Browns vs. Steelers offensive line
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You are so delusional.
Except, naturally, all my delusions are factual.
You do spew and you are boring and maybe he does have premium access but there is plenty of free information on the site.
If it is so readily available....then YOU do it. YOU research the numbers. I readily admit that I ask for help from others to provide information...because I spend enough time doing this as it is.
I will rely on Mud's resources. If YOU want to refute them, then YOU do the research.
Mince meat out of what delusions? The steelers are better than the browns? Bell is possibly the best HB in the NFL. Brown is top 5 but arguably the best in the league. He certainly was the best last season.
Except of course when it came to rushing...the Browns 2 rookies were just as productive...I guess our two kids must be top 5 if you combine them.
Oops...see that is as statistic you didn't like and ignored. More fool you.
The areas of team strength for the browns aren't drastically better if better at all than the steelers? 1st vs 4th.
Hello, McFly....is anybody home? THAT is the question I asked.
Do you have a problem with the answer?
The Steelers line before the season was rated higher than the browns line.
Now you are delusional.... We are talking offensive line on this thread. You can't even keep straight what unit you are talking about. The Steelers offensive line vastly overachieved....and could still not rate as good as the Browns Ol.
I'm sure its more evident now and heyward is rated better than any dlineman on your roster.
Again....are you keeping yourself straight? We can switch to defensive line....but there is a total separate thread for that.
And NOTHING is evident....at all about Heyward.....
But if you want to do the research and present accurate, neutral evidence of your contention....please feel free.
Again.....that is one of the reason I have asked these questions....to see what neutral parties say about these things. I never claimed I had all the answers.
In other words, prove your point.
The facts show the browns aren't better than the steelers now or 5 years from now.
OK, remind me of the score of the last time the two teams played?
(Insert Jack Nicholson quote herein)
You are so delusional.
Except, naturally, all my delusions are factual.
You do spew and you are boring and maybe he does have premium access but there is plenty of free information on the site.
If it is so readily available....then YOU do it. YOU research the numbers. I readily admit that I ask for help from others to provide information...because I spend enough time doing this as it is.
I will rely on Mud's resources. If YOU want to refute them, then YOU do the research.
Mince meat out of what delusions? The steelers are better than the browns? Bell is possibly the best HB in the NFL. Brown is top 5 but arguably the best in the league. He certainly was the best last season.
Except of course when it came to rushing...the Browns 2 rookies were just as productive...I guess our two kids must be top 5 if you combine them.
Oops...see that is as statistic you didn't like and ignored. More fool you.
The areas of team strength for the browns aren't drastically better if better at all than the steelers? 1st vs 4th.
Hello, McFly....is anybody home? THAT is the question I asked.
Do you have a problem with the answer?
The Steelers line before the season was rated higher than the browns line.
Now you are delusional.... We are talking offensive line on this thread. You can't even keep straight what unit you are talking about. The Steelers offensive line vastly overachieved....and could still not rate as good as the Browns Ol.
I'm sure its more evident now and heyward is rated better than any dlineman on your roster.
Again....are you keeping yourself straight? We can switch to defensive line....but there is a total separate thread for that.
And NOTHING is evident....at all about Heyward.....
But if you want to do the research and present accurate, neutral evidence of your contention....please feel free.
Again.....that is one of the reason I have asked these questions....to see what neutral parties say about these things. I never claimed I had all the answers.
In other words, prove your point.
The facts show the browns aren't better than the steelers now or 5 years from now.
OK, remind me of the score of the last time the two teams played?
(Insert Jack Nicholson quote herein)
I meant to indicate dline in my post but did not, my mistake. I have no interest in going round and round in every thread you start. Heyward was rated the best if just comparing steelers/browns by PFF. I don't feel like linking it. You can do that yourself. You never back anything up with facts. The most factual thing to come from any of these threads have been posts from other people using PFF ranking. You just spew. I'm as tired of going round and round with you as the rest of the board is reading it. My problem is I have a hard time ignoring flat out ignorance. Isn't it funny that I only seem to have to go round and round with you? I don't have that problem with anyone else. Your like the damn wizard from the wizard of oz.
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You are so delusional.
Except, naturally, all my delusions are factual.
You do spew and you are boring and maybe he does have premium access but there is plenty of free information on the site.
If it is so readily available....then YOU do it. YOU research the numbers. I readily admit that I ask for help from others to provide information...because I spend enough time doing this as it is.
