Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
That is an interesting question. Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck, and the longest ever to not win a playoff game. There is patience, and their is almost saintly patience and that is what we have shown here in Cincinnati. There have been times we have tried to run him out of town, but to Mike Browns credit he has refused. The reality is the first 4 or 5 years he had to change a losing culture which meant cleaning house and getting his own guys in. That process is not fun and can often times result in losing seasons.
Dalton was in a similar boat. People wanted him cut or traded before the year. Many fail to remember that years ago, QB's didn't start in the NFL until years two and three not as rookies coming off lockout shortened off seasons as Dalton did. The idea that guys will come in and be Peyton Manning in their first couple years is laughable, heck Peyton Manning wasn't even all that great until year 3.
I think you need to get some continuity, but the trick is deciding which coach and QB to invest that patience into.
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I thought Manziel looked really good in the first half. Second half was on Pettine and his "stay in the pocket" mindset. Let the kid play, at least it was fun to watch. McCown is a 36 year old, proven loser. Manziel is a young, second year, developing (if allowed) QB. With the receiving core we have, I say Manziel is the BETTER QB because he can run and make things happen. McCown can only throw the ball to recieivers who aren't open, or will drop the ball anyway. As for our defense.......................what defense???
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
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let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
That is an interesting question. Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck, and the longest ever to not win a playoff game. There is patience, and their is almost saintly patience and that is what we have shown here in Cincinnati. There have been times we have tried to run him out of town, but to Mike Browns credit he has refused. The reality is the first 4 or 5 years he had to change a losing culture which meant cleaning house and getting his own guys in. That process is not fun and can often times result in losing seasons.
Dalton was in a similar boat. People wanted him cut or traded before the year. Many fail to remember that years ago, QB's didn't start in the NFL until years two and three not as rookies coming off lockout shortened off seasons as Dalton did. The idea that guys will come in and be Peyton Manning in their first couple years is laughable, heck Peyton Manning wasn't even all that great until year 3.
I think you need to get some continuity, but the trick is deciding which coach and QB to invest that patience into.
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Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
He'll play more games, but that doesn't mean we should sugar coat the situation.
"Oh it's unfair, not fair to evaluate him yet - oh he had a tough matchup, oh Pettine isn't utilizing him correctly"
Fuck him'
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Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
Dalton looked good last night because they didn't ask him to do anything besides hand off, throw quick slants, and pick up a few yards when it all fell apart. Sadly, that's all it took to beat us.
Thats an over simplification of what he has done on the year as a whole. Every week they change the gameplan, so while this week they went underneath (most likely because Cleveland thought the Bengals would go deep) Dalton throws every throw in the NFL and normally takes a lot of shots deep. He has gotten to the point in year 5 where the Bengals can ask him to do different things each week and he can execute the gameplan well.
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Was Troy or Peyton that special when they first started. While Johnny might not be the best QB on the team right now, he did the one thing that I was really looking for . . . Showed improvement.
He showed that he grasped the offense, looked poised in the huddle, kept his eyes down field, . . . He even stepped up in the pocket a couple times without taking off. I thought most of his runs were warranted as the defense was setting up camp in the backfield. McCown would've have taken a serious beating last night if he had played.
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season and possibly grow into a legit starter. Look at Dalton, after some experience he's looking like a damn fine QB.
We really have nothing to lose by letting Johnny play it out, and nothing to gain by starting McCown. We just gonna play a mediocre journeyman QB until he's in his fifties?
I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season
i'm for both giving pettine and manziel (and the GM and rest of staff) a fair shot. but don't come crying when one or all are gone at the end of the season. if he get's the shot and shits the bed then bye bye. same goes with coaching staff. show improvement. that's all i'm asking for with all of these dopes.
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Fuck it I'll be like tacosman
"Yea the defense was bad but only scored 10 points because our quarterback sux"
"Defense not that big of a problem"
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
Ok... 7 point game... good punt and a penalty on the Bengals leaves them at their own 9 yard line. Defense comes out and promptly gives up a 91 yard TD drive.
Who's to blame for that shitshow? The offense?
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One bright spot: Ibraheim Campbell got the start due to the DB concussion issues.. and played great. The safety position will continue to be a strength after Whitner retires (soon).
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
One bright spot: Ibraheim Campbell got the start due to the DB concussion issues.. and played great. The safety position will continue to be a strength after Whitner retires (soon).
One bright spot: Ibraheim Campbell got the start due to the DB concussion issues.. and played great. The safety position will continue to be a strength after Whitner retires (soon).
IF we keep Gipson. Hopefully we do. Anyone else see the infographic about 'home grown' players? 49/53 players on the packers roster have only played for the packers. Impressive.
