Jonathan Paul Manziel
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After I posted and long before I had even seen that excuse I knew it was going to be used.tia,
Forget JFF.... it's now JMM... Johnny "Mindreader" Manziel...
When JMM launches the ball the D is two yards deeper than his WR yet he knows that the CB is going to pull up short on 3rd and 19...
Apparently you can make this kind of stuff up.
Also made up... "in stride"...
Now there is an incredibly small dose of truth. Bailing on coverage with 3rd and forever will tell the WR/QB to break off the route at the sticks or a shorter distance. That takes rep after rep to perfect.
However that wasn't the call here. Even if it was, I'm almost certain didn't see the safety nor try to look him off. He assumed that being in the box he would be a non factor with the go call.
That same concept bit Bridgwater in the ass Monday night. Show a single high, shift to a 2 man - you either throw at a bad read or eat the sack.
When Johnny starts his windup Benji isn't even with Crow. He was going that way the whole time.
Edit: Again, if the boundary safety even looks at Manziel instead of trying to rob the #3, he has very little ground to close on the throw.
I remember that exact same look being thrown at Manning when he was with Indy. Needless to say, Ed Reed made Peyton his bitch that game.
When Johnny starts his windup Benji isn't even with Crow. He was going that way the whole time.
... and that's the point. Unless you're prepared for a possible negative outcome you do not make that throw to a WR trailing his cover by two-yards. But it's 3rd and 19 on your own 45, so even an INT inside the 20 is as good as a punt.
I'm happy Crom guessed wrong and we got the score, but let's at least be realistic about what happened and not involve the Psychic Hot Line...
Tour-no problem-see my reply other thread.
Only the thing most upsetting about the D unrelated to JM was not setting the edge against the run and our All-Pro CB being beaten like a red-headed stepchild. Both caught me totally by surprise. I still can't wrap my brain around either one of those things with our D. I suspect neither can the D players themselves.
You are most gracious, Sir... in kind please accept my modifications to my original post.
And D-wise we want the exact same thing...
... for many of the same reasons...
... with perhaps slightly different emphasis on some.
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Just finished O-line grades a bit ago and one of the RB conclusions I reached is that they were not patient enough Week 1. Granted they could still be waiting for a hole on some plays, and the lack of good lanes has to make them "anxious", but there were plays to be had had they been a little more patient. Duke was offender #1, but Crow was not far behind and he knows better... at least he did last year.
You glide behind a ZBS until it is time to go.... and then you plant and get gone. There's a big difference between TR's or even West's dancing and gliding like Crow did last year and Arien Foster makes a living doing.
I hope flip does away with the pistol sets. Good lord it's painful to watch.
Amen, brother tia... JM flashed real PAP skill Game 1 and two things the Pistil kills are the run game and PAP. I think we may need both.
Should go uptempo and use shotgun a lot where JM is comfortable... Open up with 3-4 wide a lot and then get the ground game going if we can get ahead...
We did not put 4 WRs on the field at the same time in Week 1. Why would we start now?
I would not start up-tempo, especially if we are on D first, but later... yeah. Whatever we can do to maximize the chances of our QB being successful... I'm for it.
Maybe even a little zone read? We are going to see some...
I am fully not looking forward to him starting this week, tbh, if that changes anything. I have to prep myself for vile comments about him on this board, and a bunch of idiotic, ignorant comments about the Browns, Flip, Pettine, our receivers, our offensive line, our defense, and the city of Cleveland on the A&M board. I hope that, as it has this week, most of the discussion at least here is level-headed.
Level-headed here or there...
In other words you have the worst of both worlds... I do not envy you. All you can do is keep it real... and you're good at doing that.
Besides... maybe it'll end up a best of both worlds week.
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Thanks for the analysis. Always money. I had a real feeling that he was playing about the same as he did against the Bengals last year, it's just that the team around him actually performed for him. I know most of this board isn't willing to acknowledge it, but Johnny had very little help in that Bengals game. And hey, I (and he neither) am not going to hold a grudge over it. The guys didn't respect him. He didn't earn it. It happens. That's what this offseason for Johnny fixed. So I'm not here to complain about the team and I wanna make that clear.Thanks and my apologies in advance if you've not yet read my reply in the other thread...
Yes... for either QB to succeed a run game they can Play-Action off of is paramount.
And FWIW McCown's play-action execution was awful half-hearted stuff.
JM's was far superior including carrying out fakes after actually handing off... something fairly rare at the Pro level.
Will add that the Jets were unbelievably disciplined... against our PAP.
