Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@everlastingxxx said:
A question to those that have seen the build up to the other 20 quarterbacks. Does this feel any different? Is there any clue that you can sense that gives you slightly more hope?
Tim Couch had even more hype, because it was the rebirth of the franchise and all that. The Pro Couch v Anti Couch debates were something to behold. I was the founder of "Camp Couch" for all of those who had faith in our boy Tim the whole way through, and Atenears (the guy who owns this site) was the leader of "The Darkside", the guys that gagged at the couch hype and never bought into him.
Ty Detmer was a placeholder. Held that place for one awful, awful game.
Spergon Wynn was a brilliant pick, took him in the 6th round in 2000 draft to be Couch's backup (or perhaps, competition). The next QB taken that round was some kid named Brady. Wynn was over his head and had no hype.
Doug Pederson was an injury replacement ... and not a good one.
Kelly Holcomb got some people excited. He was Manning's backup (like Hoyer to Brady) and when he got a chance at the end of 2002 season, he excelled. Helped us to beat Atlanta to get into the the playoffs, and then torched the Steelers in the playoffs for over 400 yards passing, a gme we had won until Dennis Northcutt dropped a perfectly thrown ball from Holcomb. Another heartbreaker. The next year, Holcomb was named the starter over Couch, a heated competition among fans and on the field, had his own BBQ sauce and was getting some love ... and then he was really flat when he opened the season with the job ... much more like Bad Hoyer than good Hoyer.
The next year Jeff Garcia was brought in and the fanbase took an immediate dislike to him. He just didn't seem like a good fit, and he wasn't. But he married a local Playboy centerfold while he was here, so good for him.
That same year we had drafted Luke McCown in the fourth round, so with the season lost, we started him for four games after Butch Davis bailed. With Terry Robiskie as coach and McCown as QB we went0-4 and any enthusiasm for McCown dwindled with each appearance, I think we finally went back to Holcomb for a win at the end of the season. Ugly.
The next year we cleaned house, new coach, New QBs. We signed Trent Difer to be the starter and picked "Local Boy" Charlie Frye in the third round to groom for the future. The fanbase hated the Dilfer selection because of his days with the ravens, and because of the fact that he sucked. He lasted 11 games before Frye came in for the last five. Frye was very mediocre, which was starting to look good for us. Guys started dressing up as "Fryes Guys" with french fry costumes on ... it was as gay as it sounds.
Frye's full season as a starter was a disaster, one of those years where our defense seemed promising but the offense kept sending them back onto the field. Frye thankfully got injured, and we saw a little bit of Derek Anderson at the end of the year, he at least had an arm, but he was tripping over his own feet.
So then came the glorious 2007 season: We traded a first and a second with Dallas to move up and take "Local Boy" and matinee idol, Brady Quinn. There was much hype about Quinn, maybe more than Manziel (it just dissipates a little with each disappointment), but he held out which meant the starting job was going to go to either Frye or Anderson. I had coined a term for that two-headed monster called "Oafwigger", because Frye was criticized as a "wigger" and Anderson looked like a big oaf in clown shoes his rookie year.
Romeo Crennel infamously decided to "flip a coin" to determine the starter between the oaf and the wigger, and the wigger won, and he went out and promptly shit his his pants in front of 72,000 on opening day versus the Steelers. They traded Frye by Tuesday and Anderson was named starter as Quinn was still not deemed ready.
Well, Anderson goes out throws for 5 TDs and puts up 51 points to beat the Bungles (The bar is high, Johnny) in his first game as starter and the legend of Derek "Horseballs" Anderson is born. Not much hype with Anderson, except for one relentless guy, but there was hope. He had a Pro Bowl season and we went 10-6, but he noticibely tapered off and made mistakes down the stretch which some some saw as a warning sign ... and they were right.