I will rely on Mud's resources. If YOU want to refute them, then YOU do the research.
Mince meat out of what delusions? The steelers are better than the browns? Bell is possibly the best HB in the NFL. Brown is top 5 but arguably the best in the league. He certainly was the best last season.
Except of course when it came to rushing...the Browns 2 rookies were just as productive...I guess our two kids must be top 5 if you combine them.
Oops...see that is as statistic you didn't like and ignored. More fool you.
The areas of team strength for the browns aren't drastically better if better at all than the steelers? 1st vs 4th.
Hello, McFly....is anybody home? THAT is the question I asked.
Do you have a problem with the answer?
The Steelers line before the season was rated higher than the browns line.
Now you are delusional.... We are talking offensive line on this thread. You can't even keep straight what unit you are talking about. The Steelers offensive line vastly overachieved....and could still not rate as good as the Browns Ol.
I'm sure its more evident now and heyward is rated better than any dlineman on your roster.
Again....are you keeping yourself straight? We can switch to defensive line....but there is a total separate thread for that.
And NOTHING is evident....at all about Heyward.....
But if you want to do the research and present accurate, neutral evidence of your contention....please feel free.
Again.....that is one of the reason I have asked these questions....to see what neutral parties say about these things. I never claimed I had all the answers.
In other words, prove your point.
The facts show the browns aren't better than the steelers now or 5 years from now.
OK, remind me of the score of the last time the two teams played?
(Insert Jack Nicholson quote herein)
I meant to indicate dline in my post but did not, my mistake. I have no interest in going round and round in every thread you start. Heyward was rated the best if just comparing steelers/browns by PFF. I don't feel like linking it. You can do that yourself. You never back anything up with facts. The most factual thing to come from any of these threads have been posts from other people using PFF ranking. You just spew. I'm as tired of going round and round with you as the rest of the board is reading it. My problem is I have a hard time ignoring flat out ignorance. Isn't it funny that I only seem to have to go round and round with you? I don't have that problem with anyone else. Your like the damn wizard from the wizard of oz.
I meant to indicate dline in my post but did not, my mistake. I have no interest in going round and round in every thread you start.
Then why are you posting in every one? Responding to my every statement?
Heyward was rated the best if just comparing steelers/browns by PFF. I don't feel like linking it. You can do that yourself.
No, I don't trust what you say.....you have been proven factually wrong so many times. Sorry, I don't trust your word. If you want to claim that Heyward rated the best DL on the two team....show the proof.
You never back anything up with facts.
Hell, not only do I back up my stuff with facts.....I back up what other people have stated.
The most factual thing to come from any of these threads have been posts from other people using PFF ranking. You just spew.
Yea, I spewed the fact that the Browns two rookie RBs were just as productive at running the ball as Bell was.....And I even spewed up facts backing you up that he was a much bigger part of the passing game than our RBs were.
Why am I doing your work for you....when you want to argue black and white facts....even when they are in your favor.
You on the other hand have done nothing except to admit that you are too lazy to back up your points.
I'm as tired of going round and round with you as the rest of the board is reading it. My problem is I have a hard time ignoring flat out ignorance.
You certainly do have a problem ignoring ignorance, primarily your own.
Isn't it funny that I only seem to have to go round and round with you? I don't have that problem with anyone else.
You don't even have a problem with me.....Your problem is with yourself. You chase your tail like a dog in heat.
I have placed on here three threads. One asking for a comparison of the Browns and Steelers linebacking corps. One asking for a comparison of the Browns and Steelers Offensive Line, and one asking for comparison of the Browns and Steelers defensive line. Between myself, and Mudfly and Tour and others we have placed on these board data and information relevent to the purpose of these threads.
Yet, every time one of us presents a fact that shows that the Browns have a talent or statistical advantage in one of these area...your brain explodes into a quagmire of rage, instability and myopia such that you would have thought someone had killed one of your kids. And like I said, you can't even accept data that is in your favor....or accept an acquiescence of facts that are in your favor. I mean, you are like psychotic about it.
Your like the damn wizard from the wizard of oz.
More Merlin.
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Vag and Gip always matching wits!
Doesn't get any better than that on these boards!
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Lol. I'm starting to just skim thru them when Gip gets him worked up. But anyway to the point of these threads : Browns OL and secondary better than Steelers. Front seven close to a wash, and skill players undoubtably better in PIT. And that's just the way it is folks (mic drops)Stuart said:
Vag and Gip always matching wits!
