Who is under more pressure? Pet or Farmer?
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It filters down.
Unfortunately, yes it does. .... seems that very few are able to form their own sports opinions, because they focus on the gossip columns instead....sports is going the way of Fox news....
So how did Oakland wind up with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr? We had two first round picks that Farmer bungled. Trading away # 4 then trading back in for Gilbert? This is illogical and arrogant.
Trading a 1st round pick for 2 first rounds picks is illogical and arrogant?.....picking the #1 CB is illogical and arrogant?....how?
Only thing I see that is illogical is your comment.......and arm chair QB's who sit at home and second guess pros are a bit arrogant if you ask me.....
. We cannot let our FA Talent walk like TJ and still have millionS (30) above the Cap...
Um, yes we can........especially when they are replaced by better talent. All of our FA signings improved the team, with the exception of Tate, who was beat out by other players brought in by Farmer.....
No doubt, Whitner and Dansby were an improvement over Ward and Jackson....
And in ONE off season, we improved almost every position group....Linebackers(Kirksey/Dansby), DB's (Whitnet/Gilbert/Williams/Desir), Oline(Bitonio), RB's(Crow/West/Winston), WR (Hawkins/Gabe/Austin), TE (Dray).....
So, I challenge the haters to show me one recent Browns FO that did so much good in just one off season....and Ill add they did it on the fly, with little or no time to prepare.....
Oh yeah...forgot to add that AFTER doing all this, we still came out with more draft picks, more first rounders AND more cap space than anybody else....
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Never forget that #19 this year is part of that "arrogant" "screw-up". The jury is still out on that trade. Just don't give it away chasing savior #22 or whatever.
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you are out of your mind.
Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
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Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
The only reason JM should start is if he is the best qb period. You don't start him for any other reason. I don't buy into some of these stories anymore. I see a good path to success the next season with the plan Pettine laid out of improving our defense into one of the best in the league. Whoever is qb will have the advantage of the Browns having one of the better O lines in the league. If the Manziel pick turns out to be a bust so be it, put it behind you and go forward, no need to fire anyone and tear down a foundation again over one mistake IMO. We know at least one of the reasons this club has not been successful since 99 has been for lack of continuity. I believe Haslam sees that. Pettine was one of the first HC in the league to get approval from the owner minutes after the last game of the season. Haslam has already shown his support for Farmer.
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season.....................or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick.
"They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
I never buy into these types of statements......how does Davis know this and why would Pettine lose his job for a screwed up pick??...
I think the Browns gave him a real chance already....and, unfortunately, he failed that chance.....so they are still waiting till they think he's ready for chance #2....
Bottom line....the way things have already gone with JFF, I dont think he will make or break this FO going forward......
Haslem has spoken several times and said repeatedly that Pettine and Farmer are safe. He wouldn't do this if they were on the hot seat......
plus, I cant believe he would fire anyone due to a single bad pick.....And if he does, then he better be ready to hire a new GM every year or so....
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One of the "outs" that E.D. used is that if they start him most of the season and he still fails then they can blame it all on the "other" things that were going on with him that no one knew about. But he was adamant that he had not really been given a real fair shot like all the other rookies QB's that played this past year. I have said all along that it was not a fair shot to give him 1+ games with a Mack-less O line when even our starter who had been doing well fell apart without Mack.
We have a very good Oline, but as we showed this year we are 1 player away from being clearly crappy. We were unable to "fix" the loss of Mack.
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One of the "outs" that E.D. used is that if they start him most of the season and he still fails then they can blame it all on the "other" things that were going on with him that no one knew about. But he was adamant that he had not really been given a real fair shot like all the other rookies QB's that played this past year. I have said all along that it was not a fair shot to give him 1+ games with a Mack-less O line when even our starter who had been doing well fell apart without Mack.
We have a very good Oline, but as we showed this year we are 1 player away from being clearly crappy. We were unable to "fix" the loss of Mack.
One of the "outs" that E.D. used is that if they start him most of the season and he still fails then they can blame it all on the "other" things that were going on with him that no one knew about. But he was adamant that he had not really been given a real fair shot like all the other rookies QB's that played this past year. I have said all along that it was not a fair shot to give him 1+ games with a Mack-less O line when even our starter who had been doing well fell apart without Mack.
