Orchard moving to DE Kirksey to OLB
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http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/05/21/cleveland-browns-nate-orchard/
Orchard has his work cut out for him to make the roster imo. Unless nassib literally did no work in the offseason i dont see them retaining an underschieving 3-4 holdover rven if he did play DE in college
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Hmm, ok...i didnt think the over or under ever put a DT directly over center.
I fought for a while to think of a game where the call was used more... of course, just so happens to be one of my favorites.
Best example @ 3:48 Heads up on the center, strong side G and T/TE. Now the weakside end can 2 gap in some calls/schemes/ coaches. However what is more 'traditional' is a playing contain at a 7 tech with the backer walked up in the hole taking on the T.
edit: Similar to an odd front/call - your backside/weakside end is actually a plus size player and not necessarily your primary pass rusher. He's going to be a bit more stout. Think somebody that would end up as a 5tech in a base 3 man front. Leonard Williams might be the best name I can think of. He 2 gapped quite at bit at USC.
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http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/05/21/cleveland-browns-nate-orchard/
Orchard has his work cut out for him to make the roster imo. Unless nassib literally did no work in the offseason i dont see them retaining an underschieving 3-4 holdover rven if he did play DE in college
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/05/21/cleveland-browns-nate-orchard/
Orchard has his work cut out for him to make the roster imo. Unless nassib literally did no work in the offseason i dont see them retaining an underschieving 3-4 holdover rven if he did play DE in college
18.5 sacks as a DE his senior season, way too soon to give up on him.
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http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/05/21/cleveland-browns-nate-orchard/
Orchard has his work cut out for him to make the roster imo. Unless nassib literally did no work in the offseason i dont see them retaining an underschieving 3-4 holdover rven if he did play DE in college
18.5 sacks as a DE his senior season, way too soon to give up on him.
18.5 sacks as a DE his senior season, way too soon to give up on him.
He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years. Plus he's undersized in williams system imo. Look i dont mind keeping him as depth if the roster permits it. But if they dont want to carry a bunch of DE's, well....if i had to choose right now, orch would be on the block. That may change come training camp, we'll see
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18.5 sacks as a DE his senior season, way too soon to give up on him.
He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years. Plus he's undersized in williams system imo. Look i dont mind keeping him as depth if the roster permits it. But if they dont want to carry a bunch of DE's, well....if i had to choose right now, orch would be on the block. That may change come training camp, we'll see
He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years.
Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
Edit/add: and if we compare "rookie" seasons......
Orchard: 470 snaps....36 com tackles.....3.0 sacks...
Nassib : 540 snaps....20 com tackles......2.5 sacks...
and if we compare their jr/sr years of college.....at the same position....
Orchard : 133 tackles.....21,5 sacks...
Nassib : 52 tackles.....16.5 sacks....
So...based only on the numbers....everyone of them indicates a better performance from Orchard(in my world, at least)....
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18.5 sacks as a DE his senior season, way too soon to give up on him.
He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years. Plus he's undersized in williams system imo. Look i dont mind keeping him as depth if the roster permits it. But if they dont want to carry a bunch of DE's, well....if i had to choose right now, orch would be on the block. That may change come training camp, we'll see
He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years. Plus he's undersized in williams system imo. Look i dont mind keeping him as depth if the roster permits it. But if they dont want to carry a bunch of DE's, well....if i had to choose right now, orch would be on the block. That may change come training camp, we'll see
6'4 255 isn't undersized in a 4 man front.
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He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years. Plus he's undersized in williams system imo. Look i dont mind keeping him as depth if the roster permits it. But if they dont want to carry a bunch of DE's, well....if i had to choose right now, orch would be on the block. That may change come training camp, we'll see
6'4 255 isn't undersized in a 4 man front.
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He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years.
Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
Edit/add: and if we compare "rookie" seasons......
Orchard: 470 snaps....36 com tackles.....3.0 sacks...
Nassib : 540 snaps....20 com tackles......2.5 sacks...
and if we compare their jr/sr years of college.....at the same position....
Orchard : 133 tackles.....21,5 sacks...
