Ohio: The bandwagon state
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OK....but here is some reality:
Offensive Skill players:
QB: Ben Roethlisberger vs. Josh McCown
RB: Leveon Bell vs. Isaiah Crowell
TE: Heath Miller vs. Gary Barnridge
WR1: Antonio Brown vs. Dwayne Bowe
WR2. Markus Wheaton vs. Brian Hartline (though he may be displaced.
Irregardless (yes, I used it)....I don't see a position where the Steelers lose the comparison. Do you?
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Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
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Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
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Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
Well, Browns did lose some with moves by Sheard and Jordan Cameron.....have they made up for them?
Plus...I am having trouble seeing where the Browns were better at WR.
And I don't see where Steelers are better overall at DLine......if the Browns are healthy.
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Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
My opinions:
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
Heyward is probably the best individual....but I think the combo of Bryant/Huges is better than Heyward/Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
Browns.
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
Browns
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
Browns....until and unless Dupree really proves himself
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
Browns....until and unless Shazier proves himself
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
Steelers....until and unless Kirksey really proves himself
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Browns....Kruger in prime, Harrison over the hill, Jones has done nothing much in two years. Orchard could make QBs fall like apples off a tree.
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
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PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
Ok, thank you for digging that up. I would however love to see exactly how they rate the players. What are they measuring and what does a 33.5 rating mean vs a 21.7? You see, the problem I have with all of this is these ratings don't necessarily pass my eyeball test. One of the things I'm sure you'll agree is that our qb holds on to the ball longer than just about anyone I've ever seen (I have no proof, just my subjective observation). So the problem I have is if say Dave Decastro holds his block for 8 seconds and Ben moves around back and forth and is finally sacked by the guy Decastro is blocking because he ran right into him, do these rating account for things like that? Because if it's purely on sacks allowed I'm inclined to say that blocking for Ben is much different than blocking for just about anyone else. When I say eyeball test I mean I've literally seen that exact scenario play out many times.
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So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Zombo
Zombo said:
So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Next? 11-5 vs 7-9 Next.
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and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability....
His entire career he has been better...because he is better. There it is.
His entire career he has been better...because he is better. There it is.
Cleveland is absolutely loaded.
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Zombo said:
So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Next? 11-5 vs 7-9 Next.
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At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate.
Will you do that?
No, Mack is as good as there is at his position.
Z
Zombo said:
No, Mack is as good as there is at his position.
Z
Yes, Pouncey is better.
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Zombo said:
So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Next? 11-5 vs 7-9 Next.
31-10 next.
Zombo
Zombo said:
31-10 next.
Zombo
65-57 Next.
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Zombo said:
No, Mack is as good as there is at his position.
Z
Yes, Pouncey is better.
Yes, Pouncey is better.
Mack is better, and it's not even close, Bud.
He was absolutely dominating from the center position last year before his injury. Pouncey is solid, but not as good as Mack.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
31-10 next.
Zombo
65-57 Next.
65-57 Next.
8-6 Next.
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Next ...
How about the defensive backfield.
LCB: Joe Haden vs. Cortez Allen
SS: Donte Whitner vs. Shamarko Thomas
FS: Tashaun Gipson vs. Mike Mitchell
RCB: Tramon Williams vs. William Gay
I don't see a position where the Browns lose the comparison. Do any of you?
Next ...
How about the defensive backfield.
LCB: Joe Haden vs. Cortez Allen
SS: Donte Whitner vs. Shamarko Thomas
FS: Tashaun Gipson vs. Mike Mitchell
RCB: Tramon Williams vs. William Gay
I don't see a position where the Browns lose the comparison. Do any of you?
Browns win hands down.
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Yes, Pouncey is better.
Mack is better, and it's not even close, Bud.
He was absolutely dominating from the center position last year before his injury. Pouncey is solid, but not as good as Mack.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Mack is better, and it's not even close, Bud.
