Resign Sheard and pay Taylor
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Another thing to consider in this is that the FA defensive tackle market is pretty impressive this year. Rubin had a pretty disappointing year, I wouldn't mind letting him go and either drafting a DT or picking up one in FA.
I'm not crazy about Taylor but as I understand his salary is full counted against the cap even if we cut him.
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Another thing to consider in this is that the FA defensive tackle market is pretty impressive this year. Rubin had a pretty disappointing year, I wouldn't mind letting him go and either drafting a DT or picking up one in FA.
I'm not crazy about Taylor but as I understand his salary is full counted against the cap even if we cut him.
Another thing to consider in this is that the FA defensive tackle market is pretty impressive this year. Rubin had a pretty disappointing year, I wouldn't mind letting him go and either drafting a DT or picking up one in FA.
I'm not crazy about Taylor but as I understand his salary is full counted against the cap even if we cut him.
Of ESPN/Polian's top rated FA DTs.....four of them come from the Lions:
1. Suh Lions
2. Terence Knighton Denver
3. Jared Odrick Miami
4. Terrell McClain Dallas
5. CJ Mosley Lions
6. Alan Branch, Pats
7. Dwan Edwards Panthers
8. Nick Fairly Lions
9. Andre Fluellen Lions
10. Kevin Vickers KC
Polian actually ranked Sion Fua ahead of Rubin. Not so sure about that.
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With the exveption of suh...we should really make some offers to players on that list. Phil needs a running mate. We cant fold on the middle if he gets hurt again
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Another thing to consider in this is that the FA defensive tackle market is pretty impressive this year. Rubin had a pretty disappointing year, I wouldn't mind letting him go and either drafting a DT or picking up one in FA.
I'm not crazy about Taylor but as I understand his salary is full counted against the cap even if we cut him.
Of ESPN/Polian's top rated FA DTs.....four of them come from the Lions:
1. Suh Lions
2. Terence Knighton Denver
3. Jared Odrick Miami
4. Terrell McClain Dallas
5. CJ Mosley Lions
6. Alan Branch, Pats
7. Dwan Edwards Panthers
8. Nick Fairly Lions
9. Andre Fluellen Lions
10. Kevin Vickers KC
Polian actually ranked Sion Fua ahead of Rubin. Not so sure about that.
Of ESPN/Polian's top rated FA DTs.....four of them come from the Lions:
1. Suh Lions
2. Terence Knighton Denver
3. Jared Odrick Miami
4. Terrell McClain Dallas
5. CJ Mosley Lions
6. Alan Branch, Pats
7. Dwan Edwards Panthers
8. Nick Fairly Lions
9. Andre Fluellen Lions
10. Kevin Vickers KC
Polian actually ranked Sion Fua ahead of Rubin. Not so sure about that.
Surprised Wilfork isn't on that list but I suppose age is getting to him. The top 4 of that list are very good though-Knighton would be a solid FA pickup but I'm not sure what his price tag is going to be.
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That list was probably made before wilfork came free
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Polian is a tard. Rubin is a good space eater but isn't someone I want to over pay. He offers nothing in the pass rush so we should be able to find a young hungry guy to fill his role.
I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
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Polian is a tard. Rubin is a good space eater but isn't someone I want to over pay. He offers nothing in the pass rush so we should be able to find a young hungry guy to fill his role.
I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
Polian is a tard. Rubin is a good space eater but isn't someone I want to over pay. He offers nothing in the pass rush so we should be able to find a young hungry guy to fill his role.
I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
I think we're good at the 5 tech, imo, with the Bryant's.
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Incorrect.
Phil Taylor hasn't just been injured.. he SUCKS. He is literally a gigantic first-round bust.. and that trade down from Julio Jones is looking foolish.
Sheard, just like Cameron, refused to talk to the Browns FO.
We do need to draft DL.. because we're losing Taylor, Sheard, and Rubin at a minimum.
