Which Qb Goes Where?
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Browns draft Kevin Hogan in the 3rd round
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And, since we're on the subject:
What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
That was also from around Christmas, his thoughts may have changed recently. I don't have access to his most recent big board but I assume it can't be drastically different.
I actually like all three of these quarterbacks for different reasons. Goff is the safest bet, but Lynch has intriguing upside and Wentz is like the perfect mix between the two.
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What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
That was also from around Christmas, his thoughts may have changed recently. I don't have access to his most recent big board but I assume it can't be drastically different.
I actually like all three of these quarterbacks for different reasons. Goff is the safest bet, but Lynch has intriguing upside and Wentz is like the perfect mix between the two.
That was also from around Christmas, his thoughts may have changed recently. I don't have access to his most recent big board but I assume it can't be drastically different.
I actually like all three of these quarterbacks for different reasons. Goff is the safest bet, but Lynch has intriguing upside and Wentz is like the perfect mix between the two.
Wentz is concerning because what's the sample size?
He's had arm injuries in high school and broke his throwing wrist this season (out 2 months).
There's other scouting things I can say that are concerning about him, but ultimately I think the senior bowl and combine will be way more important for Wentz than any other QB prospect.
I'm all about overrating the mental attributes and technical attributes rather than the physical ones nowadays, that's also part of the reason I don't see Wentz on that high of a level.
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That was also from around Christmas, his thoughts may have changed recently. I don't have access to his most recent big board but I assume it can't be drastically different.
I actually like all three of these quarterbacks for different reasons. Goff is the safest bet, but Lynch has intriguing upside and Wentz is like the perfect mix between the two.
Wentz is concerning because what's the sample size?
He's had arm injuries in high school and broke his throwing wrist this season (out 2 months).
There's other scouting things I can say that are concerning about him, but ultimately I think the senior bowl and combine will be way more important for Wentz than any other QB prospect.
I'm all about overrating the mental attributes and technical attributes rather than the physical ones nowadays, that's also part of the reason I don't see Wentz on that high of a level.
Wentz is concerning because what's the sample size?
He's had arm injuries in high school and broke his throwing wrist this season (out 2 months).
There's other scouting things I can say that are concerning about him, but ultimately I think the senior bowl and combine will be way more important for Wentz than any other QB prospect.
I'm all about overrating the mental attributes and technical attributes rather than the physical ones nowadays, that's also part of the reason I don't see Wentz on that high of a level.
That's interesting to me because Wentz is probably the most cerebral of the big three. He has the most experience with pro concepts, the most experience with full field reads, the most experience under center, and is rather technically sound.
Goff is a natural passer and exhibits great control of the offense, but the question remains how well he'll grasp pro concepts (like identifying zone defenses, something that gave him trouble this year) and how well he'll react to moving under center. Those are things that Wentz is already adept at.
Wentz's flaws are more in the level of competition and his lack of elite level arm strength than any mental aspects. And as I've said before, arm strength has never been a detractor for me. Nor has competition level.
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Wentz is concerning because what's the sample size?
He's had arm injuries in high school and broke his throwing wrist this season (out 2 months).
There's other scouting things I can say that are concerning about him, but ultimately I think the senior bowl and combine will be way more important for Wentz than any other QB prospect.
I'm all about overrating the mental attributes and technical attributes rather than the physical ones nowadays, that's also part of the reason I don't see Wentz on that high of a level.
That's interesting to me because Wentz is probably the most cerebral of the big three. He has the most experience with pro concepts, the most experience with full field reads, the most experience under center, and is rather technically sound.
Goff is a natural passer and exhibits great control of the offense, but the question remains how well he'll grasp pro concepts (like identifying zone defenses, something that gave him trouble this year) and how well he'll react to moving under center. Those are things that Wentz is already adept at.
Wentz's flaws are more in the level of competition and his lack of elite level arm strength than any mental aspects. And as I've said before, arm strength has never been a detractor for me. Nor has competition level.
That's interesting to me because Wentz is probably the most cerebral of the big three. He has the most experience with pro concepts, the most experience with full field reads, the most experience under center, and is rather technically sound.