The next year, 2008, everything blew up. On the field, and on the board. Anderson struggled big time and the "Quinn Fags" as they were now called were impatient, to say the least. It was much worse than Johnny, you couldn't start a conversation without it turning to "Brady, Brady, Brady" ... Quinn eventually got his chance and he was, if anything, worse than Anderson. "Stillborn" is how I describe it. He lost his job back to Anderson, then Anderson got hurt, Brady back in, he go hurt, Ken Dorsey (umm ... no buildup) got in, he got hurt, Bruce Gradkowski grabbed off the street (no buildup) .. poor bastard had no chance and now he's a stiller.
The Quinn Fags tried to revolt because we wouldn't get rid of the one Anderson fan, so instead we got rid of all the Quinn Fags. The next year, both Quinn and Anderson were awful and Romeo got fired, the GM got fired, time to start all over...
So in 2010 we were going to "return to the basics" with Eric Mangini. We brought in veteran Jake Del Homme to man the ship, Seneca Wallace to back him up, and took a flyer on another college hero, this time it was tiny Texan Colt McCoy in the third round. He was just going to sit and learn though, with two veterans ahead of him ... right. Del Hommo sucks, gets injured. Wallace sucks, gets injured. By week 6, Colt McCoy is the starter. He has a lot of "moxie" and is very likeable, so we all latch onto him and hope for the best.
Colt was thrown to the wolves too early and was overwhelmed. He got the entire season to start in 2011, but left after a concussion in week 13. I think he only had one 300 yard game, but most weeks he never got 200. He just wasn't a big-time passer in a league of big-time passers.
The next year Brandon Weeden, "The Oldest Rookie of Them All" is drafted, and the mood was hopeful, but guarded. Very guarded. We felt like we reached and we did. Once he and Colt got injured, then we had the Thaddeus Lewis era for one game. We lost, he didn't come back.
So last year, we all hate Weeden already, they sign veteran Jason Campbell to back him up and grabbed "Local Boy" Brian Hoyer as third string insurance. Weeden blows, Hoyer leapfrogs Campbell and jumpstarts a dormant offense, the city finally has a QB to be excited about ... and he blows out his knee. We go 1-12 in games started by Weeds and Campy and video's like "Angry Browns Fans Christmas" start to appear.
That brings us to you, and your boy.
Excited? Yes. Hopeful? Yes. But by now the attitude is more of a "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, PLEASE LET HIM BE THE ONE!"
No Pressure.
Zombo
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Oafwigger, lol. I forgot about that.
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Whatever happened to the whole Texas secession thing....werent they gonna leave and be their own country or something?.....
If that had happened, we'd have the first foreign QB, right?
Browns Board HOF worthy summary there Z...
Maybe we need a "history" section?
Whatever happened to the whole Texas secession thing....werent they gonna leave and be their own country or something?.....
If that had happened, we'd have the first foreign QB, right?
lol... well Perry won re-election as "Gubner" and had to tone it down for the Prez Priamries... Especially since he was dead wrong about Texas having a special right to secede granted when it originally joined the union.
The terms of Annexation that supposedly allows Texas to cease being the state we now know, required it to be broken into five regions that could individually apply for statehood... not a desirable demotion for the "Gubner".
But even if the Annexation term was still held up as valid, it's clearly trumped now by a little thing called The Constitution which prohibits existing states splitting into smaller states. Perry's never read past the 2nd Amendment.
And FYI... Perry is much smarter now... wears glasses and everything.
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Fuck. Just realised this game is going to be televised over here. Why so mad? Because the service that has the rights to it (Sky), I don't have. The service that I have (gamepass) shows every game that isn't on the other service. Fuck.
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How about the war between Ohio and Michigan?
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its going to be great when johnny wins us the game.
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Fucking Ft Wayne
Road trip to Toledo. There's a nice Sports Bar in Sylvania.
And here I am in North Carolina stuck with the barn-burner of Carolina vs Tampa Bay. I get it but damn. At least I get to see them live next week!
In a word Directv Sunday Ticket.
