Hall of Fame QB win percentages

[Zombo]

Again look at the percentages... more TDS, Esiason had more TDs

less Ints, completes far more passes, Esiason completed far more passes

higher yard per attempt,

Yards per catch just as important.

Sigh. I said look at the percentages ... more Tds and you response is that Esiasion has more TDS. You even quoted the word "percentages", how did you miss that one?

Young completed 64% of his passes to Esiason's 57%. AGAIN ... I said percentages. AGAIN ... it's not close. Being good for 12 years is not better than being great for 8.

Yards per completion is not just as important. I am 10-10 for 120 yards and you are 1-10 for 12 yards, we each have the same yards per completion, but I have moved my team tens times as far as you have moved yours.

That is why experts rely on yards/ attempt.

In fact, if the yards per completions are close, which they are in the they case of Boomer, Ranbo and Young, then that plays in to the hands of the more accurate passer, because they are both completing equally long pass plays, but the more accurate passer is completing far more, resulting in far more yards and offensive production.

Boomer's average per completion is 12.8 and he completes 57% of his throws, so if he throws 100 time he has gotten my team 730 yards. Young's aver per completion is 12.4 and he completes 64% of his throws, so if he throws 100 times he has gotten my team 800 yards. Which number is bigger, 800 or 730?

Do you know who led the NFL in yards per completion last year? Brian Hoyer.

Problem was, he was 32nd in completion percentage.

So you have Brian Hoyer throwing the ball 438 times and Tony Romo throwing the ball 435 times. Brian Hoyer had 13.7 ypc and Romo had 12.2. Sounds like Hoyer is the better QB, right? Except that Romo completed 69.9% of his passes which resulted 3,705 yards to Hoyer's 3,326.

Now if you apply this to Young and Esiason, Esiason is completing a slightly longer play, but Young is converting 64% of them to Esiason's 55% which means more yards for your offense. Plus, accuracy can keep you on the field.

There is no fucking doubt that Steve Young was better than Boomer Esiason. They played at the same time, in similar systems, and Young has a higher comp%, higher y/a, higher Td%, lower int%, More Pro Bowls, More All Pros, More passing championships and a Super Bowl.

There is Young's years as a starter in SF. Bold is "Led the League". 5 Times in accuracy, 4 times in TDs, twice in int%, 5 times in yards per attempt. 6 times in rating ... in seven years! If you are the best in the league at your job almost every year, you go to the Hall. It is excellence.

Then I assume you feel that Chad Pennington, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia, Daunte Culpepper, David Garrard are all better....since they all have a better passer rating.

No, I don't. You know why? Because I am not mentally Retarded. I am able to put this all into context like an adult. I understand that some guys have pretty numbers but they weren't the best. They weren't leading the league in passing every year and they weren't champions. Young played alongside some damn good QBs of his era and he matches up well against all of them. He was deadly accurate, highly intelligent, extremely athletic and he produced win after win after win and had his team at or near the top of the offensive charts every single year. None of these guys are anything like that.

You may not think Steve Young was the best QB of the 90's but his greatness cannot be denied. Every week of every year he was considered one of the very best, if not THE best of his profession. I remember, I was there. I was there for Kenny Stabler too, and he was very good and n argument could be made for the Hall. In my opinion he was not the best of the bunch of the 70's but he was probably 5th best and that is a damn good career.

I've got no problem with Stabler ... but when you start arguing Boomer and Cunningham versus Young ... get that weak shit out of here.

Zombo

[Mudfly]

@the-gipper said:

I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.

.

We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.

My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...

So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...

[Zombo]

@the-gipper said:

I can list 10 other better QBs with the snap of my finger......as I said, he barely made top 5 of his own era.

He fit his system well, yes. That is what I see.

Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?

Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?

So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?

Ok.

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Zombo said:

Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?

No, but those guys were better IMo than Young

Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?

Who is Ranbo?

So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?