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I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Zombo said:
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Lol @ 9-7. I appreciate you believing in our team but dude, we're not winning out with either qb. If they actually want to give Johnny a chance to develop, they'll give him the rest of the season. If they wanna give up on him after 5 games, then they'll put Josh back in. I'm not a fanboy either, I'd rather have a true pocket passer as our qb of the future, but let's at least give manziel a chance before we move on
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I just don't get why people are willing to give the coaching staff all the time in the world, but aren't willing to let a young QB play out a 2-7 season
i'm for both giving pettine and manziel (and the GM and rest of staff) a fair shot. but don't come crying when one or all are gone at the end of the season. if he get's the shot and shits the bed then bye bye. same goes with coaching staff. show improvement. that's all i'm asking for with all of these dopes.
i'm for both giving pettine and manziel (and the GM and rest of staff) a fair shot. but don't come crying when one or all are gone at the end of the season. if he get's the shot and shits the bed then bye bye. same goes with coaching staff. show improvement. that's all i'm asking for with all of these dopes.
I agree, but you have to define improvement.
Improvement from Pettine would be to
A) part ways with good pal Oneil, and take over the defense . . . Like yesterday
make adjustments in scheme to better suit his players, on both sides of the ball. This includes finding middle ground with Johnny. He's not gonna succeed if forced to be a pocket passer, but he also can't be running all over the field like his hair's on fire every time there's some pressure either. But he's got to find a way to live with Johnny being Johnny . . . Even pocket passers throw ints and fumble Mike. C) find your guys and stick with them. I liked that he stuck with Crowell for the heavy lifting and used Johnson as a complimentary back. The constant shuffling of the D line is really starting to piss me off mainly because I don't see it doing any fucking good.
Improvement from Johnny is pretty self explanatory
A) continue to show an understanding of the offense. Even the most adamant anti Manziel person has to at least admit he was worlds away from what we saw last year. Keep it up and keep learning.
use the run effectively. I thought he showed a lot of improvement here. Didn't take off at the first sign of pressure but instead stepped up in the pocket a few times or moved around without completely bolting. When he did leave the pocket I thought that it was mostly warranted, and he did a lot better job of keeping his eyes down field and was looking to pass rather than run. Again keep improving on these things. C) stay off the radar off the field . . . No fucking excuses.
Improvement from farmer . . . I really don't know how to evaluate this guy yet.
A) I will say his complete lack of understanding that offensive playmakers are indeed necessary is very troubling. Pick up some legit offensive threats one way or another.
One thing I think is that he and Pettine need to get on the same page. There seems to be a lot of ego going on and they're needs to be some compromise from both sides. Ask congress how well things go when two parties just bash their heads together over and over. So do us all a favor and stop being an egomaniac . . . Start by admitting that Bowe was a complete fuck up. Haslam . . . Keep yourself (and Scheiner) out of football operations for the next two years and just sign the damn checks.
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Shit is disgusting how people already calling Manziel a back up at best. 5 career starts. Not 5 starts in a row. Just 5 when starters went down. He plays a 7-0 team that McCown probably would have had a tough time with as well... with Hartline and Hawkins out which are both starting receivers. Bowe is garbage. Cut him. Benjamin and Barnidge are his only legit catchers. Crowell had a legit game. And Duke is becoming a playmaker. Defense is depleted. I'm just saying after this game is when you wanna just hang it up. Ridiculous. If Manziel gets one year as starter he'd win more then a couple of games. All this ballwashing for McCown. He's literally a career backup at best. He had one good season. Don't get me wrong he's done great. I didn't think he would do this well. But he's a career back up. And we know that. Manziel didn't lose that game on his own.
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Zombo said:
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Lol @ 9-7. I appreciate you believing in our team but dude, we're not winning out with either qb. If they actually want to give Johnny a chance to develop, they'll give him the rest of the season. If they wanna give up on him after 5 games, then they'll put Josh back in. I'm not a fanboy either, I'd rather have a true pocket passer as our qb of the future, but let's at least give manziel a chance before we move on
Lol @ 9-7. I appreciate you believing in our team but dude, we're not winning out with either qb. If they actually want to give Johnny a chance to develop, they'll give him the rest of the season. If they wanna give up on him after 5 games, then they'll put Josh back in. I'm not a fanboy either, I'd rather have a true pocket passer as our qb of the future, but let's at least give manziel a chance before we move on
This.
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Pettine would still be rolling with Matt Flynn over Russell Wilson if he was in Seattle.
I must have missed all those games Wilson has been IA for the Seahawks....
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Pettine would still be rolling with Matt Flynn over Russell Wilson if he was in Seattle.
I must have missed all those games Wilson has been IA for the Seahawks....
Pettine would still be rolling with Matt Flynn over Russell Wilson if he was in Seattle.
I must have missed all those games Wilson has been IA for the Seahawks....
Are you saying Manziel is as good as Wilson???......seriously???......or that they even have the same game?
I dont know for sure, but Id bet the Pettine would leave skid marks rushing to make that trade, if offered the chance ....
I must have missed all those games where Manziel was IA for the Browns......
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london is pissed cuz he had to drink cold beer for the week he was here in the states........not that piss trench euro temp stuff that makes men kill each other at the soccer stadiums over.
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