When we had Phil Taylor for the Thursday night game, the Bungles had no answer, they couldn't run cause of the beast in the middle and they couldn't pass cause Dalton is ass cheeks, and bam, Brownies 24 Bungles 3
When we had Phil Taylor for the Thursday night game, the Bungles had no answer, they couldn't run cause of the beast in the middle and they couldn't pass cause Dalton is ass cheeks, and bam, Brownies 24 Bungles 3
100% agree with this. I was at that game and seen first hand just how much of a disruption big phil was to that offense. Wasnt anywhere close to 100% and every time i saw him he was fired up and talkin shit and smashing someone. I remember thinking to myself what a force he could of been last year of he woulda stayed healthy.
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It surprises me how many players Browns fans want to keep. This team has barely won any games with these players yet every time one leaves or looks to be leaving, the fans are angry about it.
Your past girlfriends haven't won any awards but I bet you were pretty pissed when they left you.
Same thing here. They may be ugly bitches, but they are our ugly bitches.
Your past girlfriends haven't won any awards but I bet you were pretty pissed when they left you.
Same thing here. They may be ugly bitches, but they are our ugly bitches.
Try to keep in mind that just 2 seasons ago our defense was top 8 for 15 weeks, and top 11 after the season. I know that doesn't mean much, but players like Sheard, and Taylor helped us get there.
Taylor due to injuries may come at a cheaper price also.
Personally I believe in the old adage, if you don't have a replacement, then maybe we shouldn't cut. I know there are other reasons players are cut, but following this simple rule can only help us.
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With the exveption of suh...we should really make some offers to players on that list. Phil needs a running mate. We cant fold on the middle if he gets hurt again
With the exveption of suh...we should really make some offers to players on that list. Phil needs a running mate. We cant fold on the middle if he gets hurt again
We still have Billly Winn and The Sausage King (John Hughes) no? Do you not consider them Phil's running mates?
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Polian is a tard. Rubin is a good space eater but isn't someone I want to over pay. He offers nothing in the pass rush so we should be able to find a young hungry guy to fill his role.
I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
I agree that Taylor and Hughes looked good(our 2 best DL, actually), though they are our DE's....not NT......(personally, I like putting Taylor back at NT)
I think we're good at the 5 tech, imo, with the Bryant's.
Hmmm.....not sure Im there yet....AB showed a little flash in preseason, but Im not ready to anoint him yet....and Desmond really struggled and was one of our main issues with stopping the run.....yeah, he got a few sacks, but thats about it.....personally, Im hoping AB steps up and takes his job....coaches should know if this is likely or not.....
100% agree with this. I was at that game and seen first hand just how much of a disruption big phil was to that offense. Wasnt anywhere close to 100% and every time i saw him he was fired up and talkin shit and smashing someone. I remember thinking to myself what a force he could of been last year of he woulda stayed healthy.
I think he played great too.....no problems with what he's brought to our run D.....
I will say he was THE ONE who failed the preseason conditioning drills.....so, hearing he showed up out of shape, then spent the season on the injury list, just makes you wonder......
We still have Billly Winn and The Sausage King (John Hughes) no? Do you not consider them Phil's running mates?
Billy Winn?......eh.....very replaceable
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Your choice of the following, Mud:
Leave my Billy alone!
or
Don't you go disrespectin' my Billy!
I'm in tia's camp, Billy needs to slim back down a tad. I thought he was much more effective as a 290-ish DE for Horton than a 305-ish DE for Pet/ O'Neal. The added weight seemed to rob him of the angle-producing quicks his motor churned out two years ago.
Do agree with you on Phil tho. I love him head up on the Center.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For some reason we have this idea engraved in stone that our NT has to be a 350lb, 2 gap, 0 tech only monster.
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With the exveption of suh...we should really make some offers to players on that list. Phil needs a running mate. We cant fold on the middle if he gets hurt again
We still have Billly Winn and The Sausage King (John Hughes) no? Do you not consider them Phil's running mates?