He was absolutely dominating from the center position last year before his injury. Pouncey is solid, but not as good as Mack.
Zombo
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll admit, I don't watch Mack every weekend. I watch Pouncey and he's a beast. He runs down the field like a fullback. He pulls. He's a fantastic athlete. I actually met him a few weeks ago at a Texas Roadhouse near my home. I got a picture of him with my 11 year old son. I'm 6' and around 275lbs. He towered over me and his hand was like a softball glove. I was impressed.
-
Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
I'm confused how the Browns could be rated higher at ILB and WR. Doesn't make sense. Your TE's were better than Heath Miller? Again, I'd really like to see what the ratings are based on.
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Zombo said:
Mack is better, and it's not even close, Bud.
He was absolutely dominating from the center position last year before his injury. Pouncey is solid, but not as good as Mack.
Zombo
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll admit, I don't watch Mack every weekend. I watch Pouncey and he's a beast. He runs down the field like a fullback. He pulls. He's a fantastic athlete. I actually met him a few weeks ago at a Texas Roadhouse near my home. I got a picture of him with my 11 year old son. I'm 6' and around 275lbs. He towered over me and his hand was like a softball glove. I was impressed.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll admit, I don't watch Mack every weekend. I watch Pouncey and he's a beast. He runs down the field like a fullback. He pulls. He's a fantastic athlete. I actually met him a few weeks ago at a Texas Roadhouse near my home. I got a picture of him with my 11 year old son. I'm 6' and around 275lbs. He towered over me and his hand was like a softball glove. I was impressed.
Alright, we will agree to disagree, we'll see how they each do this year. Our guy Tourma does a great rating and recap of our OL each week, and I remember Mack was just scoring off the charts each week whether it was good one or bad for the rest of the line.
6' 275lb ... it wouldn't kill ya to mix in a salad every now and then.
Zombo
-
Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
I can't speak about the Browns players. I can tell you Cam Heyward is fantastic. All hustle, good leader, very strong. He applies a lot of pressure.
Cam Thomas is garbage and outside of a flood of injuries I don't see how he makes the team.
Steve Mclendon played with a shoulder injury last year. Very strong 2 gap player that I have a high opinion of.
Dan McCullers was a rookie spot player last year who started at times late in the season due to injuries. He's a house, like 6'8" 350. Tough to move.
Stephon Tuitt was a rook out of ND and really got better over the course of the year. He'll start this year and expectations are high.
Arthur Moats is an average journeyman type player who I expect will start at the beginning and eventually be replaced by Dupree when he's ready.
Jones was injured last year after having 2 sacks in 3 games. He came back but had a hard time and had to split with Harrison.
Harrison continues to be a beast who will get situational pass rush opportunities this year. Love the guy.
Shazier fought injuries last year but flashed when he played. I expect him and Timmons to become one of the best tandems in the NFL by years end.
Vince Williams and Sean Spence have been solid backups. Larry Foote type players.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll admit, I don't watch Mack every weekend. I watch Pouncey and he's a beast. He runs down the field like a fullback. He pulls. He's a fantastic athlete. I actually met him a few weeks ago at a Texas Roadhouse near my home. I got a picture of him with my 11 year old son. I'm 6' and around 275lbs. He towered over me and his hand was like a softball glove. I was impressed.
Alright, we will agree to disagree, we'll see how they each do this year. Our guy Tourma does a great rating and recap of our OL each week, and I remember Mack was just scoring off the charts each week whether it was good one or bad for the rest of the line.
6' 275lb ... it wouldn't kill ya to mix in a salad every now and then.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Alright, we will agree to disagree, we'll see how they each do this year. Our guy Tourma does a great rating and recap of our OL each week, and I remember Mack was just scoring off the charts each week whether it was good one or bad for the rest of the line.
6' 275lb ... it wouldn't kill ya to mix in a salad every now and then.
Zombo
I eat a lot of salad. I just have a head the size of a volkswagen.
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