@everlastingxxx said:
A question to those that have seen the build up to the other 20 quarterbacks. Does this feel any different? Is there any clue that you can sense that gives you slightly more hope?
Zombo said it 10X better than I ever could. Very guarded optimism- I was in Camp Couch from the beginning, in fact I think I started it.
So E, I think you can see now why most of the oldsters here are taking a "wait and see" attitude about Johnny- we've seen far, far too may flops- by any method you can dream up- to get our hopes up yet. It's not like the Browns haven't TRIED to find a great qb since 1999.
going back even farther- we've had Kosar and Sipe- and even I'm not old enough to remember Otto Graham playing. BTW, "Automatic Otto's" feat gets lost in the distant mists of time. He played in what would now be considered the Super Bowl 10 straight years (every year he played professional football), and won 8 of them. JFF duplicates that feat, ESPN will declare him able to walk on water.
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And still... Fuck Ft Wayne
So, why the Ft. Wayne hate?
So, why the Ft. Wayne hate?
Gip, having lived in Fort Wayne for the last 22 years I will shed some light on MLD's concern. Obviously living in Colt country each week we're fed Colt games. Being 107 miles from Indy it's out of black out range. So there's your AFC game.
You can drive to Detroit , Chicago, Cincinnati, or Cleveland in approximately 3.5 hours. We are fed a steady diet of Lions and Bears games or even Packers games . Rarely we get to see the Browns around here. If you noticed the national broadcast map this week you will see that once again we get the fucking Packers game in the Fort and parts of Ohio to include Paulding. Fort Wayne reminds me of the Island for Misfit Toys. There is also a large amount of front running Steeler assholes around here but rarely do you actually find one from Pittsburg or even Pennsylvania of course. I have met only one Lions fan in over twenty years here. Bears fans are represented moderately as are Browns fans. I wear my Browns gear proudly when I go to the bars to watch games on Sunday and have noticed more and more "coming out" . It's like an A A meeting. "Hi, my name is Bob I'm a Browns fan" .
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I'd say most of us hate the Cowboys. In order of hatred:
Steelers Ravens Bengals and Cowboys.
Others I generally root against but don't hate too badly Miami Dolphins Denver Broncos, Atlanta Falcons, Philadelphia Eagles, Oakland Raiders, New Orleans Saints. Some I just kind of don't like Seattle Seahawks, Jacksonville Jaguars, Washington Redskins, Carolina Panthers, Houston dumbass Texans, Arizona Cardinals,......
The rest I either don't mind and root for if it doesn't affect the Browns or just don't care.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I drove to Chicago a couple weeks ago. It was the same day OSU played Michigan and I just planned to listen to the game as I drove across Indiana....
You'd think it would be on, right?.....not!
All I got was Indiana- Purdue(understandable....I guess)....or the Illinois game....channel after channel....no osu - mich.....wtf????
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I drove to Chicago a couple weeks ago. It was the same day OSU played Michigan and I just planned to listen to the game as I drove across Indiana....
You'd think it would be on, right?.....not!
All I got was Indiana- Purdue(understandable....I guess)....or the Illinois game....channel after channel....no osu - mich.....wtf????
I drove to Chicago a couple weeks ago. It was the same day OSU played Michigan and I just planned to listen to the game as I drove across Indiana....
You'd think it would be on, right?.....not!
All I got was Indiana- Purdue(understandable....I guess)....or the Illinois game....channel after channel....no osu - mich.....wtf????
Exactly !
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Great qb post zombo. Jeez what a clusterfuck
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I drove to Chicago a couple weeks ago. It was the same day OSU played Michigan and I just planned to listen to the game as I drove across Indiana....
You'd think it would be on, right?.....not!
All I got was Indiana- Purdue(understandable....I guess)....or the Illinois game....channel after channel....no osu - mich.....wtf????
Exactly !
Exactly !
Bad enough I couldnt watch...but not even on the radio?
Yep....you bet I was pissed off and cussing Indiana that day....
