Why we need a QB in Top 5
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That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
I am making the case purely on talent.
And, yes, you can take a guy who is to sit on the bench waiting....for a bit.
Dan Marino sat for like 5 games before starting his first year.
Elway sat for 6 games
Eli Manning sat for 7 games
McNabb for 4 games
Aikman for 5 games.
This year, Goff sat for 9 games
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Steve McNair sat for 12 games
Terry Bradshaw sat for 8 games.
Phil Rivers sat for 2 years
Then there was Rodgers.
Bernie sat for half a year.
Yes, I would expect him to sit for about a half year, no doubt.
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Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
That's what I think as well. Wonder if the dude from Tennessee will last till 12.
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I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
Well....between you and me....last years draft made me want to puke.....still does, actually.....
And if we had selected the true blue chippers.....Elliot or Bosa.....we'd be liking those picks....
Had we selected the presumed "blue chip" qb's(neither of which I was intriqued with).....maybe not....
So.....if we follow your logic from last year , then Im all in......
But if we apply your logic from this year, to last years draft....eh.....not so much.....
Well....between you and me....last years draft made me want to puke.....still does, actually.....
And if we had selected the true blue chippers.....Elliot or Bosa.....we'd be liking those picks....
Had we selected the presumed "blue chip" qb's(neither of which I was intriqued with).....maybe not....
So.....if we follow your logic from last year , then Im all in......
But if we apply your logic from this year, to last years draft....eh.....not so much.....
My logic is that I want the Browns to draft what I think will be the best player available to them. The Browns didn't tank enough to take Winston....and they didn't take the guys I wanted them to take the last few years. (actually, no, I did want them to take Shelton and they did)
So...my logic is: take who I....the Gipper...think you should take.
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right....anyone who lived through the Couch years should know "why" this isnt the time to pick a QB high.....
Until this FO figures out how to build a solid foundation and the importance of winning in the trenches, it's pointless to add random skill players....ala 1st round WR's and a project QB.....who will fail miserably.....or get hurt....or not develop because they have no chance to....
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
If you read Gips posts(which I was replying to), he is clearly saying that.....if we draft Trubisky at #1, then the odds say he'll be a star....and I say BS....
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
That sums up how I feel. I like Trubisky, but I'm not sure a guy with 15 collegiate starts is worth the top pick. I doubt he falls to #12 (our Eagles pick).
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Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
Why do I always get nervous about taking players from East Germany so high? (well....the answer is right there in my statement, isn't it)
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I am not unmindful of the fact that like 50% of high QB picks may in fact bust out. Here is a list of the biggest draft busts at QBs.
These include only QBs drafted in the first 10 picks of the draft since 1960:
More or less in order of their career production:
1. Ryan Leaf 1998 Chargers #2
2. Akili Smith 1999 Bengals #2
3. Rich Campbell 1981 Packers #6
4. Kelly Stouffer 1988 Cards #6
5. Richie Lucas 1960 Redskins #4
6. Art Schlichter 1982 Colts #4
7. George Izo 1960 Cards #2 (Barberton HS)
8. Andre Ware 1990 Lions #7
9. Terry Baker 1963 Rams #1
10. Rick Norton 1966 Dolphins #2
11. Heath Shuler 1994 Redskins #3
12. Jamarcus Russell 2007 Raiders #1
13. Greg Cook 1969 Bengals #6
14. David Klingler 1992 Bengals #6
15. Todd Blackledge 1983 Chiefs #7 (N. Canton HS)
16. Matt Leinert 2006 Cards #10
17. Blain Gabbert 2011 Jags #10
18. Jack Thompson 1979 Bengals #3
19. Jake Locker 2011 Titans #8
20. Marty Domres 1969 Chargers #9
21. Pete Beatherd 1964 Lions #5
22. Jack Concannon 1964 Pats #1
23. Steve Spurrier 1967 49ers #3
24. Joey Harrington 2002 Lions #5
25. Rick Mirer 1993 Seahawks #2
Face it, the Browns could have done worse..... the Bengals have 4 QBs drafted here in the Top 10....all busts. The Lions have 3. the Cards 3.
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Also, be reminded that for every OLB like Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas that is drafted at OLB, there is a corresponding Aaron Curry, Ricky Hunly and Aundray Bruce.
And for every DE like Bruce Smith or Chris Doleman drafted, there is a Reggie Rogers or Vernon Gholston.
And for every Ronnie Lott, Deion Sanders or Rod or Charles Woodson drafted in the Top Ten, there is a Bruce Pickens, Leonard Coleman or Mossy Cade.
If the names are unfamiliar...well, its because they were defensive Top Ten pick busts.
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Let's upgrade the position that touches the ball on nearly every play... QB.
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Great plan....but only if there's a QB in the draft worth taking in the first round.
I expect that whomever we take to have his name placed one day with the people list in the OP. Its about time don't you think?
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Just a note on the original post. See the following:
Teams that had 3 QBs primarily associated with them:
49ers, Packers, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Chargers, Oilers/Tits, Giants, Rams
Teams that had 2 QBs primarily associated with them:
Pats, Colts, Dolphins, Saints, Steelers, Bengals, Raiders
Teams with just one QB associated with them:
Browns, Broncos, Vikings, Chiefs, Lions, Jets, Bears, Bills, Falcons
Teams that had no QBs associated with them:
Jaguars
Seahawks....though Wilson could eventually join list
Cardinals
Texans
Bucs
Panthers...though Newton could join list
Ravens...though Flacco could join list.