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
But the fact of the matter is PFF actually graded Johnny higher in that game than they did Shaw against the Ravens. You wouldn't know it reading the comments here. Against the Bengals, Joe was not good (you can check your own grades and confirm/deny). Additionally, our receivers dropped some critical balls. These were the guys that helped make Hoyer look solid all year so they had the ability to help make or break Johnny, IMO.
Sorry for the long preface, but I say all that to say this: Johnny played about the same last Sunday as he did in that Bengals game. He just had receivers actually making plays for him and some better protection (although still not up to this unit's standard and I think they would tell you that too). And to boot, his PFF grade was nearly identical to the Bengals game.
And about that, I am quite disappointed, but, as noted, there are a ton of reasons he could have a ton more success this week than he did last. I am an eternal optimist. And FTR, Flip was very adamant yesterday that Johnny played a lot better than he did in his starts last year so he's either just taking advantage of a narrative to instill confidence or my analysis is totally flawed.
Thanks for the analysis. Always money.
Sorry for the long preface, but I say all that to say this: Johnny played about the same last Sunday as he did in that Bengals game. He just had receivers actually making plays for him and some better protection (although still not up to this unit's standard and I think they would tell you that too). And to boot, his PFF grade was nearly identical to the Bengals game.
And about that, I am quite disappointed, but, as noted, there are a ton of reasons he could have a ton more success this week than he did last. I am an eternal optimist. And FTR, Flip was very adamant yesterday that Johnny played a lot better than he did in his starts last year so he's either just taking advantage of a narrative to instill confidence or my analysis is totally flawed.
You're one, true-blue, PFF convert... If you liked my analysis cliff's notes, you might like the full text, now posted, even more. It's not quite as long as Moby Dick...
My JT score for JM's Bengals game was net 0... his lowest of the year, IIRC... at least it's hard to conceive of a lower score. But there was not a lot of line scoring in that game as we ran a season low 42 offensive plays. His Indy game might actually have been worse given that in 64 plays he netted a 2. Indy is in the same write up. I did not grade the final two games of the season.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31392&hl=%2Bweek+%2Bgrades
As for the rest of your preamble, read it... lived it... done with it. I firmly believe the season broke soon after Mack broke his leg.
As for JM... yes, better this year, but that 2014 bar is so... so low. I really thought he flashed more in Week 1 at first look... as in watching the game live, but in grinding the DVR to dust this week my appraisal fell lower and lower. But there were some good takeaways as well, e.g., his PAP skills.
I don't remember JM's Bengals' game loss all being placed on him... although I am sure some did place it all there. There was plenty of fault to find with that effort everywhere.
I recall the mood going into Shaw's Ravens' effort as more hopeful without expectations being too high. Given his UDFA roots vs. a 1st rounder's, I think that is understandable. Life ain't necessarily fair. And I recall seeing some things to like in it... at least from a field commander, effort perspective.
I think we all know now that of our two, 2014 Rookie QBs, only one was really prepping hard week in and week out. The other had his demons to contend with... whatever they were. Now with those gone... hopefully for good... if the talent is truly there, then it really is a matter of time and effort.
From what I saw last week I am confident JM is not capable of winning the TN game, but I am more than ready to accept an effort that does not lose it.
And that effort has to be better than last week's... by the whole team.
We shall see.
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As for Hoge,, I don't mind him having an opinion, that's what he's paid to do. It's the vitriol that oozes from him when he talks about Johnny that I don't like. It's unprofessional and ugly.
Again, he's played 9 quarters at age 22. He is improving and will continue to improve. Whether he can ever be an NFL winning qb remains to be seen, but it's definitely too early to call Hoge right.
Success will breed success for Johnny, as I've said before. If he can play well, help the team win a game, his confidence will grow and he can build on that.
Agree with all this. I didn't have as much problem with the criticism by Hoge as I did with the ugly almost taking it personal way he was doing it. I think it is too early to tell yet if Manziel will be a good NFL quarterback or not. His work ethic and attitude this year though gives him a much better chance of succeeding.
Agree with all this. I didn't have as much problem with the criticism by Hoge as I did with the ugly almost taking it personal way he was doing it. I think it is too early to tell yet if Manziel will be a good NFL quarterback or not. His work ethic and attitude this year though gives him a much better chance of succeeding.
Thought JM handled this well in his new professional attitude. If it were last season. Mik could have sent him a T stating "Hoge & Heath Evans (nflnetwork) can both Bite Me." Well used in my cave after watching these 2 Turds talk about anything Browns..
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Well today is Miles Garrett day for me (SEC Network 12pm est). Browns need to trade the bank to get that guy in 2017. He makes Von Miller look like his little brother. Von is 6'3" 249lb. running a 4.49 40. MG is 6'5" 262lb. with a 4.46 40. Athletic skills are identical.
I'll worry about JM tomorrow.
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Maybe these will help?
The card read:
"To: Tour
Believe & have a happy birthday.
From: Johnny"
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Sorry if this has already been posted... (usual happens), but this struck me as funny...
and indicates that JM has a confidence and sense of humor about where he is in
progresssing as a Browns qb.
This is just hilarious - JM asked about what Hoge says about him....
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-rips-merril-hoge-220738031.html
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Merril's ties are hilarious, but toting that knot around has to have some workout value...
Not going to rain on the hope parade here at any length, but... shocker... neither can I be completely silent.
So here in a picture is why I cannot be optimistic...
Go Browns...
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Can't wait to see what a 'true' stud rookie QB looks like.....
Marriota is the real deal....been saying it for 2 years.
Fuck you. You're just some fan of another team, not the Browns thats for dam sure.
Fuck you. You're just some fan of another team, not the Browns thats for dam sure.
A frustrated Browns fan.
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Sorry if this has already been posted... (usual happens), but this struck me as funny...
and indicates that JM has a confidence and sense of humor about where he is in
progresssing as a Browns qb.
This is just hilarious - JM asked about what Hoge says about him....
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-rips-merril-hoge-220738031.html
Sorry if this has already been posted... (usual happens), but this struck me as funny...
and indicates that JM has a confidence and sense of humor about where he is in
progresssing as a Browns qb.
This is just hilarious - JM asked about what Hoge says about him....
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-rips-merril-hoge-220738031.html
Pretty sad he's making headlines based on shit like this.
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pretty sad you're just another no-class troll.
didn't need the first one....
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Pretty harsh but hard to argue: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-s-last-stand-could-be-upon-us-184754487.html
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Tour, you're the only one that hates quotes of long posts as much as I do. So I won't do it here.
I don't know how good of a job PFF is doing, but I know they're the only ones actually doing that job. I can't watch and evaluate every player on every play and their stuff generally reflects the truth so I trust it (although it's also very useful for busting up incorrect narratives).
PFF had Joe at a 0 too so attaboy. Not trying to relitigate that game, just wanted to give my perspective on Johnny's performance last week so I had to give that long preface.
Don't see anything else to respond to. Glad to see your second look of the game came a little closer to matching my thoughts of it as well.
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Pretty harsh but hard to argue: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-s-last-stand-could-be-upon-us-184754487.html
Pretty harsh but hard to argue: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-s-last-stand-could-be-upon-us-184754487.html
He might be a tad short, but supposedly his hands are abnormally large, so I don't get where they say he has small hands.
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Pretty harsh but hard to argue: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/johnny-manziel-s-last-stand-could-be-upon-us-184754487.html
He might be a tad short, but supposedly his hands are abnormally large, so I don't get where they say he has small hands.
He might be a tad short, but supposedly his hands are abnormally large, so I don't get where they say he has small hands.
^ same here man, I remember them saying he had the biggest hands of every qb in his draft class
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He sucks too.
carr is leaps and bounds better than your boy. not even close.
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His hands are massive. Shows the level of effort put into the article.
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All of the QBs from that class are. That doesn't say much though.
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Tour, you're the only one that hates quotes of long posts as much as I do. So I won't do it here.
I don't know how good of a job PFF is doing, but I know they're the only ones actually doing that job. I can't watch and evaluate every player on every play and their stuff generally reflects the truth so I trust it (although it's also very useful for busting up incorrect narratives).
PFF had Joe at a 0 too so attaboy. Not trying to relitigate that game, just wanted to give my perspective on Johnny's performance last week so I had to give that long preface.
Don't see anything else to respond to. Glad to see your second look of the game came a little closer to matching my thoughts of it as well.
PFF had Joe at a 0 too so attaboy. Not trying to relitigate that game, just wanted to give my perspective on Johnny's performance last week so I had to give that long preface.
The preface was fine. Helped me understand your perspective.
Thanks for the attaboy... 19 more and I can cancel an "aw-shit."
That said I have to assume that my having an identical grade to PFF is purely coincidental as I know nothing of their system... although I am curious. But I'm happy to hear I'm in the ball park or at least follow a similar trend.
I googled "grading O-line play" when I decided to try doing this a year ago and the most beneficial info I found was around guarding against the need to assign a grade for every player on every play. It amazed me for a while that it was true for so many so much of the time.
Most of he rest of what I do I made up as I went along. Maybe I came close to reinventing a wheel.
Some items were added to satisfy particular requests or points of debate. The Box Counts are an example of the latter. This year I've added how many of the box turned into rushers on Pass plays, but did not tally that data.
Just out of curiosity... what was PFF's 2014 Indy grade for JT?
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