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@everlastingxxx said:
As a Cowboys fan, i always root against the Patriots. They havent won a Super Bowl since they were caught cheating. Their punishment was a hand slap because Goodell is a known Patriot fan. The lame tuck rule that screwed the Raiders. Getting embarrassed by Eli Manning twice in Super Bowls, lol. Who was a Patriots fan before Brady came along? Seriously? I do like Bill Belichick, he is a great coach.
Here is a link for the Pats fan that needs an education in Texas history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Jacinto
It's a shame Bill had to learn how to coach in Cleveland before he moved on to NE.
To Art Modell's credit- he will go down in history of having the acumen to fire TWO HOF coaches. Paul Brown, and I consider Bill B to be a lock to get in eventually.
Regarding the Cowboys- us guys up North despise the "America's Team" moniker. I had the pleasure of flipping Jerry Jones the bird- along with a few hundred other Browns fans- the last time the Cowboys played in Cleveland. Old Jerry was sitting in the owners box right behind us.
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I don't think its Tom Brady that gives New England fans this arrogance- even for all the years the Red Sox and Patriots weren't great, New England fans are typically arrogant jackasses who can only respond to disagreement by insisting that they are right.
Nothing new to me, I am a lawyer after all.
Also I don't think the Pats will necessarily be a bad team again just because Brady retires. If they let Jimmy G. learn behind Brady for a few years I could see him being a decent franchise quarterback. He is a FAR better backup skill-set wise than Mallet and Hoyer ever were (though you guys know all too well about the latter)
Oh, now you really sound like a freeking Steeler fan: "We are great because we are great and nothing will ever turn us from the path of greatness."
FYI, I think only twice in the history of the NFL did a team lose a HOF caliber QB and follow it up with another HOF caliber QB.
Joe Montana followed by Steve Young
Brett Favre followed by Aaron Rodgers.
and maybe include Bob Waterfield followed by Norm Van Brocklin.
(and in the near future probably Peyton followed by Luck)
Jimmy Garropolo might be your Mark Malone (who had to follow up both Terry Bradshaw and Dan Fouts) or your Brian (not Bob) Griese or your Jay Fiedler or your Quincy Carter...or your Tommy O'Connell
I never said Jimmy G. would be a HoF QB, nor did I say that we would be a championship team. I said I think he has the talent to be a "decent franchise quarterback". Also do I think we will still be contenders? As long as we have Bill Belichick, yes we will be. We may not win the AFC east every year after Brady leaves but yes we will still be in the running because Belichick knows how to assemble a good squad of guys year after year.
I never said Jimmy G. would be a HoF QB, nor did I say that we would be a championship team. I said I think he has the talent to be a "decent franchise quarterback". Also do I think we will still be contenders? As long as we have Bill Belichick, yes we will be. We may not win the AFC east every year after Brady leaves but yes we will still be in the running because Belichick knows how to assemble a good squad of guys year after year.
Well, BB had 5 seasons here and he had a losing record in 4 out of 5. In his first year in NE without Brady starting he went 5-11.
So, the only evidence we have is that without Tom Brady at QB.... he has been a loser in 5 out of 6 years.
But my suspicion is that BB will retire as the HC of the NEP when Brady calls it quits.....and then you will have a guy born in the same hospital as me for your HC.
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Texas is a cute place with a fascinating lack of self-awareness.
They fetishize their military history ["Don't Mess With Texas"] yet the actual historical record shows that Texas conclusively lost every engagement they were in.
The "free" state of Texas was bailed out by the US Federal Government - each and every time.
Texas is a cute place with a fascinating lack of self-awareness.
They fetishize their military history ["Don't Mess With Texas"] yet the actual historical record shows that Texas conclusively lost every engagement they were in.
The "free" state of Texas was bailed out by the US Federal Government - each and every time.
No, the Battle of San Jacinto was all Texas (with the help, sure, of voluteers from various states).....they won that battle and their independence on their own.
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I never said Jimmy G. would be a HoF QB, nor did I say that we would be a championship team. I said I think he has the talent to be a "decent franchise quarterback". Also do I think we will still be contenders? As long as we have Bill Belichick, yes we will be. We may not win the AFC east every year after Brady leaves but yes we will still be in the running because Belichick knows how to assemble a good squad of guys year after year.
Well, BB had 5 seasons here and he had a losing record in 4 out of 5. In his first year in NE without Brady starting he went 5-11.
So, the only evidence we have is that without Tom Brady at QB.... he has been a loser in 5 out of 6 years.
But my suspicion is that BB will retire as the HC of the NEP when Brady calls it quits.....and then you will have a guy born in the same hospital as me for your HC.
Well, BB had 5 seasons here and he had a losing record in 4 out of 5. In his first year in NE without Brady starting he went 5-11.
So, the only evidence we have is that without Tom Brady at QB.... he has been a loser in 5 out of 6 years.
But my suspicion is that BB will retire as the HC of the NEP when Brady calls it quits.....and then you will have a guy born in the same hospital as me for your HC.
Agreed. However you have to take into account that he didn't quite run the Browns like he runs the Patriots. The Pats are the BB show. He is GM and HC and he gets the players HE wants, and does what HE wants with them. His first year here, he didn't have as much of a chance to craft the team and he pretty much got what was handed to him, and look at the pick that he DID make in the draft. He picked arguably one of the All-Time greatest QB's in the game of football when no other team even gave him a look. But there are many other things that make him a great coach, I think too many people emphasize the Brady thing. It will be very interesting indeed to see what happens when the Brady days are over.
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Haha....I always laugh when folks act like hot, dusty, sweaty, nasty places are better because there isnt snow or cold.....
I'll take my winter....to be rewarded with glorious springs....perfectly tolerable(and GREEN) summers......beautiful, cool falls......all topped by a blanket of white for christmas.....
My bro lives in Tucson, the ugliest and most hostile environment Ive ever been in.....I wouldn't last a week there.....
And I visit Texas & Oklahoma about 5-6 times a year and wouldn't trade for a day.....or an hour....
Well, to be honest, that has been my attitude too......but now that I am the age I am dealing with ice where you have to walk...and snow is becoming a problem. Plus I am starting to get some of those little tweeking pains from the cold...so I could see leaving the cold weather. But where would be the best place to go? I hate humid sweltering heat.....like Fla/Louisiana/ parts of Texas. San Diego and other parts of California might be great weather wise....but the traffic/cost of living etc. seem intolerable. Arizona is a possibility....but not Tuscon or Phoenix.....north toward Prescott or Sedona might be good. Flagstaff is too far north as they get a ton of snow there.
Well, to be honest, that has been my attitude too......but now that I am the age I am dealing with ice where you have to walk...and snow is becoming a problem. Plus I am starting to get some of those little tweeking pains from the cold...so I could see leaving the cold weather. But where would be the best place to go? I hate humid sweltering heat.....like Fla/Louisiana/ parts of Texas. San Diego and other parts of California might be great weather wise....but the traffic/cost of living etc. seem intolerable. Arizona is a possibility....but not Tuscon or Phoenix.....north toward Prescott or Sedona might be good. Flagstaff is too far north as they get a ton of snow there.
My vote is for Sedona/Prescott. I visited there five years back and loved it. Plan to return and seriously considering retiring there someyear.
Browns Board HOF worthy summary there Z...
Maybe we need a "history" section?
Indeed. I'm copying and saving that summary for my own use when someone asks me about Browns woes and the QB carousel! (credit to Z)
One big difference is the sports media and portions of the country outside of Ohio are tuning in to see what Johnny does. The previous QB no one cared except Browns fans and a few college fanboy followers. Nothing to this degree though.
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Anybody notice who the analyst is for Derek Anderson's start in Carolina this week? That's right ... Brady Quinn
AWKWARD
Zombo
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