Jonathan Paul Manziel
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McCown is better right now, but Manziel isn't going to improve on the bench.
First off, he needs to be paired with a coach who will work with his strengths. Pettine seems to hate Manziel. Bad situation.
Also, Manziel didn't get a lot of help last night. I saw quite a few drops. Sure, Manziel needs to keep improving, but I honestly expected him to look worse than he did. His 92 yard TD drive before halftime was excellent.
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Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
QB, WR(s), RB(s), LB(s) then DL and OL in that order.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
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Manziel has the extra threat to run, it allows for more flexibility in the run game since the defense has to respect Manziel's elusiveness. Did anyone notice how much better Crowell looked last night compared to other games?
Manziel does have some improvements to make in going through his reads, but he did a decent job of getting the ball out quickly and getting rid of the ball instead of taking huge risks. If McCown can start against the Steelers, great, but I would not be upset if Johnny got another start. It seems like he is improving and I'd like to see where his ceiling is. Both QBs give us a chance to win, but I like the extra mobility of Manziel and how it can open up the running game.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I call BS
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I know your post is 100% pure shit.
We have the second-best OL in the league, behind Dallas.
You're always welcome to dislike objective reality, but you'll be incorrect every time.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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Let's be honest about this, whoever is our starting QB, asking them to throw it 40 times per game while rushing 15 times at 3 ypc is *not* a long term recipe for success. Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge are both on pace for thousand yard (or close) seasons, with double digit touchdowns, while Duke Johnson looks a great receiving weapon out of the backfield, like a darren sproles or gio bernard. So, it's not like the cupboard is totally bare in terms of playmaking receiving talent - without mentioning the black sheep of the corps who could really ignite any offense if he can ever get on the field.
Fix the damn run game, and this O, especially with the then-believable play actions and rollouts, will be coming on just fine, with Manziel or McCown under center.
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I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
That is an interesting question. Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck, and the longest ever to not win a playoff game. There is patience, and their is almost saintly patience and that is what we have shown here in Cincinnati. There have been times we have tried to run him out of town, but to Mike Browns credit he has refused. The reality is the first 4 or 5 years he had to change a losing culture which meant cleaning house and getting his own guys in. That process is not fun and can often times result in losing seasons.
Dalton was in a similar boat. People wanted him cut or traded before the year. Many fail to remember that years ago, QB's didn't start in the NFL until years two and three not as rookies coming off lockout shortened off seasons as Dalton did. The idea that guys will come in and be Peyton Manning in their first couple years is laughable, heck Peyton Manning wasn't even all that great until year 3.
I think you need to get some continuity, but the trick is deciding which coach and QB to invest that patience into.
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I thought Manziel looked really good in the first half. Second half was on Pettine and his "stay in the pocket" mindset. Let the kid play, at least it was fun to watch. McCown is a 36 year old, proven loser. Manziel is a young, second year, developing (if allowed) QB. With the receiving core we have, I say Manziel is the BETTER QB because he can run and make things happen. McCown can only throw the ball to recieivers who aren't open, or will drop the ball anyway. As for our defense.......................what defense???
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
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let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
That is an interesting question. Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck, and the longest ever to not win a playoff game. There is patience, and their is almost saintly patience and that is what we have shown here in Cincinnati. There have been times we have tried to run him out of town, but to Mike Browns credit he has refused. The reality is the first 4 or 5 years he had to change a losing culture which meant cleaning house and getting his own guys in. That process is not fun and can often times result in losing seasons.
Dalton was in a similar boat. People wanted him cut or traded before the year. Many fail to remember that years ago, QB's didn't start in the NFL until years two and three not as rookies coming off lockout shortened off seasons as Dalton did. The idea that guys will come in and be Peyton Manning in their first couple years is laughable, heck Peyton Manning wasn't even all that great until year 3.
I think you need to get some continuity, but the trick is deciding which coach and QB to invest that patience into.
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Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
He'll play more games, but that doesn't mean we should sugar coat the situation.
"Oh it's unfair, not fair to evaluate him yet - oh he had a tough matchup, oh Pettine isn't utilizing him correctly"
Fuck him'
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Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
Thats an over simplification of what he has done on the year as a whole. Every week they change the gameplan, so while this week they went underneath (most likely because Cleveland thought the Bengals would go deep) Dalton throws every throw in the NFL and normally takes a lot of shots deep. He has gotten to the point in year 5 where the Bengals can ask him to do different things each week and he can execute the gameplan well.
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season
i'm for both giving pettine and manziel (and the GM and rest of staff) a fair shot. but don't come crying when one or all are gone at the end of the season. if he get's the shot and shits the bed then bye bye. same goes with coaching staff. show improvement. that's all i'm asking for with all of these dopes.
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Fuck it I'll be like tacosman
"Yea the defense was bad but only scored 10 points because our quarterback sux"
"Defense not that big of a problem"
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
Ok... 7 point game... good punt and a penalty on the Bengals leaves them at their own 9 yard line. Defense comes out and promptly gives up a 91 yard TD drive.
Who's to blame for that shitshow? The offense?
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One bright spot: Ibraheim Campbell got the start due to the DB concussion issues.. and played great. The safety position will continue to be a strength after Whitner retires (soon).
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
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