Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Manziel sucks.
The quicker the cord is cut the faster the recovery can begin.
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This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.Zombo said:
Really? I have I ever deleted one of my threads before??
Do you have anything at all ... ever ... to base that on?
I didn't think so.
Are you just a whiny cunt?
OK, that makes sense.
Good talk.
Zombo
Call me a whiny cunt all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Manziel is going to be our starter next year, nor does it change the fact that you'll go back on your sentiments when he does start winning.
Because half of the people here are whiny, reactionary pussies who have zero backbone. Bad game? Aw fuck he's the worst let's get rid of him. Good game? Aw fuck he's better than anyone in the league.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win. They just stomp around and throw a tantrum because boo hoo, woe is me, the Browns suck.
C'mon Timmy! You are known to be a flip flopping whiny bitch. Manziel sucks and he will never ever get it... I'm sticking to my gun since draft day.This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.
Call me a whiny cunt all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Manziel is going to be our starter next year, nor does it change the fact that you'll go back on your sentiments when he does start winning.
Because half of the people here are whiny, reactionary pussies who have zero backbone. Bad game? Aw fuck he's the worst let's get rid of him. Good game? Aw fuck he's better than anyone in the league.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win. They just stomp around and throw a tantrum because boo hoo, woe is me, the Browns suck.
Most brown fans like you have no clue about football. How can anyone think Manziel can be anything in the pros. What games were folks watching in the college ranks?!?!?
MFG!!
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TCPO and the rest of the Manziel dick lickers are whining in the other thread because we haven't given proper thought to their list of excuses "He has no weapons, boo hoo hoo" ... "He had the sniffles" ... "Aaron Rogers had a bad game too!"
Because, well that is what pussies do. They whine and make excuses instead of maybe saying "wow, it is the end of year two and this guy's footwork is awful, he still can't read defenses or go through progressions, and he is wildly inconsistent."
So I am just wondering ... who can I compare Johnny too? How about the quarterback on the same team with the same players?
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
I assume we are OK with the "weapons" argument here, unless you think Brian Hartline and Andrew Hawkins were the very key to McCown's success. But I can hear the "experienced QB" whining, so let's look at his classmates:
OK, how about the players in the same draft class, the four QBs taken in the first 36 picks:
Blake Bortles
29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ...
That what pussies do, they make excuses.
No one will be a valid comparison for them.
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Zombo said:
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
Blake Bortles29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ... EXACTLY
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
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Way too many pages to read through right now, but my assessment of Manziel was that he did pretty good. I saw the line-up at the beginning of the game and our starting WRs were Benjamin and Gabriel... I was like, "Johnny is gonna have to run for his life"! All he did was avoid being sacked all game long and breaking rushing records for a QB in Clevelnad(and that is going to be a low number when all is said and done). You can't expect him to hit receivers that just aren't there to be hit. On the rare occasion where there is a receiver wide open... he's gotta hit that guy. But that goes for any QB. He's young and has a lot to prove/learn, but he's on the right track.
With Gordon and another big ass WR, on the field that is also playmaker, it's going to be a fun ride with Manziel. It's not Gloom and Doom for me, for me I can start to see the Sun breaking over the peaks at the dawning of a new era. We will get this franchise righted. Manziel spiking that helmet at the end of the game sealed the deal for me. Finally a QB that shows that it pisses him off, it's now 'awe shucks' maybe next time mentality. That fight and desire to win will carry over to the rest of the team and become contagious, he's the catalyst as much as some of you may hate it.
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Zombo said:
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
Blake Bortles29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ... EXACTLY
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
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Manziel
Footwork - below avg
Arm strength - below avg
Accuracy - below avg
Ability to read defense - piss poor
Height - below avg
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Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
Zombo said:
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
Z, I'm really not defending Manziel, but those points #s just might be attributable to no weapons?
If the Browns decide to terminate the JFF experiment, it won't make me particularly sad.
I think I made my case in another thread. If you decide Manziel isn't the answer- just because you have a top five pick, doesn't mean you have to take a quarterback at all costs. Not if the value isn't there. I've pointed out the disaster cases. Russell, Griffin, Harrington. That would set us back even farther than sticking with Johnny boy. Just having a franchise qb isn't the automatic ticket to the Promised Land either, or you want to tell me guys like Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, and Matt Stafford aren't?
If it was that damn easy to find the next franchise quarterback- every team would have one. I think we've tried.
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I'm going to have to double check the game stats, but I believe Mitchell Schwartz had more catches than Dwayne Bowe.
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Yeah convenient spot for a typo.
So anyway, To clean this up ... Osweiler's career yards/game is now 94.7, his yards per START is 246.8
Johnny's yards per start this year is 212.3 and career 173.2.
His Yards per start this year is lower than the yards per game of everybody else mentioned.
As for the Browns in 2015:
In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game.
In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game.
If you guys are cool with giving up 6.5 points every week then, by all means, let's march on with Johnny next year.
I'm sure he'll start learning stuff.
Zombo
Thanks for updating.Zombo said:
So anyway, To clean this up ... Osweiler's career yards/game is now 94.7, his yards per START is 246.8
Johnny's yards per start this year is 212.3 and career 173.2.
His Yards per start this year is lower than the yards per game of everybody else mentioned.
As for the Browns in 2015:
In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game.
In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game.
If you guys are cool with giving up 6.5 points every week then, by all means, let's march on with Johnny next year.
I'm sure he'll start learning stuff.
Zombo
Hey didn't you post this exact same thing a week or 2 weeks ago? NA you didn't but there is plenty of room on the bandwagon for ya.Manziel
Footwork - below avg
Arm strength - below avg
Accuracy - below avg
Ability to read defense - piss poor
Height - below avg
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Looks like Johnny's way of giving Browns fans the finger
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VesnaKociper said:
Holy Shit, you cunt holes are arguing as if it was me causing all the ruckus. I like it! Let me put in my two cents.
On Zombo - Or as I affectionately have called him, Zomblow :-)... For fuck's sake, the guy has a career, this shit isn't his job. Hell, I consider him a friend and he hasn't just pulled my threads, the sonofabitch has terminated my account a few times. What the hell are you whining about "Couch Pulls Out" ? Grow a set already.
Nobody here gets paid for football knowledge. We all have an asshole and we all have an opinion. We get paid and recognized equally for both.
Stan created the best haven for Browns fans to post messages that ever existed. Be glad that Zombo loves the Browns so much that he comes in here and deals with our childish bullshit.
On The Browns - For all our bitching about talent, the team has had enough to be competitive and within striking distance of a lot of games. I will say it again, a lot of the problem is in basic block, tackle, pass, catch, execute and make-no-penalties behavior. God knows I have stirred up my share of shit, but while this team stinks, it seems to me that draft picks alone aren't going to make the difference.
It is impossible that management can be so incompetent as to select nothing but poor talent. The A #1 priority with this team has nothing to do with draft picks, and positions or x's and 0's.....it has to do with team work, a standard philosophy and leadership to get everyone to buy into the program. Whatever values teams like The Pats, Steelers and other perennial winners adopt, that seems to me to be where the Browns foundation needs to start.
All this bullshit fighting over who we should have taken, who we should replace and who should play where, is just noise. How the fuck can anyone judge the talent level on this team when everyone involved, including management is operating in chaos?
On Manziel - If it were me, I would be inline with Zombo. I have seen enough of this guy. And you know, it doesn't mean that he might not straighten out and fly right for another team. That isn't the issue. The issue for me is this............. he has come to Cleveland and took a heaping shit on the fans, the heritage, the name and the good will of the team and the city. The issue for me is that he hasn't given his best.
The Browns need to set a standard and hold to it. You can't one day call a guy out, and the next day start him, then the next day pull him again. Until this franchise sets a standard, drafts, coaches and behaves according to that standard, the franchise will not be a quality product. I don't see how Manziel can ever be a leader of a franchise that adheres to such values.
On the backside, I will repeat myself, if coach Spitoon is going to play the kid, then play him for the year and don't be wishy-washy about it.
in the past was able to read between your lines....you've just honed your craft to a higher level.
100% agree with everything you just said.
well done sir.
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You all deserve to be the miserable pussies that you are
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Zombo said:
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
Z, I'm really not defending Manziel, but those points #s just might be attributable to no weapons?
If the Browns decide to terminate the JFF experiment, it won't make me particularly sad.
I think I made my case in another thread. If you decide Manziel isn't the answer- just because you have a top five pick, doesn't mean you have to take a quarterback at all costs. Not if the value isn't there. I've pointed out the disaster cases. Russell, Griffin, Harrington. That would set us back even farther than sticking with Johnny boy. Just having a franchise qb isn't the automatic ticket to the Promised Land either, or you want to tell me guys like Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, and Matt Stafford aren't?
If it was that damn easy to find the next franchise quarterback- every team would have one. I think we've tried.
Z, I'm really not defending Manziel, but those points #s just might be attributable to no weapons?
You are back to my first excuse buffer in my first post.
We are right around 13 points per game when Manziel starts or has the majority of snaps over the past two years.
Hoyer in 2014 ... 21.3
McCown in 2015 ... 21.8
Johnny ... 13.1
Same team. Same weapons.
And I am even willing to throw 2014 out because Little Johnny forgot to practice n stuff.
But in 2015 ... 21.8 with McCown and 15.3 for Johnny
6.5 points a game.
I know you all want to give him another year, just like those that wanted to give Brady Quinn another year.