Nassib : 52 tackles.....16.5 sacks....
So...based only on the numbers....everyone of them indicates a better performance from Orchard(in my world, at least)....
Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
All I know is when Orchard finally got the chance to play, he closed his rookie year strong.
No reason a fresh set of eyes like Gregg Williams, different scheme, plus a return to sic em on the edge (without coverage responsibility) - cannot reproduce the relentless pass rusher he was in college. Getting him back in a 3 point should remove all that paralysis from over-analysis Horton's D was slowing people up with.
This may be just a coincidence especially since Dick LeBeau was the guy who Horton got his zone blitz schemes from; but the TN Titans went from 2-14 the last time Horton was their DC to 9-7 the year he was replaced by LeBeau. Having said that, players indicated LeBeau tweaked it and made it less complicated so there was less thinking and more sic em helping them play faster. He realized this isn't the type of era where they had 1-3 years to train the Joey Porters, Jason Gildons, Chad Browns, and Greg Lloyd's watching Pro Bowl OLB/Edge rushers in front of them role modeling the position before they cracked into the starting lineup. Not only that, he realized a team that was bad enough to earn the right to draft 1st overall in 2016 (traded to LA) didn't have the same amount of defensive talent from top to bottom Pittsburgh used to have in order to pull off such a complicated set-up. Apparently Horton never figured that out so he squared pegged the round hole all the way back to Cleveland and did whatever he did with a depth deprived defense that counted on a lot of 1st and 2nd year players experience-wise to pull it off.
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He's got .5 more sacks than nassib over 2 years.
Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
Edit/add: and if we compare "rookie" seasons......
Orchard: 470 snaps....36 com tackles.....3.0 sacks...
Nassib : 540 snaps....20 com tackles......2.5 sacks...
and if we compare their jr/sr years of college.....at the same position....
Orchard : 133 tackles.....21,5 sacks...
Nassib : 52 tackles.....16.5 sacks....
So...based only on the numbers....everyone of them indicates a better performance from Orchard(in my world, at least)....
Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
Edit/add: and if we compare "rookie" seasons......
Orchard: 470 snaps....36 com tackles.....3.0 sacks...
Nassib : 540 snaps....20 com tackles......2.5 sacks...
and if we compare their jr/sr years of college.....at the same position....
Orchard : 133 tackles.....21,5 sacks...
Nassib : 52 tackles.....16.5 sacks....
So...based only on the numbers....everyone of them indicates a better performance from Orchard(in my world, at least)....
Based on their college output ill take nassibs big 10 dpoty performance over orchards pac 12 career. Not shitting on the pac 12, but nassib got dpoty while u know who was at you know where
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Well, no matter what.....I dont see this coming down to Nassib vs Orchard, when it comes to a roster spot....personally, I see them both well above the 53 man cutoff line....
Here's how Id like to see it go....last year we kept 15 LB's and DL's.......basically 7 LB's and 8 Dl....
Considering we are going 4-3 and will be in a nickle much of the time(2 LB), I say we flip flop our #'s and keep only 6 LB's and 9 up front.....if we do this, it should easily create a role(and space) for Orchard, who can play both sides of that equation and THAT would afford the Browns an opportunity to evaluate a second round pick who's only played a hand full of games....
Stunned that so many people feel Orchard has so little to offer and can easily let him go, w/o even giving him the opportunity to show it...
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Do you realize that, because he missed most of last season, he has actually played fewer snaps than Nassib??....and those snaps were at a position he was just learning?.....
So...even with fewer snaps AND having to learn a new position he has more sacks and more tackles than Nassib...?
All I know is when Orchard finally got the chance to play, he closed his rookie year strong.
No reason a fresh set of eyes like Gregg Williams, different scheme, plus a return to sic em on the edge (without coverage responsibility) - cannot reproduce the relentless pass rusher he was in college. Getting him back in a 3 point should remove all that paralysis from over-analysis Horton's D was slowing people up with.
This may be just a coincidence especially since Dick LeBeau was the guy who Horton got his zone blitz schemes from; but the TN Titans went from 2-14 the last time Horton was their DC to 9-7 the year he was replaced by LeBeau. Having said that, players indicated LeBeau tweaked it and made it less complicated so there was less thinking and more sic em helping them play faster. He realized this isn't the type of era where they had 1-3 years to train the Joey Porters, Jason Gildons, Chad Browns, and Greg Lloyd's watching Pro Bowl OLB/Edge rushers in front of them role modeling the position before they cracked into the starting lineup. Not only that, he realized a team that was bad enough to earn the right to draft 1st overall in 2016 (traded to LA) didn't have the same amount of defensive talent from top to bottom Pittsburgh used to have in order to pull off such a complicated set-up. Apparently Horton never figured that out so he squared pegged the round hole all the way back to Cleveland and did whatever he did with a depth deprived defense that counted on a lot of 1st and 2nd year players experience-wise to pull it off.
All I know is when Orchard finally got the chance to play, he closed his rookie year strong.
No reason a fresh set of eyes like Gregg Williams, different scheme, plus a return to sic em on the edge (without coverage responsibility) - cannot reproduce the relentless pass rusher he was in college. Getting him back in a 3 point should remove all that paralysis from over-analysis Horton's D was slowing people up with.
This may be just a coincidence especially since Dick LeBeau was the guy who Horton got his zone blitz schemes from; but the TN Titans went from 2-14 the last time Horton was their DC to 9-7 the year he was replaced by LeBeau. Having said that, players indicated LeBeau tweaked it and made it less complicated so there was less thinking and more sic em helping them play faster. He realized this isn't the type of era where they had 1-3 years to train the Joey Porters, Jason Gildons, Chad Browns, and Greg Lloyd's watching Pro Bowl OLB/Edge rushers in front of them role modeling the position before they cracked into the starting lineup. Not only that, he realized a team that was bad enough to earn the right to draft 1st overall in 2016 (traded to LA) didn't have the same amount of defensive talent from top to bottom Pittsburgh used to have in order to pull off such a complicated set-up. Apparently Horton never figured that out so he squared pegged the round hole all the way back to Cleveland and did whatever he did with a depth deprived defense that counted on a lot of 1st and 2nd year players experience-wise to pull it off.
That's excellent ! Football is like a game of chess - and horton hears a who? wasn't a smart coach at it.
Williams sees the way to play - aggressive, kick ass even in practice football. It's been missing for so long -
"read and react"... who is the (*&^)(&*_) who figured that was a safe way to play defense? How in the heck would
that cover for a lack of talent/depth/experience on the roster?
Oh, the Browns are going to be a very different team this season, and the talent across the board, the SMART
and AGGRESSIVE coaching... I can't wait for the first game.
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Well, no matter what.....I dont see this coming down to Nassib vs Orchard, when it comes to a roster spot....personally, I see them both well above the 53 man cutoff line....
Here's how Id like to see it go....last year we kept 15 LB's and DL's.......basically 7 LB's and 8 Dl....
Considering we are going 4-3 and will be in a nickle much of the time(2 LB), I say we flip flop our #'s and keep only 6 LB's and 9 up front.....if we do this, it should easily create a role(and space) for Orchard, who can play both sides of that equation and THAT would afford the Browns an opportunity to evaluate a second round pick who's only played a hand full of games....
Stunned that so many people feel Orchard has so little to offer and can easily let him go, w/o even giving him the opportunity to show it...
Well, no matter what.....I dont see this coming down to Nassib vs Orchard, when it comes to a roster spot....personally, I see them both well above the 53 man cutoff line....
Here's how Id like to see it go....last year we kept 15 LB's and DL's.......basically 7 LB's and 8 Dl....
Considering we are going 4-3 and will be in a nickle much of the time(2 LB), I say we flip flop our #'s and keep only 6 LB's and 9 up front.....if we do this, it should easily create a role(and space) for Orchard, who can play both sides of that equation and THAT would afford the Browns an opportunity to evaluate a second round pick who's only played a hand full of games....
Stunned that so many people feel Orchard has so little to offer and can easily let him go, w/o even giving him the opportunity to show it...