Doesn't get any better than that on these boards!
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Lol. I'm starting to just skim thru them when Gip gets him worked up. But anyway to the point of these threads : Browns OL and secondary better than Steelers. Front seven close to a wash, and skill players undoubtably better in PIT. And that's just the way it is folks (mic drops)Stuart said:
Vag and Gip always matching wits!
Doesn't get any better than that on these boards!
Lol. I'm starting to just skim thru them when Gip gets him worked up. But anyway to the point of these threads : Browns OL and secondary better than Steelers. Front seven close to a wash, and skill players undoubtably better in PIT. And that's just the way it is folks (mic drops)
I'd skim through them too if I were you.
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@douche-nozzle said:
And how does all of this "grading out" work for the Browns? The Browns are still the Browns ad no matter how much whipped cream you put on a turd it's still a turd. You can talk about how nice the paint job is, how highly the suspension system is rated, the reaction times of the driver, how the aerodynamics are the rated highly, how the tires are said to be better than those used by others, but when the car finishes last every single race (AFCN) you are just making a fool of yourself analysing the peices-parts.
This is a Browns discussion board, so we discuss the Browns. Simple really.
Analyzing the different pieces is a way to mark progress and see how we stack up against the competition. Simple again.
So, while you call us foolish for discussing our own team on our own board and comparing them to our main rival......
Id think the real fool is the one who hangs at the others board debating all the foolish things we discuss.....
I may be a fool, but at least I can spell....pIEces....analyZing.....
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@douche-nozzle said:
I don't fault you for discussing the Browns. Just that you discuss the same crap every year in an effort to make yourselves beleive the Browns are something they are not. If you really want to mark progress, discuss how the Browns should build consistancy and depth and avoid trying to draft magic in a bottle. But history will most likely repeat itself when it comes to the Browns and many of their fans and media.
How do you mark progress by discussing the future?......makes no sense......
You can only mark progress by measuring the distance traveled...or distance to go.....
And, during the off season, thats done by grading players and their performance.....and then comparing that performance to the other teams we have to beat.....(which is exactly what we are doing)
If you read, you'll see we are building consistency(note the E at the end there) and, now, are attempting to measure that progress.....see how that works?
Oh, and here's a simple rule I learned in kindergarten.....I before E, except after C.....
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well, probably should cut douche some slack, he could be in pre-K.....
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Not sure what you're trying to get at Douche? We're talking about how Browns players have played, where there are weaknesses, how the units compare against rivals.
Consistency and depth? We've brought in Hartline and Bowe who both provide those things in abundance, rather than relying on Gordon for the 'magic in a bottle' you love talking about.
We've spoken about how the browns OL is top class, but lacks depth, something to be addressed in the draft, which will aid consistency.
We've looked at the LB corps as well, which has some consistency, but lacks depth behind the starters.
Our secondary has both those things in spades.
Our DL has been spoken about at great length, which has depth, but not consistency with all the injuries.
RB/HB/TE is pretty solid now, maybe missing a FB and blow-the-top-off TE but we could go in to the season as it is and be ok.
What exactly would you like to read? The only position of interest I haven't mentioned is QB, which has been done to death on this and every browns board in the world. Under Farmer/Pettine the Browns *have* been trying to build consistency and depth, and the signings that have been made have reflected that, not spending big bucks on flashy players but adding dependable players at key positions.
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Stuart said:
Vag and Gip always matching wits!
Doesn't get any better than that on these boards!
Wits has nothing to do with it. (you and I both know he can't match wits with me).
And it wasn't even me that he was attempting to "match wits with"....it was thenew23.
It was pure straight football statistics that were being matched. thenew said the Browns run game was as productive as the Steelers. Vag had a coronary over that and disputed it.
Yet I showed the stats that proved that thenew was right. When I compiled those stats....I fully expected that they would prove the Vag right.....but they didn't. But even when the stats were shown and supported thenew.....Vag tried to do another tap dance and say "homina homina homina....well....uh...duh....I am just talking about Bell.....that he is better than anyone of your runners". Except, of course, that was not thenew's contention.
Funny that he didn't argue with me when I showed how much better the Steeler's passing game was. I mean, he goes into epileptic siezure over one set of black and white stats...but not over another. Why was that?
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@douche-nozzle said:
And how does all of this "grading out" work for the Browns? The Browns are still the Browns ad no matter how much whipped cream you put on a turd it's still a turd. You can talk about how nice the paint job is, how highly the suspension system is rated, the reaction times of the driver, how the aerodynamics are the rated highly, how the tires are said to be better than those used by others, but when the car finishes last every single race (AFCN) you are just making a fool of yourself analysing the peices-parts.
It says that we need a better quarterback.....and more organizational stability.
again....what is it about all that you don't comprehend?
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@douche-nozzle said:
Distance traveled? Then the Browns are exactly where they were when they joined the league in 1999. Except they have built an even more reliable habit of losing big down the stretch. I'm not trying to antagonize you, just pointing out what the rest of the world knows. The Browns fail every year and they fail in virtually the same way. Browns fans and media demand the same thing every year (instant success) and every year it backfires on them. Wash, rinse, repeat.
First, the Browns joined the league in 1950.....and won the championship....so, no, they are not where they are when they joined the league.
Second, you are right....they have this habit of losing down the stretch.
If you have an answer as to why that is....and I don't mean your stupid demeaning shit, but a real answer, we are all ears.
And, yes, Browns fans demand instant success every year. What else would you have us do.....be patient? (and where do you get the idea that we are not patient.)
Hell, Browns fans have more enthusiasm for their losing team than yinzers have for a successful team.
I mean, we are not the ones the Commissioner had to question over our no show rate:
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@douche-nozzle said:
The magic in a bottle I referred to is drafting supposed studs in the first round when there is not a solid team for them to play on. The magic in a bottle I referred to is picking sexy picks thinking it will make the difference when everyone (but the Browns and their fans) know that it doesn't work that way. Allow a coaching staff to stick around long enough to develop a scheme, a system, while building the core of a team on and off the field; and then go get the stud to make the difference.
Or.....just keep just keep doing what you've been doing for decades and expecting different results.
OK, so, what, you are saying that the Browns nor anyone else should not pick a QB in the first round?
If so, then why did the Steelers make the mistake of drafting BR in round one.
When he came into the league he was by no means considered a sure thing. If he was he would not have lasted until pick 11.
And don't tell me that you or your ilk knew that he would succeed. Hell, he could have turned out to have been no better than the QB picked after him: JP Losman.
You got lucky with your pick. Browns got unlucky. BR was no more touted coming out of college than Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden or certainly Johnny Football.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Distance traveled? Then the Browns are exactly where they were when they joined the league in 1999. Except they have built an even more reliable habit of losing big down the stretch. I'm not trying to antagonize you, just pointing out what the rest of the world knows. The Browns fail every year and they fail in virtually the same way. Browns fans and media demand the same thing every year (instant success) and every year it backfires on them. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Are you even capable of offering substance to a discussion?....You dont antagonize me, because Ive never seen you promote a solid football thought that even made me blink. Just typical Stooler fan type hyperbole.
You would actually need to offer smart and intimidating commentary for me to feel antagonized. That has never happened.
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@douche-nozzle said:
The magic in a bottle I referred to is drafting supposed studs in the first round when there is not a solid team for them to play on.
I just want to admire this gem for a bit...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@douche-nozzle said:
The magic in a bottle I referred to is drafting supposed studs in the first round when there is not a solid team for them to play on.
I just want to admire this gem for a bit...
I just want to admire this gem for a bit...
Yep, we should just give up drafting first rounders and hoping they make the team better. Just fill out the roster with a bunch of scrubs who are consistent.
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Yep, we should just give up drafting first rounders and hoping they make the team better. Just fill out the roster with a bunch of scrubs who are consistent.
Have the Browns had problems drafting guys in the first round? Yes.....and it is mostly the skill players that they have bombed on.
But, the fact is....everybody had these players ranked highly....so its not like the Browns greatly reached. Here is what we have:
2014
Mayock at NFL.com had JFF ranked as the #10 prospect, Gilbert at #23
CBS.com had JFF ranked #7, Gilbert #20
If you just reverse where these two were taken...it would be consistent with their preseason ranking.
2013
Mayock/NFL.com had Mingo ranked #10. CBS had him ranked #21
2012
Mayock had Richardon ranked #3, Weeden #35
CBS had Richardson at #4, Weeden at #44
Weeden seems the only true reach. That is what happens when you are desperate for a QB. Weeden had/has all the arm talent in the world....but as someone said, he had the pocket presence of a possum in headlights.
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Yep, we should just give up drafting first rounders and hoping they make the team better. Just fill out the roster with a bunch of scrubs who are consistent.