Odd that between the 2 oldest NFL franchises...Bears/Cards....only one top 50 QB....Sid Luckman from the 30s/40s is associated with them.
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I expect that whomever we take to have his name placed one day with the people list in the OP. Its about time don't you think?
I'd love that....Just don't think that the QB's in this draft are in the same class as the guys on that initial list.
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Pretty simple. This is a weak QB draft class. So players with 3rd round value find themselves going 2nd. Players with 2nd see themselves going 1st round.
Look no further than 2013 with Geno Smith. Second round pick and the kid was a very questionable pick even then.
The wise stay put, do not artifically inflate the value of a given player do to the relative weakness of their fellow classmates and let the draft come to you.
In other words, no QB #1. Probably not even top 10.
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I expect that whomever we take to have his name placed one day with the people list in the OP. Its about time don't you think?
I'd love that....Just don't think that the QB's in this draft are in the same class as the guys on that initial list.
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Pretty simple. This is a weak QB draft class. So players with 3rd round value find themselves going 2nd. Players with 2nd see themselves going 1st round.
Look no further than 2013 with Geno Smith. Second round pick and the kid was a very questionable pick even then.
The wise stay put, do not artifically inflate the value of a given player do to the relative weakness of their fellow classmates and let the draft come to you.
In other words, no QB #1. Probably not even top 10.
Pretty simple. This is a weak QB draft class. So players with 3rd round value find themselves going 2nd. Players with 2nd see themselves going 1st round.
Look no further than 2013 with Geno Smith. Second round pick and the kid was a very questionable pick even then.
The wise stay put, do not artifically inflate the value of a given player do to the relative weakness of their fellow classmates and let the draft come to you.
In other words, no QB #1. Probably not even top 10.
Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
And the double wrong part is that yes, these two QBs WILL grade out to be Top Ten prospects.
What dozen miracle football players out there at other positions are going to impress the scouts SO much that they are ALL going to abandon their need for a QB to take these other guys.
That's right.....no one.
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Pretty simple. This is a weak QB draft class. So players with 3rd round value find themselves going 2nd. Players with 2nd see themselves going 1st round.
Look no further than 2013 with Geno Smith. Second round pick and the kid was a very questionable pick even then.
The wise stay put, do not artifically inflate the value of a given player do to the relative weakness of their fellow classmates and let the draft come to you.
In other words, no QB #1. Probably not even top 10.
Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
And the double wrong part is that yes, these two QBs WILL grade out to be Top Ten prospects.
What dozen miracle football players out there at other positions are going to impress the scouts SO much that they are ALL going to abandon their need for a QB to take these other guys.
That's right.....no one.
Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
Was my post about a weak draft class NOT clear in some way? You DON"T pick a QB that high, because he looks like he might have a few flower peddles among a garden of weeds.
That it artificially inflates value of players that are lesser against previous prospects by a great margin? At any point that registers, let me know... then form a counter argument against it.
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Pretty simple. This is a weak QB draft class. So players with 3rd round value find themselves going 2nd. Players with 2nd see themselves going 1st round.
Look no further than 2013 with Geno Smith. Second round pick and the kid was a very questionable pick even then.
The wise stay put, do not artifically inflate the value of a given player do to the relative weakness of their fellow classmates and let the draft come to you.
In other words, no QB #1. Probably not even top 10.
Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
And the double wrong part is that yes, these two QBs WILL grade out to be Top Ten prospects.
What dozen miracle football players out there at other positions are going to impress the scouts SO much that they are ALL going to abandon their need for a QB to take these other guys.
That's right.....no one.
When was the last time a QB was not drafted in the top 10?Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
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When was the last time a QB was not drafted in the top 10?Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
When was the last time a QB was not drafted in the top 10?
2013. Which is EXACTLY the point I'm attempting to highlight.
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When was the last time a QB was not drafted in the top 10?
2013. Which is EXACTLY the point I'm attempting to highlight.
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Except, of course, to quote Captain Kirk...you are double dumbass wrong. AT LEAST 2 QBs will go in the Top ten. Trubisky and Watson.
Where on God's Green Earth did you get the idea that teams with desperate needs for a QB are not going to go after a QB: Browns, Jets, Bears, 49ers. Minimumly will be looking for QB. And some may even want to trade up higher to get one.
Was my post about a weak draft class NOT clear in some way? You DON"T pick a QB that high, because he looks like he might have a few flower peddles among a garden of weeds.
That it artificially inflates value of players that are lesser against previous prospects by a great margin? At any point that registers, let me know... then form a counter argument against it.
Was my post about a weak draft class NOT clear in some way? You DON"T pick a QB that high, because he looks like he might have a few flower peddles among a garden of weeds.
That it artificially inflates value of players that are lesser against previous prospects by a great margin? At any point that registers, let me know... then form a counter argument against it.
Right....you pick a QB because he appears to be an outstanding prospect.
I mean....do you not fucking get what I am fucking saying? I think this guy has Aaron Rodgers like talent.
I am not fucking stuttering.
Do you now understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.
There is NO fucking artificially inflating value.
If you disagree....so be it. But your opinion on this matter is not worth a cabbage fart more than anyone else's.
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