Goff is a natural passer and exhibits great control of the offense, but the question remains how well he'll grasp pro concepts (like identifying zone defenses, something that gave him trouble this year) and how well he'll react to moving under center. Those are things that Wentz is already adept at.
Wentz's flaws are more in the level of competition and his lack of elite level arm strength than any mental aspects. And as I've said before, arm strength has never been a detractor for me. Nor has competition level.
Goff makes full field reads and runs pro routes with 4-5 receivers - he just hasn't run under center.
Wentz as I can see has the injury questions, footwork issues, issues out of the pocket, issues on touch on the intermediate throws, accuracy issues down field.
I make it sound worse than it is - there's a lot of good about him, but Goff is better in all those areas IMO.
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That's interesting to me because Wentz is probably the most cerebral of the big three. He has the most experience with pro concepts, the most experience with full field reads, the most experience under center, and is rather technically sound.
Goff is a natural passer and exhibits great control of the offense, but the question remains how well he'll grasp pro concepts (like identifying zone defenses, something that gave him trouble this year) and how well he'll react to moving under center. Those are things that Wentz is already adept at.
Wentz's flaws are more in the level of competition and his lack of elite level arm strength than any mental aspects. And as I've said before, arm strength has never been a detractor for me. Nor has competition level.
Goff makes full field reads and runs pro routes with 4-5 receivers - he just hasn't run under center.
Wentz as I can see has the injury questions, footwork issues, issues out of the pocket, issues on touch on the intermediate throws, accuracy issues down field.
I make it sound worse than it is - there's a lot of good about him, but Goff is better in all those areas IMO.
Goff makes full field reads and runs pro routes with 4-5 receivers - he just hasn't run under center.
Wentz as I can see has the injury questions, footwork issues, issues out of the pocket, issues on touch on the intermediate throws, accuracy issues down field.
I make it sound worse than it is - there's a lot of good about him, but Goff is better in all those areas IMO.
Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Goff makes full field reads and runs pro routes with 4-5 receivers - he just hasn't run under center.
Wentz as I can see has the injury questions, footwork issues, issues out of the pocket, issues on touch on the intermediate throws, accuracy issues down field.
I make it sound worse than it is - there's a lot of good about him, but Goff is better in all those areas IMO.
Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
Right, but I think Goff's learning curve won't be so steep because of the things he does so well. The footwork, awareness, etc.
Wentz is my #2, followed by probably Prescott (I can't get behind Lynch for some reason). But I think at #2, it can't be Wentz it has to be Goff. I just love too much of what I'm seeing from him.
I'm always leery of a guy like Wentz who hasn't really played a lot, he had a broken wrist, and he rose to the first round out of basically nowhere. I think upside is high, but I just can't see him as the best prospect.
I'd happily take him as a consolation prize if he fell to #32, but that won't happen.
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Good convo, guys...
I don't foresee Goff having issues with the drop back. He moves too well for that and he reads D's too well. As for reading zones... I'm seen him go and throw to third options a couple times against what appeared to be zones. And so far I have seen him force two throws total.
Just spent an hour with Lynch adding three games to the list. I think I saw less than a half dozen reads total and they were all on roll-outs when the field was halved. What I did see was a one-read wonder, but one who often studied that read closely... and then drops his eyes and runs. He forced a few throws a game.
Does Memphis send in pre-snap adjustments from the sideline?
Definitely a physical talent, but he does shorten himself with his normal, 1/4-sidearm delivery which often seems like more of a push than a throw. Oddly when he really cranks a throw he shortens himself even more with an exaggerated shoulder drop into a near crouch. But at least in the Memphis horizontal offense he rarely does this as he rarely cranks one. He does have a 65-yd+ arm.
Good straight-ahead speed, but little agility. Relies on a pump fake to throw off closing defenders. He is going to get lit up someday doing this when a disciplined, Pro LB ignores the pump.
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Found link to a partial distribution chart for Lynch 2015 in this BleacherReport article:
Odd thing is in the games I've broken down so far, I thought he threw a really good deep ball. He did not throw many deep except for one game (Ole Miss, I think), but I would have thought his deep percentage to be much higher.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Goff makes full field reads and runs pro routes with 4-5 receivers - he just hasn't run under center.