Have the Browns had problems drafting guys in the first round? Yes.....and it is mostly the skill players that they have bombed on.
But, the fact is....everybody had these players ranked highly....so its not like the Browns greatly reached. Here is what we have:
2014
Mayock at NFL.com had JFF ranked as the #10 prospect, Gilbert at #23
CBS.com had JFF ranked #7, Gilbert #20
If you just reverse where these two were taken...it would be consistent with their preseason ranking.
2013
Mayock/NFL.com had Mingo ranked #10. CBS had him ranked #21
2012
Mayock had Richardon ranked #3, Weeden #35
CBS had Richardson at #4, Weeden at #44
Weeden seems the only true reach. That is what happens when you are desperate for a QB. Weeden had/has all the arm talent in the world....but as someone said, he had the pocket presence of a possum in headlights.
Have the Browns had problems drafting guys in the first round? Yes.....and it is mostly the skill players that they have bombed on.
But, the fact is....everybody had these players ranked highly....so its not like the Browns greatly reached. Here is what we have:
2014
Mayock at NFL.com had JFF ranked as the #10 prospect, Gilbert at #23
CBS.com had JFF ranked #7, Gilbert #20
If you just reverse where these two were taken...it would be consistent with their preseason ranking.
2013
Mayock/NFL.com had Mingo ranked #10. CBS had him ranked #21
2012
Mayock had Richardon ranked #3, Weeden #35
CBS had Richardson at #4, Weeden at #44
Weeden seems the only true reach. That is what happens when you are desperate for a QB. Weeden had/has all the arm talent in the world....but as someone said, he had the pocket presence of a possum in headlights.
Do I need to point out to you when I'm being sarcastic?
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Have the Browns had problems drafting guys in the first round? Yes.....and it is mostly the skill players that they have bombed on.
But, the fact is....everybody had these players ranked highly....so its not like the Browns greatly reached. Here is what we have:
2014
Mayock at NFL.com had JFF ranked as the #10 prospect, Gilbert at #23
CBS.com had JFF ranked #7, Gilbert #20
If you just reverse where these two were taken...it would be consistent with their preseason ranking.
2013
Mayock/NFL.com had Mingo ranked #10. CBS had him ranked #21
2012
Mayock had Richardon ranked #3, Weeden #35
CBS had Richardson at #4, Weeden at #44
Weeden seems the only true reach. That is what happens when you are desperate for a QB. Weeden had/has all the arm talent in the world....but as someone said, he had the pocket presence of a possum in headlights.
Do I need to point out to you when I'm being sarcastic?
Do I need to point out to you when I'm being sarcastic?
No, I knew that. I just used your post as a jumping spot to show how the Browns didn't draft players that everyone else thought was "no good."
And to point out that there is a bit of serendipity to making these choices. Everyone had TR as the next "Beast Mode"....who could have predicted that he in fact would be "Least Mode" instead.
Steeler fans think they have a god given right to be good....but the fact is to a certain extent, they are just lucky. BR could have turned out like JP Losman instead of what he became.
I mean, look at this scouting report for Brady Quinn.....who some thought he could emulate that other Brady: Tom
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/419111
I mean, if that doesn't cause you to spew your coffee, what does?
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@douche-nozzle said:
Look, I understand that you guys can't conceive of anything but the quick fix or you wouldn't be drumming for the same crap that fails for your team every year. Drafting a stud QB to play in a FUBAR organization like the Browns has never worked and it never will. Why can't you see that by trading down out of the first round and get some quality talent at core positions for a couple years, coupled with allowing a coaching staff the time to gel, might be the only way the Browns can get out of the cellar? It's only been demonstrated countless times........but I know......you guys are the best fans and you know better
The point is, the Browns have not gotten that stud QB...even though they have tried. Had one of these guys turned out like we had hoped....the way BR turned out for you (instead of being the next Cade McNown) then things would be a lot different. Bad luck at drafting those QBs has been partially responsible for the instability. If Brady Quinn had actually been the next Tom Brady don't you think that Phil Savage may still be here?
And the other point here, my obtuse friend, is that very few if any here are advocating that the Browns go after another supposedly "stud" QB this year. And we certainly don't need to "trade down". We can, and should get "core players" at other positions at #12 and #19. They might even get a quality offensive skill player.....a Devante Parker/Maxx Williams. Or more help in the OL/DL/LB spots.
Have you actually been contemplating anything else that is said on here.....or are you too obsessed by the lint in your navel to look outside your own little world.
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