Can't you just look at him and see how far away he is and how improbable it is that he'll ever be a trusted franchise QB? I can. I'm not patting myself on the back or anything ... I don't want him to fail, I root for him like he's my son on Sundays. I even started him on playoff fantasy team down the stretch ... I'm just saying ... Can't you see it? He's got major passing issues.
If it was that damn easy to find the next franchise quarterback- every team would have one. I think we've tried.We have. And now, I'm saying ... it's time to try again.
Zombo
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Looks like Johnny's way of giving Browns fans the finger
Looks like Johnny's way of giving Browns fans the finger
Actually that's more than some "fans" deserve.
WSS
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The smartest thing I've ever seen you post...and it's still not very smart.
Oh gawd, if you liked my post, then it surely sucked
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VesnaKociper said:
Holy Shit, you cunt holes are arguing as if it was me causing all the ruckus. I like it! Let me put in my two cents.
On Zombo - Or as I affectionately have called him, Zomblow :-)... For fuck's sake, the guy has a career, this shit isn't his job. Hell, I consider him a friend and he hasn't just pulled my threads, the sonofabitch has terminated my account a few times. What the hell are you whining about "Couch Pulls Out" ? Grow a set already.
Nobody here gets paid for football knowledge. We all have an asshole and we all have an opinion. We get paid and recognized equally for both.
Stan created the best haven for Browns fans to post messages that ever existed. Be glad that Zombo loves the Browns so much that he comes in here and deals with our childish bullshit.
On The Browns - For all our bitching about talent, the team has had enough to be competitive and within striking distance of a lot of games. I will say it again, a lot of the problem is in basic block, tackle, pass, catch, execute and make-no-penalties behavior. God knows I have stirred up my share of shit, but while this team stinks, it seems to me that draft picks alone aren't going to make the difference.
It is impossible that management can be so incompetent as to select nothing but poor talent. The A #1 priority with this team has nothing to do with draft picks, and positions or x's and 0's.....it has to do with team work, a standard philosophy and leadership to get everyone to buy into the program. Whatever values teams like The Pats, Steelers and other perennial winners adopt, that seems to me to be where the Browns foundation needs to start.
All this bullshit fighting over who we should have taken, who we should replace and who should play where, is just noise. How the fuck can anyone judge the talent level on this team when everyone involved, including management is operating in chaos?
On Manziel - If it were me, I would be inline with Zombo. I have seen enough of this guy. And you know, it doesn't mean that he might not straighten out and fly right for another team. That isn't the issue. The issue for me is this............. he has come to Cleveland and took a heaping shit on the fans, the heritage, the name and the good will of the team and the city. The issue for me is that he hasn't given his best.
The Browns need to set a standard and hold to it. You can't one day call a guy out, and the next day start him, then the next day pull him again. Until this franchise sets a standard, drafts, coaches and behaves according to that standard, the franchise will not be a quality product. I don't see how Manziel can ever be a leader of a franchise that adheres to such values.
On the backside, I will repeat myself, if coach Spitoon is going to play the kid, then play him for the year and don't be wishy-washy about it.
in the past was able to read between your lines....you've just honed your craft to a higher level.
100% agree with everything you just said.
well done sir.
in the past was able to read between your lines....you've just honed your craft to a higher level.
100% agree with everything you just said.
well done sir.
Occasionally Mik- you get to see the good Ghoolie. It's a fun time. And BTW- I disagree with Zombo. The suck defense needs more help, talent, and coaching than the offense does. McCown may have put up better numbers than Manziel- but as I said- he's a backup for a reason. Doesn't pass the eye test, regardless of numbers. And he's not going to get any better. Personally, I'm tired of him standing back there like a pinata waiting, waiting, and WAITING to get busted up.
If Manziel is a backup, you build the team, and take your franchise qb last. 2016 is not shaping up to be the year.
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in the past was able to read between your lines....you've just honed your craft to a higher level.
100% agree with everything you just said.
well done sir.
Occasionally Mik- you get to see the good Ghoolie. It's a fun time. And BTW- I disagree with Zombo. The suck defense needs more help, talent, and coaching than the offense does. McCown may have put up better numbers than Manziel- but as I said- he's a backup for a reason. Doesn't pass the eye test, regardless of numbers. And he's not going to get any better. Personally, I'm tired of him standing back there like a pinata waiting, waiting, and WAITING to get busted up.
If Manziel is a backup, you build the team, and take your franchise qb last. 2016 is not shaping up to be the year.
If Manziel is a backup, you build the team, and take your franchise qb last. 2016 is not shaping up to be the year.
I use to believe you build the team then go after a franchise QB. However with franchise QB's being such a rare commodity. If you don't have one then you have to take a shot anytime the chance arises. I'd rather take a shot with one high first round pick on a QB that everyone in the organization thinks could be a franchise player. Even if it turns out wrong it's better to blow one pick than blow two 1st and a 3rd or one 1st and two 2nd round picks if you traded up and were wrong.
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