No....again, I was only comparing similarities of the Esiason's and Cunninghams, not necessarily arguing that they were better.

But yes, I am right when I say that the following contemporaries of Young were better than Young:

Favre

Montana (if you consider him a contemporary)

Elway

Marino

Kelly

Aikman

I also do not believe that Young accomplished one iota more than Stabler...except throw fewer ints.

(but I do think that Young was better than contemporary Warren Moon...also HOF)

Ok.

Zombo

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.

My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...

So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...

Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:

Favre

Kelly

Elway

Marino

Aikman

All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:

How about Peyton, Brady, Brees

How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman

[Zombo]

@the-gipper said:

Zombo said:

Same system that Joe Montana and Bret Favre played almost their entire careers in, so do we throw them out too?

No, but those guys were better IMo than Young

Your beloved Ranbo had his only great year in Denny Green's WCO, should we throw out his Vikings years because he fit the system?

Who is Ranbo?

So all these writers that voted Young All-Pro and HOF were wrong and you are right?

No....again, I was only comparing similarities of the Esiason's and Cunninghams, not necessarily arguing that they were better.

But yes, I am right when I say that the following contemporaries of Young were better than Young:

Favre

Montana (if you consider him a contemporary)

Elway

Marino

Kelly

Aikman

I also do not believe that Young accomplished one iota more than Stabler...except throw fewer ints.

(but I do think that Young was better than contemporary Warren Moon...also HOF)

Ok.

Zombo

Ranbo Cunningham. Eagles fans used to call him that when he first came along. It didn't stick.

Zombo

[wargograw]

@the-gipper said:

@mudfly said:

We know thats your opinion. And you know our opinion.

My point is that I presented an argument showing a consensus supporting Young as a top 10 all timer...

So, Ill ask again....can you produce the same to support your views?.....got any lists that show anyone else supports your argument(or do you just assume you know more than everyone else, including the HOF committee).(10 lists would be nice, since I easily did it).....or some top 10 lists w/o young?(cause I could get 20 more with him)...

Yea, here is a list: He is at best 6th among his own contemporaries:

Favre

Kelly

Elway

Marino

Aikman

All better. That means I only need to find 5 more from the rest of football history. Let's see:

How about Peyton, Brady, Brees

How about Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Baugh, Luckman

He said "anyone else."

[The Gipper]

@wargograw said:

He said "anyone else."

I am all the authority one needs.

at least in this regard.

[Zombo]

You're boy Kenny might get in after all. Got nominated as one of the Senior finalists for the Hall. I'd post the link but can't do it on this computer.

Z

[Tour2ma]

[The Gipper]

Zombo said:

You're boy Kenny might get in after all. Got nominated as one of the Senior finalists for the Hall. I'd post the link but can't do it on this computer.

Z

He'll get in. Along with Dick Stanfel.....and these other players:

Brett Favre

Kurt Warner

Orlando Pace

Marvin Harrison

Alan Faneca

plus a coach or contributor

T.O will have to wait a while.

[The Gipper]

Here are the semi-finalists from last year who did not make it.....I say that half of the new group (non Senior, non contributor) comes from this group...even if my choices aren't there:

Morten Anderson

Steve Atwater

Isaac Bruce

Don Coryell

Roger Craig

Terrell Davis

Tony Dungy

Kevin Greene

Tory Holt

Joe Jacoby

Edgerrin James

Jimmy Johnson

Mike Kenn

Ty Law

John Lynch

Kevin Mawae

Karl Mecklenberg

Kurt Warner

Darren Woodson

Orlando Pace

Marvin Harrison

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

You need to go back to your own free speech zone and not intrude on mine.

[Tour2ma]

I meant it as a compliment, Gip...

No one beats a dead horse like you do.

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

I meant it as a compliment, Gip...

No one beats a dead horse like you do.

I'm pretty good at riding a live one:

[The Gipper]

But, there are those who do it better: