Margin of Error Supersedes Improved QB Play Here
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My apology in advance for the length. As we've discussed in here, there weren't many people (sportswriters and media in particular) outside of Cleveland that felt we had QBs here that could keep us competitive in 2015. Bastards! So far, the QBs haven't been the reason "the Captain wired in he had water coming and the good ship and crew was in peril."
That said, if you look at either of our QBs in comparison to their forgettable 2014 - what do you see? 2 much improved QBs that compete especially if they get support from the defense and special teams. For example, we beat TN by double digits when our defense swarmed the QB and Benjamin returned a punt for a TD. All we needed from our QB was a couple TD passes and good decisions throwing the ball to the extent we only needed 8 completions. If that's a bad example, look at Peyton Manning the day McCown outplayed him enough to get us into overtime. Dansby caught as many TD passes from Manning as any of Manning's receivers but that game boiled down to what defense was going to be good enough to win. It was the defense good enough to remain undefeated which would also repeat history against Aaron Rodgers' previously unbeaten team.
I don't know if anyone heard this when we played Arizona; but it was said McCown was ranked #1 on 3rd down efficiency or passer ratings in 2015 so far. He spreads the ball around well with TE Gary Barnidge is enjoying a career best season. Both of our QBs are responsible for the best numbers Travis Benjamin has put together. Meanwhile, they're also hooking up with a rookie RB Duke Johnson. They're pretty much tapping anything that can be while Phil Simms gave a politically correct BINGO of the value of knee-high WRs today. We look like a very stupid football team when we tell a guy like Willie Snead he's not good enough to play in the same WR Corps that led the AFC in dropped passes for 2 straight years. Now, we're sentenced to watching Dwayne Bowe and Taylor Gabriel when Josh Lenz was told he wasn't good enough for the NFL version of minimum wage here. We deserve better than this and so does whoever volunteers to play QB. As much as Hartline's 2 TD receptions helped us vrs Arizona, his 3 second half drops serial killed drives against a first place team. Do I blame the QB that put the ball in his hands?
Our defense had it's moments in 2014 (even around where they ranked vrs the run) when they were removing the stench of the 4-12 train-wreck from 2013 so it was reasonable to expect more growth and progress this year. Unfortunately, when we were edging our way back into the Cincy game - our defense morphed from bend don't break to break don't shatter mentality. How long has Randy Starks played in the NFL? And he doesn't understand how to line up a couple feet away from the ball without being way off sides? Another time he makes a nice tackle for a loss; but instead of putting Cincy 2nd and 15 - the same hollow dome gets flagged for taunting giving Cincy 15 yards and a first down. We're already challenged on that side of the ball so adding WunDumPhuck is like giving Jason Pierre Paul a box of matches with some unlit fireworks and wondering who gets the finger. Halftime should have been 10-10. Instead, Starks' actions said if you can't beat us - don't worry about it, I'll beat us for you.
Half 2, when CLEVELAND's version of Pro Football WR is a knee high Taylor Gabriel dropping passes and hearing foot steps since his traumatic experience in St Louis (like Hartline did 3 times the week before) - we're serial killing drives against GOOD defenses. Dumping salt in wound, Cincy ain't undefeated by accident so they responded with drives punctuated by TDs while time of possession tired who's legs?
Believe it or not, I thought our line pass protected reasonably well in both halves Thursday. BUT you can't false start when you're playing good teams if you want to make 3rd downs doable for an inexperienced QB. It leaves your 4 start old QB (at 22 years of age) scrambling for about 12.5 yards when we needed 13 especially when an alternative like Gabriel in route (is still hearing footsteps from his traumatic experience in St Louis) so he wasn't going to catch anything while Benjamin and Barnidge were drawing more attention. There were plenty of throw-aways that would have been sacks or INTs from the 2014 version of Manziel, which was only a couple starts ago and 1 playbook removed (even if this was the 1st playbook Manziel actually looked at). People are going to choose to see what they want to see with Manziel. The critics that made predictions he'd suck are going to pretend Cincy was winless and he had all kinds of easy street on their televisions he just couldn't tap. How many points did Pittsburgh's full strength passing game light Cincy up for last week anyway? It's amazing how much a team's defense has a say in whether you stand a chance of beating an undefeated opponent or just the Tennessee Titans. This is the margin of error I speak of when I see a 32nd ranked defense vrs the run (plus all their 2nd half flat lines) being more the reason McCown only sports a 1-6 record in one of the best stretches of his career.
Every time our offense doesn't score - we can't be the second half defense we saw vrs Arizona and Cincy. Interestingly enough, the team Andrew Hawkins came from - has the following targets fetching passes today while their QB enjoys his best season:
Sanu 6'2"
Green 6'4"
Jones 6'2"
Tate 6'1"
Eifert 6'6"
It would be nice if somebody we're counting on for personnel decisions this side of 1999, above and beyond our 8 TD receptions from the WR Corps in 2014, was understanding what was behind the knockout blows from our divisional rivals. More access to a better catch radius isn't the only thing helping Dalton. How about guys being able to get off the line of scrimmage consistently while remaining easy to see for their QB? Does Dalton ever have to throw a pass downward to any of these guys? If we gave McCown more than Barnidge and Benjamin to throw to - would he be nearly as beat up holding onto the ball while defenses double those guys or attempt to jam them more at the line of scrimmage or both?
Hollywood even made a movie about the draft (Draft Day?) and its pertinence to the Cleveland Browns almost as if Heaven above was giving our front office in chaos unavoidable clues like: "Is there really a QB who's character doesn't have the owner/GM/HC all in unison on his first round spot?" Love Manziel or hate him - he didn't draft himself folks. And what about this one? "Is there really a LBer named Mack that needs to be strongly considered that played college ball so close by that you couldn't miss multiple great performances?" In the movie Mack played for Ohio State which is pretty close to Cleveland but in reality the University of Buffalo is only about a 3 hour car ride from Cleveland (as well as the reality they play a few Ohio schools in the MAC). The irony of it all is Mack had a terrific performance against Ohio State to the extent any team needing massive upgrades at LBer should have been put on alert there's a game changer that could be on their door step. Oakland landed Mack and a QB investment they were willing to nourish with helpful tools like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree (just 1 year later).
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Great post. Send it on to that buffoon of a GM who missed not one, but two great large guy receiver classes in a row. His contribution to those over 6'? Mayle (it in) and a has been Bowe. Why Farmer believes going after franchise receivers in the 1st two rounds is tabu is completely asinine. He would be the first to fire IMO. The DC second.
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Great post. Send it on to that buffoon of a GM who missed not one, but two great large guy receiver classes in a row. His contribution to those over 6'? Mayle (it in) and a has been Bowe. Why Farmer believes going after franchise receivers in the 1st two rounds is tabu is completely asinine. He would be the first to fire IMO. The DC second.
Great post. Send it on to that buffoon of a GM who missed not one, but two great large guy receiver classes in a row. His contribution to those over 6'? Mayle (it in) and a has been Bowe. Why Farmer believes going after franchise receivers in the 1st two rounds is tabu is completely asinine. He would be the first to fire IMO. The DC second.
Thank you! After hearing Farmer's presser - it doesn't sound like anything can penetrate the blindfold unfortunately.
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Great post. Send it on to that buffoon of a GM who missed not one, but two great large guy receiver classes in a row. His contribution to those over 6'? Mayle (it in) and a has been Bowe. Why Farmer believes going after franchise receivers in the 1st two rounds is tabu is completely asinine. He would be the first to fire IMO. The DC second.
Thank you! After hearing Farmer's presser - it doesn't sound like anything can penetrate the blindfold unfortunately.
Thank you! After hearing Farmer's presser - it doesn't sound like anything can penetrate the blindfold unfortunately.
Hmmmm perhaps walking the plank might get through in that case. Arrrrgg!
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Hmmmm perhaps walking the plank might get through in that case. Arrrrgg!
He's lucky he's not in Philly or New Jersey or they would have already chased him out of town.
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How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
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How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage? Gabriel has regressed from reliable hands at 17.3 yards per catch in 2014 to terrified with dropsies in recent weeks. I don't think Gabriel could make many NFL rosters unless somebody needs a backup slot receiver.
Above all why do you draft Manziel when you had all the time in the world to prepare for a draft and it's multiple scenarios? And THEN, on a short week against an undefeated team where you only have 1 or 2 practices before the game - it becomes: "hey, you're getting your 4th NFL start." I suppose it's better than the number of practices he had to prepare for the Jets defense; but this isn't the way to draft a QB in round 1. Look at Blake Bortles who is only starting to play his best football some 22-23 starts into things as a #3 overall pick. If we compare Manziel's 3rd start and the first half of the Cincy Game - it's quicker improvement over 4 starts for a QB that's 22 compared to the 24 year old Bortles (who has a couple different first round WRs drafted to help him out).
I used to think we had forever but in recent years I've lost my father and my brother and now I'm on the wrong side of 50 wondering why our last playoff win was 1994. Every time we get a new hotshot that thinks he knows everything acting the way Farmer acted in his presser - it reminds me why our record is skipping on not acceptable. I don't see any honest evaluation taking place which makes the art of planning thereafter seem somewhere between improbable and impossible.
I'm talking something as little as understanding this is a passing era where what you decorate your perimeter with slaps a lot of Victorious Secrets on your running game, which in turn rests your defense.
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How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage? Gabriel has regressed from reliable hands at 17.3 yards per catch in 2014 to terrified with dropsies in recent weeks. I don't think Gabriel could make many NFL rosters unless somebody needs a backup slot receiver.
Above all why do you draft Manziel when you had all the time in the world to prepare for a draft and it's multiple scenarios? And THEN, on a short week against an undefeated team where you only have 1 or 2 practices before the game - it becomes: "hey, you're getting your 4th NFL start." I suppose it's better than the number of practices he had to prepare for the Jets defense; but this isn't the way to draft a QB in round 1. Look at Blake Bortles who is only starting to play his best football some 22-23 starts into things as a #3 overall pick. If we compare Manziel's 3rd start and the first half of the Cincy Game - it's quicker improvement over 4 starts for a QB that's 22 compared to the 24 year old Bortles (who has a couple different first round WRs drafted to help him out).
I used to think we had forever but in recent years I've lost my father and my brother and now I'm on the wrong side of 50 wondering why our last playoff win was 1994. Every time we get a new hotshot that thinks he knows everything acting the way Farmer acted in his presser - it reminds me why our record is skipping on not acceptable. I don't see any honest evaluation taking place which makes the art of planning thereafter seem somewhere between improbable and impossible.
I'm talking something as little as understanding this is a passing era where what you decorate your perimeter with slaps a lot of Victorious Secrets on your running game, which in turn rests your defense.
Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage?
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
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How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
How far out do you think the front office looks ahead? Expiring contracts of players on other teams. Scouting for the future picks. Maybe he is planning something
Like losing out and having the #1 overall pick in the 2016 draft? It's within reach. We only have the Titans and Lions underneath us currently. Now if you want to talk about a dumpster fire- Detroit is an even better example- and it gets back to what Tom was saying. What a great idea to let Suh AND Fairley walk, and blow your defensive line to hell.
I used to think we had forever but in recent years I've lost my father and my brother and now I'm on the wrong side of 50 wondering why our last playoff win was 1994. Every time we get a new hotshot that thinks he knows everything acting the way Farmer acted in his presser - it reminds me why our record is skipping on not acceptable. I don't see any honest evaluation taking place which makes the art of planning thereafter seem somewhere between improbable and impossible.
I'm talking something as little as understanding this is a passing era where what you decorate your perimeter with slaps a lot of Victorious Secrets on your running game, which in turn rests your defense.
You've probably seen I've been having my run ins with Mark about the current sad state of the Browns, but your above point is even more applicable to me. I'm running out of "wait till next years" - fast. Unlike Mark, I watch the Browns for more than just the entertainment value- though I have to admit it's been pretty entertaining this year to watch the Browns come up with new and exciting ways to lose games.