We have a very good Oline, but as we showed this year we are 1 player away from being clearly crappy. We were unable to "fix" the loss of Mack.
Im not going down that whole "what was fair or not with Johnny" road again......
I guess if you think playing week 14 or 15 was "his chance"........
I think he got his chance starting week 1 of training camp and he had MORE than a fair and equal opportunity to earn the right to play.....and he blew it.....
So, no matter what, I just dont see anyone getting fired for his play at this point.....I think Haslem is smart enough to know who's really the screw up......
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Strong is one characterization... but look at what he threw in as a qualifier... "... as soon as they think he is ready." Duh! I can hear Pet now... "Yeah, we think Johnny is ready, but I'm still going to sit him."
Add that no one is getting fired over one pick... especially not one as uncertain as JM was... and stupid becomes a better descriptor. Staff's are fired over direction of the team as whole and team performance vs. expectations.
Sometimes air time just has to be filled.
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I'd fire Farmer before I'd fire Pettine.
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To answer the question posed in the title:
Off season, Farmer is under more pressure.
In season, it is Pettine.
Pretty simple, really.
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Farmer is under waaay more pressure at this point. At the end of it all... the GM always takes the knock for bad picks. But what's made his seat somehow even hotter is the idiotic transgression to text the sideline during a game. That's joker level... bush league... and his head should roll for that. There's probably a telling reason it's never been done before (GMs are usually savvy guys) and it *hints* something about Ray that he was the first and only to ever do it.
It takes a lot of faith to keep Ray Farmer in the GM seat; it took a ton of faith to put him there to begin with.
The bright side is, the Ray Farmer story could one day be special for a good reason (possibly) if Jimmy lets him get his lumps in at GM. Right now, thus far, the Ray Farmer story is *special* for a bad reason, as though he were dense. The dude is 40, very very young for a GM.... he should get better, but the leash can't afford to be real long from here. A savvy draft in 2015 is all he needs....
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For the record.... Johnny was just like Indians SS/2B prospect Brandon Phillips. Way over-confident... not humbled enough by their age.
Brandon Phillips had MLB All-Star fielding skills but his bat needed developed. His attitude was such a distraction in the minors that he was put in "The Show/The MLB" and hit at the Mendoza Line (.200) for a season to humble him.
Mike Pettine saw Johnny's poor commitment & didn't start him until he faced the toughest Ds on the schedule: CIN, @CAR, @BAL (got hurt in CAR). This may have been for a good reason... and it seems to have worked.
Johnny voluntarily entered Recovery, seeking to resolve his belief system. It worked. (at least to the first degree)
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Farmer is under waaay more pressure at this point. At the end of it all... the GM always takes the knock for bad picks. But what's made his seat somehow even hotter is the idiotic transgression to text the sideline during a game. That's joker level... bush league... and his head should roll for that. There's probably a telling reason it's never been done before (GMs are usually savvy guys) and it *hints* something about Ray that he was the first and only to ever do it.
It takes a lot of faith to keep Ray Farmer in the GM seat; it took a ton of faith to put him there to begin with.
The bright side is, the Ray Farmer story could one day be special for a good reason (possibly) if Jimmy lets him get his lumps in at GM. Right now, thus far, the Ray Farmer story is *special* for a bad reason, as though he were dense. The dude is 40, very very young for a GM.... he should get better, but the leash can't afford to be real long from here. A savvy draft in 2015 is all he needs....
But what's made his seat somehow even hotter is the idiotic transgression to text the sideline during a game........ There's probably a telling reason it's never been done before (GMs are usually savvy guys) and it *hints* something about Ray that he was the first and only to ever do it.
Thats an assumption....."that it's never been done before"......
It's just as possible that it happens all the time and the real "first" is that our OC broke code and cried to a reporter about it.....
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Philips went on to become a multi-time MLB All-Star (albeit for the Reds, not the Indians)....
and likewise, Johnny's future may be more than we could foresee after 6 Quarters in 2014.
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Look, Mudfly from Painesville...
The fact remains that the transgression occurred. And it's a gross one.
I'm not calling for his head, but I would have a right to... a smoking gun reason to.
There's a logic you employed that is really fucked up. Recognize that.
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