Hall of Fame QB win percentages
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Nevertheless....my point remains: Young.....not as good as Elway, Marino, Kelly, Favre
Stabler just as good.
Stabler is basically like a top 30 quarterback......yet every single list I can find....every single one.....has Young as a top 10 all time qb....
So, while you are certainly allowed your opinion, I do believe you stand alone....here are a bunch of top 10 all time qb lists....most are pretty much the same.....every single one has young.....and zero have Stabler, Cunningham or Esiason......I challenge you to find a top 10 list with any of those 3 and no Steve Young....
8th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1185910-the-top-10-all-time-nfl-quarterbacks/page/4
8th here... http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-quarterbacks/
5th here... http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/top-10-qbs-all-time#photo-title=Steve+Young&photo=10893521
7th here... http://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfls-greatest-25-quarterbacks-all-time#19
7th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342286-nfls-10-greatest-quarterbacks-of-all-time/page/5
6th here... http://www.fanatix.com/news/top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/168194/5/
5th here... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-hobratsch/greatest-qbs-of-all-time_b_4509396.html
7th here... http://fansided.com/2014/08/30/nfl-rankings-top-10-quarterbacks-time/6/
8th here... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-definitive-list-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks/6376
so...literally the first ten "top 10" lists I read had Young....every single one.....zero had any of those other guys....zero....
so....my point remains that Young is a slam dunk "consensus" top ten goat candidate and a first ballot slam dunk HOF member....and those others guys can not say the same.....
Stabler is basically like a top 30 quarterback......yet every single list I can find....every single one.....has Young as a top 10 all time qb....
So, while you are certainly allowed your opinion, I do believe you stand alone....here are a bunch of top 10 all time qb lists....most are pretty much the same.....every single one has young.....and zero have Stabler, Cunningham or Esiason......I challenge you to find a top 10 list with any of those 3 and no Steve Young....
8th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1185910-the-top-10-all-time-nfl-quarterbacks/page/4
8th here... http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-quarterbacks/
5th here... http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/top-10-qbs-all-time#photo-title=Steve+Young&photo=10893521
7th here... http://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfls-greatest-25-quarterbacks-all-time#19
7th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342286-nfls-10-greatest-quarterbacks-of-all-time/page/5
6th here... http://www.fanatix.com/news/top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/168194/5/
5th here... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-hobratsch/greatest-qbs-of-all-time_b_4509396.html
7th here... http://fansided.com/2014/08/30/nfl-rankings-top-10-quarterbacks-time/6/
8th here... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-definitive-list-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks/6376
so...literally the first ten "top 10" lists I read had Young....every single one.....zero had any of those other guys....zero....
so....my point remains that Young is a slam dunk "consensus" top ten goat candidate and a first ballot slam dunk HOF member....and those others guys can not say the same.....
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.
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Again look at the percentages... more TDS, Esiason had more TDs
less Ints, completes far more passes, Esiason completed far more passes
higher yard per attempt,
Yards per catch just as important.
Sigh. I said look at the percentages ... more Tds and you response is that Esiasion has more TDS. You even quoted the word "percentages", how did you miss that one?
Young completed 64% of his passes to Esiason's 57%. AGAIN ... I said percentages. AGAIN ... it's not close. Being good for 12 years is not better than being great for 8.
Yards per completion is not just as important. I am 10-10 for 120 yards and you are 1-10 for 12 yards, we each have the same yards per completion, but I have moved my team tens times as far as you have moved yours.
That is why experts rely on yards/ attempt.
In fact, if the yards per completions are close, which they are in the they case of Boomer, Ranbo and Young, then that plays in to the hands of the more accurate passer, because they are both completing equally long pass plays, but the more accurate passer is completing far more, resulting in far more yards and offensive production.
Boomer's average per completion is 12.8 and he completes 57% of his throws, so if he throws 100 time he has gotten my team 730 yards. Young's aver per completion is 12.4 and he completes 64% of his throws, so if he throws 100 times he has gotten my team 800 yards. Which number is bigger, 800 or 730?
Do you know who led the NFL in yards per completion last year? Brian Hoyer.