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Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage?
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
Yeah- but. Bowe has been such an utter disaster- he's been a healthy scratch more than once. In this 24 day stretch with only one game I would hope Farmer would swallow his ego, admit he made a huge mistake and get rid of this $9 million waste of a roster spot. Don't see it happening though. There's guys on the practice squad who couldn't do much worse.
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I'm also of the mindset that Farmer went and got Tramon Williams for the simple fact that he knew Gilbert was a bust.
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Here's a thought. Without trading up or down in 2014 we could have had Evans @ 4 and JM @ 26. At least we would have had a combination that was used to reading one another and a 6'5" receiver with hands and speed. This team could have used him.
Don't like that combo. Well substitute in Kelvin Benjamin for JM @ 6'6". Hoyer would have been just fine then.
I have no use for a GM that thinks game changing skill guys are a waste of a pick. Mush for brains.
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Here's a thought. Without trading up or down in 2014 we could have had Evans @ 4 and JM @ 26. At least we would have had a combination that was used to reading one another and a 6'5" receiver with hands and speed. This team could have used him.
Don't like that combo. Well substitute in Kelvin Benjamin for JM @ 6'6". Hoyer would have been just fine then.
I have no use for a GM that thinks game changing skill guys are a waste of a pick. Mush for brains.
Here's a thought. Without trading up or down in 2014 we could have had Evans @ 4 and JM @ 26. At least we would have had a combination that was used to reading one another and a 6'5" receiver with hands and speed. This team could have used him.
Woulda shoulda coulda....But If Im redoing that draft, there are 2 certainties....
1) Im taking K Mack at #4...and...
2) Im not picking Johnny....
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Here's a thought. Without trading up or down in 2014 we could have had Evans @ 4 and JM @ 26. At least we would have had a combination that was used to reading one another and a 6'5" receiver with hands and speed. This team could have used him.
Woulda shoulda coulda....But If Im redoing that draft, there are 2 certainties....
1) Im taking K Mack at #4...and...
2) Im not picking Johnny....
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probably because we desperately needed a QB and there were 3 still on the board?,,,,plus, at the time, we had Gordon coming back...?
so draft a wr and leave Manziel, Carr and Bridgewater on the board?......we woulda lynched Farmer for that...
Here's something else I would like to lynch Farmer for. The Titans waive Terrance West, and since he didn't meet the minimum playing time, the Browns don't receive their conditional 7th round pick. So the 3 round pick that Farmer traded up to get, we basically just pissed away. Another reason I want that arrogant prick's job.probably because we desperately needed a QB and there were 3 still on the board?,,,,plus, at the time, we had Gordon coming back...?
so draft a wr and leave Manziel, Carr and Bridgewater on the board?......we woulda lynched Farmer for that...
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Not sure Mike. That said, I can't imagine any of the rock star FAs about to come available in 2016 are wanting any part of Ray Farmer's program here.
Dwayne Bowe hadn't posted good stats in 3 years and look what he paid the guy with all best football parked in the rear view mirror. His plans to upgrade the red zone with taller guys were either veterans long past upside, 1 experiment w/ Pryor changing positions and Vince Mayle with a 2 year body of work.
Look at what we agreed to pay Bowe while we won't even bring Lenz in here to outplay him for the NFL version of minimum wage?
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
One thought that Farmer would never admit, is that Bowe was really intended to be the bridge(1 yr filler) till Gordon came back...Now, I know we cant "count" on Gordon and I know that Bowe has been a disaster.....
but I do see what he was thinking.....and IF it had worked out well with Bowe, then we'd have that big strong receiver now.....and would be coming out next year with both Bowe and Gordon....along with all the speedy smurfs....and we'd have a versatile, solid group with a superstar quality receiver leading the way....and w/o spending a high pick.....
Anyway....thats what I think they were thinking......
But why not keep a 6'3 Miles Austin who proved to be a serviceable, go-to guy in 2014? Not to mention that he was a good bit cheaper than Bowe.
As for Evans... his 24 receptions would fit right in...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
!! Thanks Flugs. put the pot of Java down 
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