Good stuff. Like you, I think Orchard has a lot of exactly what we need so I'm glad Greg Williams pov will count most in this one.
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I agree with all of you above. Orchard into the DE slot provides the depth we need with speed, which is what Williams wants in order to put quick pressure on QB's. It's gonna be a fun year to watch this D come together as a far better functioning unit than has been in Cleveland for many years. As ole Shaky once said, "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war." Woof Woof!
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I was so so on orchard even before we let horton go. I saw an avg to slightly above avg 3-4 olb'er, he didnt stand out me on pass rushing nor edge protection
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Cam Johnson.....cut, then signed in week 4 and then installed as starter over Schobert.....
Cam Johnson.....cut, then signed in week 4 and then installed as starter over Schobert.....
On the Depth Charts I have seen for this year, Schobert is still listed as starter....though I get what you say.
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On the Depth Charts I have seen for this year, Schobert is still listed as starter....though I get what you say.
Yeah....I see that, but he isnt....and wasnt.....the starter, but for 4 games, early in the season. Those same depth charts also have Cam Erving as our starting RT and all show a 3-4 defensive alignment(which would include an extra linebacker(Schobert?)....
some still have Barny as our TE....none show Peppers.....many have Ogbah at LB......(so they cant be trusted....just guess work on all of em)
so, my guess works is we will play mostly 4-3...with Kirksey/Davis/Collins......or nickle with only collins/kirksey.......
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On the Depth Charts I have seen for this year, Schobert is still listed as starter....though I get what you say.
Yeah....I see that, but he isnt....and wasnt.....the starter, but for 4 games, early in the season. Those same depth charts also have Cam Erving as our starting RT and all show a 3-4 defensive alignment(which would include an extra linebacker(Schobert?)....
some still have Barny as our TE....none show Peppers.....many have Ogbah at LB......(so they cant be trusted....just guess work on all of em)
so, my guess works is we will play mostly 4-3...with Kirksey/Davis/Collins......or nickle with only collins/kirksey.......
Yeah....I see that, but he isnt....and wasnt.....the starter, but for 4 games, early in the season. Those same depth charts also have Cam Erving as our starting RT and all show a 3-4 defensive alignment(which would include an extra linebacker(Schobert?)....
some still have Barny as our TE....none show Peppers.....many have Ogbah at LB......(so they cant be trusted....just guess work on all of em)
so, my guess works is we will play mostly 4-3...with Kirksey/Davis/Collins......or nickle with only collins/kirksey.......
I generally just look at Ourlads....which is usually pretty accurate and up to date. The official Browns site does not yet post a depth chart. The only thing Ourlads does is the Browns in a 4-3...but I am sure that would change once the TC starts.
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Well, no matter what.....I dont see this coming down to Nassib vs Orchard, when it comes to a roster spot....personally, I see them both well above the 53 man cutoff line....
Here's how Id like to see it go....last year we kept 15 LB's and DL's.......basically 7 LB's and 8 Dl....
Considering we are going 4-3 and will be in a nickle much of the time(2 LB), I say we flip flop our #'s and keep only 6 LB's and 9 up front.....if we do this, it should easily create a role(and space) for Orchard, who can play both sides of that equation and THAT would afford the Browns an opportunity to evaluate a second round pick who's only played a hand full of games....
Stunned that so many people feel Orchard has so little to offer and can easily let him go, w/o even giving him the opportunity to show it...
Well, no matter what.....I dont see this coming down to Nassib vs Orchard, when it comes to a roster spot....personally, I see them both well above the 53 man cutoff line....
...and I think that Nassib is basically useless. Starting NFL tackles smother him. He was lucky to make 1 tackle a game last year.
Now, I suppose that it IS possible that he put on a ton of weight & muscle since last season.
Can he throw the ball? He be a good sized QB.
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Another take on our DL/Competition ftor he 3-tech, DT slot...
Cleveland Browns: Answering the question at 3-technique
by Peter Smith 1 day ago
Every starting defensive line position is set with the exception of the 3-tech, but itβs pretty clear how the Cleveland Browns want things to shake out there.https://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/04/cleveland-browns-answering-3-tech-question/
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