plays. He "ran" infrequently averaging just over 15 ypg for his career... his 18-year career. His rushing zenith was 376 yards on 62 carries in 12 games in 1966. Not coincidentally in '66 Fran missed the only two starts of his career outside of his rookie season. This in an era where there was open season on any QB, if you could catch them.
Fran ran 675 times in an 18-year pro career... JF ran 345 times in a two-year college career. Some of JF's runs were by staff/ game plan design, but many, many more were spawned by JF's lack of patience in the pocket.
And finally...
R. Wilson (1 SB appearance; 1 SB win)
I've seen this comparison in a few places and it bewilders me. Beyond size (including the now popular hand size), it's hard to find any valid elements here.
Wilson is a smart football player who plays under control.... even runs under control. He's a team first player who checks his ego with the equipment manager when he suits up. He is a "game manager". In other words RW is the temperamental polar opposite of JF.
Ego is the clincher I see that dooms JF and his team to "also ran" perpetuity.
I think the above addresses the "why isn't he Conf Champ good" question leaving one last question...
Why can't JF improve and become Conf Champ/ SB good?
The above ego comments may suffice, but to answer this I have to draw upon one more comparison.... one I have seldom seen, but feel is most apt.
Michael Vick (0 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Michael has a stronger arm, but otherwise I think they are a match. Speed, size, competitiveness and ego-driven game inflexibility are all there.
If I had $100,000 for every time Vick got dinged running around "being Michael Vick" followed by "if Michael Vick could only learn to be a pocket passer", then I'd have another million dollars... and host a Browns Board party in a Browns Suite.
But whenever coaches tried to reign in Michael, they took away what made Michael "electric". They made him "average".
The same will be true of JF.
You cannot make a near-great player great by eliminating the characteristic(s) that made him near-great.
A near-great career is all Manziel will ever have...
just like Michael Vick...
minus the whole dog thing...
hopefully...
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
-
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
doubt he goes to pittsburgh. ben said yesterday he doesn't think he could stay upright in this league.....
Ben Roethlisberger would choose Blake Bortles over Johnny ManzielSince nobody seems to know which about-to-be-drafted quarterback will go where and to whom, we might as well listen to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to get his thoughts on the matter.
Roethlisberger's take: he likes Johnny Manziel and Blake Bortles, but if he wanted a long-term franchise signal-caller, he'd probably go with the latter.
βI talked to Blake, and I know Blake has that fiery chip,β Roethlisberger said on 93.7 FM in Pittsburgh, via the Tribune Review. βI think he's going to be the best one of the group because I see something in him, his competitiveness, his leadership. And I think he's got a lot of upside.β
But that's not to say Roethlisberger doesn't think Manziel can find professional success. He even said Manziel could be a star early in his career. What Roethlisberger worries about, though, is the long-term viability of allowing Manziel to make plays outside of the pocket.
More from Roethlisberger:
βI was in the weight room the other day with Joey Porter, (and he was) asking me what I thought about Manziel. I looked at Joey and said, βJoey, do you think if you got a good hit on him, that he would be OK? And he said, βNo, not at all.' And that's my question.
βYou have guys like Joey Porter, who's a big guy, guys that are fast like Troy (Polamalu), Ike Taylor coming off the edge, Lawrence Timmons. You'd better be real athletic, get down or be big to absorb the pounding an NFL quarterback can take.
βI think he definitely has a lot of upside, but let's wait and see. The key I'll say every year when I get asked about RGIII (Robert Griffin III), Andrew Luck, or whoever it is, Cam Newton. It's not about your first year, it's about years two, three and four.
βCan you sustain it when defenses, like Coach (Dick) LeBeau and the defenses he coaches, when they figure you out, can you find a way to stay a step above them?"
It's a legitimate question from one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league. And Roethlisberger certainly isn't alone in wondering if this is Manziel's fatal flaw. Soon enough,we'll see if Jacksonville is one of those who have questions about it.
even though the guys a rapist he might no a little something about taking hits in the nfl.
-
But tour who came here because he loved McCoy. LMAO.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.β - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Just fucking with ya... Carry on.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Just fucking with ya... Carry on.
WSS
Just fucking with ya... Carry on.
WSS
lol... well done, Sir...
-
got me.
-
But tour who came here because he loved McCoy. LMAO.
But tour who came here because he loved McCoy. LMAO.
I don't think that was the reason.. more like I love the Browns, but whatever...
I do remember thinking that of the choices of an over-the-hill Delhomme, a never was Wallach and Colt, that Colt was the clear choice.
Also remember saying that Wheezy was a terrible pick and was never going to be the guy, and that Colt deserved to start over him.
You want to argue for any of the other three mentioned above?
-
I think youre really scraping the bottom of the barrel now Tour. Id be happy with playoffs.
-
Tour2ma's PhotoTour2ma
Today, 10:13 PM
Westside Steve, on 07 May 2014 - 8:39 PM, said:
Just fucking with ya... Carry on.
WSS
lol... well done, Sir...
Shucks old crabapple can't even take a little joke...
WSS
-
...
Why do so few people have Jacksonville selecting Manziel 3rd overall?
-
You miss that picture? if I'm a GM that's not exactly the sort of clientele I want my franchise quarterback hanging out with on Saturday night.
Farmer did make a reference to it- that JF didn't handle the fame & adulation well. The question is- This is the big boy league now- time to grow up kid. Question is can he?
What was wrong with that picture? And what teenager has ever handled fame and adulation well?
@walterwhite said:
Hoorta, you honestly sound like a dad from the 1950's right now.
Manziel has gotten his shit together the past year and has done everything to train hard and not get into any trouble.
He's lightyears ahead of turds like Mettenbooger and Winston in that regard.
Manziel will be fine and a gem for whatever team decides to take him
You know who else sounds like a dad from the 50s? Most GMs- because they're around my age. And I hate to tell you they will all have the same concerns that I do- especially when they're having the owner write million dollar checks for a guy. They probably don't want him showing up on a police report. It's also a little thing called job security. Screwing up on a top 10 pick is a recipe for a quick trip to the unemployment line.
What was wrong with that picture? And what teenager has ever handled fame and adulation well?
Every other one of the other top qbs in the draft? Bridgewater buying a Cadillac for his mom? Carr staying home with the wife? You want to tell me McCarron wasn't as high profile quarterbacking a National Championship team at Alabama? He seems to have handled dating a super model quite nicely, thank you very much. OTOH, Manziel sucked up all the fame and adulation like a dehydrated pig at a water trough, and used his notoriety as Carte Blanche to behave for the most part as a Class A asshole off the field. And it was totally unnecessary. What was wrong with that picture? Hello? Like none of those guys are dopers? The NFL is all about image- and if you're going to hang with those sort of guys- don't put it on your Twitter page- jerk. I hope LeBum can knock some sense into his thick head. this isn't about drafting some second string running back- it's about drafting the face of your franchise.
...
Why do so few people have Jacksonville selecting Manziel 3rd overall?
Haha- the stealth pick. If it's all about putting fans in the stands- no franchise picking in the top 5 needs that more than the Jags.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better π
Register Login