We still have Billly Winn and The Sausage King (John Hughes) no? Do you not consider them Phil's running mates?
well Winn to me is a DL, not a NT. He can play NT but he's not the anchor Phil is. Hughes is for sure, but he doesn't compare to those guys on the list. Don't think you can argue that Wilfork and Taylor are more of the same cut.
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I think we're ok at nose tackle with Phil Taylor and John Hughes. We need to focus on getting another versatile DE to solidify our front 7
I agree that Taylor and Hughes looked good(our 2 best DL, actually), though they are our DE's....not NT......(personally, I like putting Taylor back at NT)
I think we're good at the 5 tech, imo, with the Bryant's.
Hmmm.....not sure Im there yet....AB showed a little flash in preseason, but Im not ready to anoint him yet....and Desmond really struggled and was one of our main issues with stopping the run.....yeah, he got a few sacks, but thats about it.....personally, Im hoping AB steps up and takes his job....coaches should know if this is likely or not.....
100% agree with this. I was at that game and seen first hand just how much of a disruption big phil was to that offense. Wasnt anywhere close to 100% and every time i saw him he was fired up and talkin shit and smashing someone. I remember thinking to myself what a force he could of been last year of he woulda stayed healthy.
I think he played great too.....no problems with what he's brought to our run D.....
I will say he was THE ONE who failed the preseason conditioning drills.....so, hearing he showed up out of shape, then spent the season on the injury list, just makes you wonder......
We still have Billly Winn and The Sausage King (John Hughes) no? Do you not consider them Phil's running mates?
Billy Winn?......eh.....very replaceable
I agree that Taylor and Hughes looked good(our 2 best DL, actually), though they are our DE's....not NT......(personally, I like putting Taylor back at NT)
Hmmm.....not sure Im there yet....AB showed a little flash in preseason, but Im not ready to anoint him yet....and Desmond really struggled and was one of our main issues with stopping the run.....yeah, he got a few sacks, but thats about it.....personally, Im hoping AB steps up and takes his job....coaches should know if this is likely or not.....
AB is more a prototype 4-3 end for sure, i'm very surprised how good he is playing 5 tech. Desmond is more the proto 5 tech than AB. Between them though I do think we're straight on the end....and I'll stay with that sentiment until Bosa declares
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Your choice of the following, Mud:
Leave my Billy alone!
or
Don't you go disrespectin' my Billy!
I'm in tia's camp, Billy needs to slim back down a tad. I thought he was much more effective as a 290-ish DE for Horton than a 305-ish DE for Pet/ O'Neal. The added weight seemed to rob him of the angle-producing quicks his motor churned out two years ago.
Do agree with you on Phil tho. I love him head up on the Center.
Your choice of the following, Mud:
Leave my Billy alone!
or
Don't you go disrespectin' my Billy!
I like Billy and his motor.....and was a good find for where we picked him.....can leap an OL in a single bound, but.....
For some reason we have this idea engraved in stone that our NT has to be a 350lb, 2 gap, 0 tech only monster.
Pettine likes em fat.....wants 350 lbs in the middle and 300+ on the ends.......I love Pettine, but our D seems like a classic example of trying to fit the players to a system.....using a 4-3 roster, to play a 3-4 D......
Id prefer Sheard & the Bryant(s) at the ends, with Hughes/Winn/Taylor at inside DT's.......
I wish Pettine would listen to me....just once....
AB is more a prototype 4-3 end for sure, i'm very surprised how good he is playing 5 tech. Desmond is more the proto 5 tech than AB. Between them though I do think we're straight on the end....and I'll stay with that sentiment until Bosa declares
I will say you and I are on the same page with the 4-3 vs 3-4 talent thing.....our players dont really fit the scheme that well....but Im curious, because I know you've been having fits all year about how terrible our run D was.....yet, you're happy with Bryant in there???
Does everyone(and not you Clevefan, cause I know you're thinking it's more on the LB's) think it's all on NT only?......