Wentz as I can see has the injury questions, footwork issues, issues out of the pocket, issues on touch on the intermediate throws, accuracy issues down field.
I make it sound worse than it is - there's a lot of good about him, but Goff is better in all those areas IMO.
Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
This is spot on. Even with that said, I still think I like Goff's tools and upside better at pick No. 2. Just kidding, I don't know yet.
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Found link to a partial distribution chart for Lynch 2015 in this BleacherReport article:
Odd thing is in the games I've broken down so far, I thought he threw a really good deep ball. He did not throw many deep except for one game (Ole Miss, I think), but I would have thought his deep percentage to be much higher.
Found link to a partial distribution chart for Lynch 2015 in this BleacherReport article:
Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?
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Either, Goff, Lynch, or Wentz would be an upgrade. The shortest one is 6'4", Wentz might be the best pro QB.
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Goff makes full field reads, sure, yet a staggering number of Cal's Bear Raid offensive concepts are catch and fire, three step drop (were he under center) concepts. Granted, the NFL is slowly transitioning toward more of that philosophy, however there are still key duties he hasn't been asked to perform - and that's what keeps him from being a lock #1 overall pick and instead just a possible #1 overall.
Goff is also inherently behind the ball when it comes to footwork because of his lack of playing under center. His footwork may be impeccable as it stands now, but that's like saying he scored a 100% on the front side of the test - there's still another side...whereas Wentz has scored a 90% on both sides.
FWIW, Goff has similar accuracy issues and he starts many games slow.
There's always two sides of the coin - Goff isn't some completely polished, pro-ready prospect nor is Wentz some unheralded small school, perfect prototype. It's just a matter of upside, in my opinion. I believe Wentz has more upside due to his physical tools, yet has a lower floor due to his lack of competition.
This is spot on. Even with that said, I still think I like Goff's tools and upside better at pick No. 2. Just kidding, I don't know yet.
This is spot on. Even with that said, I still think I like Goff's tools and upside better at pick No. 2. Just kidding, I don't know yet.
I like him better at #2 as well. I'd be ecstatic if we could drop four or so spots and take Wentz at #6. Maybe even #8. However, I'm a little scared he won't make it past Dallas, unless Dallas goes in for RG3 or Manziel.
Hm...I have an idea brewing.
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This is contingent on the premise that Goff goes #1 by way of a trade.
CLE trades #2 + 2016 fourth round pick + Johnny Manziel
To
DAL for #4 + #34 + 2017 second round pick + 2017 fourth round pick
Take away Manziel and calculate point totals, it's still asking for even compensation. Manziel just sweetens the pot for Dallas.
Now Dallas can get what will likely be the top rated DE (not in my eyes) + the QB that Jerry Jones wants.
Cleveland can get Wentz at #4, then BPA ILB/DE/OLB at picks #32 and #34, plus still have two extra picks they accrued.
(The picks probably need working, but the premise is there. We have one, possibly two, things that Dallas wants. Dallas has some picks we could certainly use.)
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Found link to a partial distribution chart for Lynch 2015 in this BleacherReport article:
Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?
Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?
So was Carr.
Not that that means anything, just making an observation.
Sorry for the triple post, I'm on my phone in the gym. Feel free to condense if you want, mods.
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
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I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still.
I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link).
It's still early really. the final rankings will likely change. They see Lynch was a rawer candidate with some mechanical issues, but huge size, elusiveness, etc.
I think when the senior bowl, combine, and pro days are all said and done by March/April we'll end up with #1 Goff, #2/#3 Wentz/Lynch.
I think Goff's combine/pro day gives him the chance to solidify his spot as the consensus #1, while Wentz stands to benefit the most from all the scouting events - could be the difference between him going top 15 and going 2nd round or later. Only because Wentz is more of an unknown at this point.
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Completely agree. It's WAY early, and things always change so much. I see Wentz as a potential candidate to absolutely skyrocket. Some team will fall in love with him.
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Let me ask a different question about Wentz- what's the word on his wrist injury? I'm reading around of course but I'm curious if anyone has done more digging on it.
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