Problem was, he was 32nd in completion percentage.
So you have Brian Hoyer throwing the ball 438 times and Tony Romo throwing the ball 435 times. Brian Hoyer had 13.7 ypc and Romo had 12.2. Sounds like Hoyer is the better QB, right? Except that Romo completed 69.9% of his passes which resulted 3,705 yards to Hoyer's 3,326.
Now if you apply this to Young and Esiason, Esiason is completing a slightly longer play, but Young is converting 64% of them to Esiason's 55% which means more yards for your offense. Plus, accuracy can keep you on the field.
There is no fucking doubt that Steve Young was better than Boomer Esiason. They played at the same time, in similar systems, and Young has a higher comp%, higher y/a, higher Td%, lower int%, More Pro Bowls, More All Pros, More passing championships and a Super Bowl.
There is Young's years as a starter in SF. Bold is "Led the League". 5 Times in accuracy, 4 times in TDs, twice in int%, 5 times in yards per attempt. 6 times in rating ... in seven years! If you are the best in the league at your job almost every year, you go to the Hall. It is excellence.
Then I assume you feel that Chad Pennington, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia, Daunte Culpepper, David Garrard are all better....since they all have a better passer rating.
No, I don't. You know why? Because I am not mentally Retarded. I am able to put this all into context like an adult. I understand that some guys have pretty numbers but they weren't the best. They weren't leading the league in passing every year and they weren't champions. Young played alongside some damn good QBs of his era and he matches up well against all of them. He was deadly accurate, highly intelligent, extremely athletic and he produced win after win after win and had his team at or near the top of the offensive charts every single year. None of these guys are anything like that.
You may not think Steve Young was the best QB of the 90's but his greatness cannot be denied. Every week of every year he was considered one of the very best, if not THE best of his profession. I remember, I was there. I was there for Kenny Stabler too, and he was very good and n argument could be made for the Hall. In my opinion he was not the best of the bunch of the 70's but he was probably 5th best and that is a damn good career.
I've got no problem with Stabler ... but when you start arguing Boomer and Cunningham versus Young ... get that weak shit out of here.
Zombo
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Stabler is basically like a top 30 quarterback......yet every single list I can find....every single one.....has Young as a top 10 all time qb....
So, while you are certainly allowed your opinion, I do believe you stand alone....here are a bunch of top 10 all time qb lists....most are pretty much the same.....every single one has young.....and zero have Stabler, Cunningham or Esiason......I challenge you to find a top 10 list with any of those 3 and no Steve Young....
8th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1185910-the-top-10-all-time-nfl-quarterbacks/page/4
8th here... http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-quarterbacks/
5th here... http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/top-10-qbs-all-time#photo-title=Steve+Young&photo=10893521
7th here... http://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfls-greatest-25-quarterbacks-all-time#19
7th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342286-nfls-10-greatest-quarterbacks-of-all-time/page/5
6th here... http://www.fanatix.com/news/top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/168194/5/
5th here... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-hobratsch/greatest-qbs-of-all-time_b_4509396.html
7th here... http://fansided.com/2014/08/30/nfl-rankings-top-10-quarterbacks-time/6/
8th here... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-definitive-list-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks/6376
so...literally the first ten "top 10" lists I read had Young....every single one.....zero had any of those other guys....zero....
so....my point remains that Young is a slam dunk "consensus" top ten goat candidate and a first ballot slam dunk HOF member....and those others guys can not say the same.....
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
.
We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
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Stabler is basically like a top 30 quarterback......yet every single list I can find....every single one.....has Young as a top 10 all time qb....
So, while you are certainly allowed your opinion, I do believe you stand alone....here are a bunch of top 10 all time qb lists....most are pretty much the same.....every single one has young.....and zero have Stabler, Cunningham or Esiason......I challenge you to find a top 10 list with any of those 3 and no Steve Young....