So.....my question is IF our D line was so bad(and it was)......was it injury or talent?.....or both? Cause if it was injury, then it isn't the HUGE need everyone claims it is. We just get healthy and play with the guys we have.......
But if it's talent, then some of them have to go......right?.......so which ones should it be?....Rubin? Winn? Bryant? Robertson? Kruger?
With all that said, Im pretty much convinced most of our DL problems were injuries, combined with a new system, just creating a clusterfuk up front.....and the panic to draft "run stoppers" is just that......panic......
As an aside & according to PFF, our 4 worst run stoppers were Rubin, D. Bryant, Fua & Winn......so, wouldn't it make sense that these guys are the ones on the bubble????
And our #1 rated player against the run was?......Jabaal Sheard....(who's about to get cut loose)(maybe?)
-
Your choice of the following, Mud:
Leave my Billy alone!
or
Don't you go disrespectin' my Billy!
I like Billy and his motor.....and was a good find for where we picked him.....can leap an OL in a single bound, but.....
For some reason we have this idea engraved in stone that our NT has to be a 350lb, 2 gap, 0 tech only monster.
Pettine likes em fat.....wants 350 lbs in the middle and 300+ on the ends.......I love Pettine, but our D seems like a classic example of trying to fit the players to a system.....using a 4-3 roster, to play a 3-4 D......
Id prefer Sheard & the Bryant(s) at the ends, with Hughes/Winn/Taylor at inside DT's.......
I wish Pettine would listen to me....just once....
AB is more a prototype 4-3 end for sure, i'm very surprised how good he is playing 5 tech. Desmond is more the proto 5 tech than AB. Between them though I do think we're straight on the end....and I'll stay with that sentiment until Bosa declares
I will say you and I are on the same page with the 4-3 vs 3-4 talent thing.....our players dont really fit the scheme that well....but Im curious, because I know you've been having fits all year about how terrible our run D was.....yet, you're happy with Bryant in there???
Does everyone(and not you Clevefan, cause I know you're thinking it's more on the LB's) think it's all on NT only?......
So.....my question is IF our D line was so bad(and it was)......was it injury or talent?.....or both? Cause if it was injury, then it isn't the HUGE need everyone claims it is. We just get healthy and play with the guys we have.......
But if it's talent, then some of them have to go......right?.......so which ones should it be?....Rubin? Winn? Bryant? Robertson? Kruger?
With all that said, Im pretty much convinced most of our DL problems were injuries, combined with a new system, just creating a clusterfuk up front.....and the panic to draft "run stoppers" is just that......panic......
As an aside & according to PFF, our 4 worst run stoppers were Rubin, D. Bryant, Fua & Winn......so, wouldn't it make sense that these guys are the ones on the bubble????
And our #1 rated player against the run was?......Jabaal Sheard....(who's about to get cut loose)(maybe?)
I like Billy and his motor.....and was a good find for where we picked him.....can leap an OL in a single bound, but.....
Pettine likes em fat.....wants 350 lbs in the middle and 300+ on the ends.......I love Pettine, but our D seems like a classic example of trying to fit the players to a system.....using a 4-3 roster, to play a 3-4 D......
Id prefer Sheard & the Bryant(s) at the ends, with Hughes/Winn/Taylor at inside DT's.......
I wish Pettine would listen to me....just once....
I will say you and I are on the same page with the 4-3 vs 3-4 talent thing.....our players dont really fit the scheme that well....but Im curious, because I know you've been having fits all year about how terrible our run D was.....yet, you're happy with Bryant in there???
Does everyone(and not you Clevefan, cause I know you're thinking it's more on the LB's) think it's all on NT only?......
So.....my question is IF our D line was so bad(and it was)......was it injury or talent?.....or both? Cause if it was injury, then it isn't the HUGE need everyone claims it is. We just get healthy and play with the guys we have.......
But if it's talent, then some of them have to go......right?.......so which ones should it be?....Rubin? Winn? Bryant? Robertson? Kruger?