8th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1185910-the-top-10-all-time-nfl-quarterbacks/page/4
8th here... http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-quarterbacks/
5th here... http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/top-10-qbs-all-time#photo-title=Steve+Young&photo=10893521
7th here... http://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfls-greatest-25-quarterbacks-all-time#19
7th here... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/342286-nfls-10-greatest-quarterbacks-of-all-time/page/5
6th here... http://www.fanatix.com/news/top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-of-all-time/168194/5/
5th here... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-hobratsch/greatest-qbs-of-all-time_b_4509396.html
7th here... http://fansided.com/2014/08/30/nfl-rankings-top-10-quarterbacks-time/6/
8th here... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-definitive-list-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks/6376
so...literally the first ten "top 10" lists I read had Young....every single one.....zero had any of those other guys....zero....
so....my point remains that Young is a slam dunk "consensus" top ten goat candidate and a first ballot slam dunk HOF member....and those others guys can not say the same.....
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.
Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?
Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?
So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?
Ok.
Zombo
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I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.
Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?
Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?
So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?
Ok.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?
No, but those guys were better IMo than Young
Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?
Who is Ranbo?
So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?
No....again, I was only comparing similarities of the Esiason's and Cunninghams, not necessarily arguing that they were better.
But yes, I am right when I say that the following contemporaries of Young were better than Young:
Favre
Montana (if you consider him a contemporary)
Elway
Marino
Kelly
Aikman
I also do not believe that Young accomplished one iota more than Stabler...except throw fewer ints.
(but I do think that Young was better than contemporary Warren Moon...also HOF)
Ok.
Zombo
-
I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.
.
We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:
Favre
Kelly
Elway
Marino
Aikman
All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:
How about Peyton, Brady, Brees
How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman
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Zombo said:
Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?
No, but those guys were better IMo than Young
Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?
Who is Ranbo?
So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?
No....again, I was only comparing similarities of the Esiason's and Cunninghams, not necessarily arguing that they were better.
But yes, I am right when I say that the following contemporaries of Young were better than Young:
Favre
Montana (if you consider him a contemporary)
Elway
Marino
Kelly
Aikman
I also do not believe that Young accomplished one iota more than Stabler...except throw fewer ints.
(but I do think that Young was better than contemporary Warren Moon...also HOF)
Ok.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?
No, but those guys were better IMo than Young
Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?
Who is Ranbo?
So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?
No....again, I was only comparing similarities of the Esiason's and Cunninghams, not necessarily arguing that they were better.
But yes, I am right when I say that the following contemporaries of Young were better than Young:
Favre
Montana (if you consider him a contemporary)
Elway
Marino
Kelly
Aikman
I also do not believe that Young accomplished one iota more than Stabler...except throw fewer ints.
(but I do think that Young was better than contemporary Warren Moon...also HOF)
Ok.
Zombo
Ranbo Cunningham. Eagles fans used to call him that when he first came along. It didn't stick.
Zombo
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We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:
Favre
Kelly
Elway
Marino
Aikman
All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:
How about Peyton, Brady, Brees
How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman
We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:
Favre
Kelly
Elway
Marino
Aikman
All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:
How about Peyton, Brady, Brees
How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman
He said "anyone else."
-
We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.
My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...
So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...
Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:
Favre
Kelly
Elway
Marino
Aikman
All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:
How about Peyton, Brady, Brees
How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman
He said "anyone else."
-
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"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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You're boy Kenny might get in after all. Got nominated as one of the Senior finalists for the Hall. I'd post the link but can't do it on this computer.
Z
Zombo said:
You're boy Kenny might get in after all. Got nominated as one of the Senior finalists for the Hall. I'd post the link but can't do it on this computer.
Z
He'll get in. Along with Dick Stanfel.....and these other players:
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner
Orlando Pace
Marvin Harrison
Alan Faneca
plus a coach or contributor
T.O will have to wait a while.
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Here are the semi-finalists from last year who did not make it.....I say that half of the new group (non Senior, non contributor) comes from this group...even if my choices aren't there:
Morten Anderson
Steve Atwater
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Tory Holt
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Kenn
Ty Law
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenberg
Kurt Warner
Darren Woodson
Orlando Pace
Marvin Harrison
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I meant it as a compliment, Gip...
No one beats a dead horse like you do.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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But, there are those who do it better:
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