With all that said, Im pretty much convinced most of our DL problems were injuries, combined with a new system, just creating a clusterfuk up front.....and the panic to draft "run stoppers" is just that......panic......
As an aside & according to PFF, our 4 worst run stoppers were Rubin, D. Bryant, Fua & Winn......so, wouldn't it make sense that these guys are the ones on the bubble????
And our #1 rated player against the run was?......Jabaal Sheard....(who's about to get cut loose)(maybe?)
Good enough on Billy... apology accepted.
I'd been on the 4-3 bandwagon since Horton dragged us back to the 3-4. However, I gave up the cause last year under Pet. Truth is I look at what he does out of his base D and see a 4-3 with a LE (Krugs) in a two-point.
On run-stop... I think it's depth and talent level. There are two paths to upgrading depth:
- add bench talent to back up starters; and
- add starting talent to move former starter(s) to the bench creating.
Rx: Add quality depth... especially to the interior of the line.
On the other hand the latter is my preferred route for the D-line. Multiple injuries required multiple grouping changes in the rotation with all producing roughly the same, substandard results.
Rx: Add depth by upgrading starters.
Anyway... that's the way Dr. T sees it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I like Billy and his motor.....and was a good find for where we picked him.....can leap an OL in a single bound, but.....
Pettine likes em fat.....wants 350 lbs in the middle and 300+ on the ends.......I love Pettine, but our D seems like a classic example of trying to fit the players to a system.....using a 4-3 roster, to play a 3-4 D......
Id prefer Sheard & the Bryant(s) at the ends, with Hughes/Winn/Taylor at inside DT's.......
I wish Pettine would listen to me....just once....
I will say you and I are on the same page with the 4-3 vs 3-4 talent thing.....our players dont really fit the scheme that well....but Im curious, because I know you've been having fits all year about how terrible our run D was.....yet, you're happy with Bryant in there???
Does everyone(and not you Clevefan, cause I know you're thinking it's more on the LB's) think it's all on NT only?......
So.....my question is IF our D line was so bad(and it was)......was it injury or talent?.....or both? Cause if it was injury, then it isn't the HUGE need everyone claims it is. We just get healthy and play with the guys we have.......
But if it's talent, then some of them have to go......right?.......so which ones should it be?....Rubin? Winn? Bryant? Robertson? Kruger?
With all that said, Im pretty much convinced most of our DL problems were injuries, combined with a new system, just creating a clusterfuk up front.....and the panic to draft "run stoppers" is just that......panic......
As an aside & according to PFF, our 4 worst run stoppers were Rubin, D. Bryant, Fua & Winn......so, wouldn't it make sense that these guys are the ones on the bubble????
And our #1 rated player against the run was?......Jabaal Sheard....(who's about to get cut loose)(maybe?)
Good enough on Billy... apology accepted.
I'd been on the 4-3 bandwagon since Horton dragged us back to the 3-4. However, I gave up the cause last year under Pet. Truth is I look at what he does out of his base D and see a 4-3 with a LE (Krugs) in a two-point.
On run-stop... I think it's depth and talent level. There are two paths to upgrading depth:
- add bench talent to back up starters; and
- add starting talent to move former starter(s) to the bench creating.
Rx: Add quality depth... especially to the interior of the line.
On the other hand the latter is my preferred route for the D-line. Multiple injuries required multiple grouping changes in the rotation with all producing roughly the same, substandard results.
Rx: Add depth by upgrading starters.
Anyway... that's the way Dr. T sees it.
On the other hand the latter is my preferred route for the D-line. Multiple injuries required multiple grouping changes in the rotation with all producing roughly the same, substandard results.
Rx: Add depth by upgrading starters.Anyway... that's the way Dr. T sees it.
Which is fine with me......but that pushes the back ups off the roster and, at end, that means Billy(or one of the Bryants).....which takes me back to my original "but"....
So, if we chop an end....who?.....if not Billy....
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