Todd Marinovich back in football

The Gipper

Zombo said:

Those guys in the 70's weren't exactly "little guys" ... I think your Mean Joe Greenes, Merlin Olsens etc. could play today ... and Blanda engineered 5 comeback wins in a row at age 43

Zombo

Yes, that bullshit about players of old getting destroyed today is a pile of ignorance. FYI, the only positions where guys are bigger now are the OL and DL...due to weight training, conditioning...and just them being fatter.

The average height/weight of RBs is no more now than today. (compare Jim Brown at 6'2 232. OJ was 6'1" 212. RBs are no bigger than that. Weight training may have them weigh a bit more. WRs today are probably smaller overall. The game back then required big WRs due to bump and run. Smurfs like we have now would get destroyed. DBs and LBs are really no bigger now.

Night Train Lane was 6'1 200. Mel Blount 6'3" 201. On LBs. Dick Butkus was 6'3 245. Nitschke was 6'2 240. Our MLB today, Christian Kirksey is 6'2 236.

QBs may, overall be an inch or so taller overall. But you still have a lot of 6'2 QBs playing now. Blanda was 6'2 220. Aaron Rodgers is 6'2" 225.

So, given that Blanda and Rodgers are essentially the same dimensions, height/weight...does that mean that Rodgers would get destroyed today as well?

With the less strict rules about hitting the QBs than we have now it is Rodgers et al who may have been destroyed....by a Joe Greene, Merlin Olsen slobberknocker hit....that would not have been penalized.

mjp28

Zombo said:

Those guys in the 70's weren't exactly "little guys" ... I think your Mean Joe Greenes, Merlin Olsens etc. could play today ... and Blanda engineered 5 comeback wins in a row at age 43

Zombo

1964 BROWNS only two 270# DEs on the team all the rest way less.

NOTE: NOT THE ROSTER I WANTED BUT CLOSE:

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20141227/NEWS/141229705

1974 SB CHAMP STEELERS Joe Green 6' 4" 275# all the rest weigh less some much less. NO 300# dudes back then.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1974_roster.htm

Some of those dudes would have trouble making a 2017 roster. Different game now, even NCAA rosters are fast strong and B-I-G.

mjp28

Just part of the 2017 BUCKEYES roster, B-I-G dudes! (8 from OHIO 5 others)

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/osu-m-footbl-mtt.html

50 Brock, Nathan OL 6-4 285 SO Powell, Ohio (Olentangy Liberty)

52 Davis, Wyatt OL 6-4 310 FR Bellflower, Calif. (St. John Bosco)

53 Hamilton, Davon DT 6-4 300 RS SO Pickerington, Ohio (Central)

54 Price, Billy OL 6-4 312 SR Austintown, Ohio (Fitch)

55 Barrow, Malik DT 6-2 290 RS FR Tampa, Fla. (Catholic & IMG Academy)

58 Alabi, Joshua DT 6-5 300 RS SO Detroit, Mich. (Cass Tech)

59 Lewis, Tyquan DL 6-4 265 SR Tarboro, N.C. (Tarboro)

59 Prince, Isaiah OL 6-7 310 JR Greenbelt, Md. (Eleanor Roosevelt)

60 Pfenning, Blake OL 6-5 290 JR Wapakoneta, Ohio (Wapakoneta)

61 Cupp, Gavin OL 6-5 305 RS FR Leipsic, Ohio (Leipsic H.S.)

62 Pahl, Brandon OL 6-2 295 JR Cutler, Ohio (Warren)

63 Woidke, Kevin OL 6-6 295 JR Cleveland, Ohio (St. Ignatius)

64 Wohlabaugh, Jack OL 6-4 293 RS FR Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio (Walsh Jesuit)

mjp28

Zombo said:

Those guys in the 70's weren't exactly "little guys" ... I think your Mean Joe Greenes, Merlin Olsens etc. could play today ... and Blanda engineered 5 comeback wins in a row at age 43

Zombo

Just to complete the circle Olson and two other guys weighed 270# on the 1975 Rams. Blanda and other skilled players were getting hit by smaller dudes back then. It's strange when you go back in time and find out how your memory can play tricks on you....the steel curtain and fearsome foursome weren't really that big afterall.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/1975_roster.htm

TopDawg31

Maybe if this was about Brett favre, or even bernie but Marinovich oh my

Buck The Frowns

@nickers said:
This is a joke , right?

Not yet but it will be. He was arrested again last August. Apparently practicing his Naked Bootleg in the neighbor's back yard. He must have gone through every substance known. He is trying to numb some pain. There are some real monstrosities out there serving as sports parents, pro tennis parents can be pretty bad, but Marinovich's father takes the cake. I would describe what he did as a cross between the Pat Morita character in The Karate Kid and a Nazi breeding experiment.

The Gipper

@mjp28 said:

Just to complete the circle Olson and two other guys weighed 270# on the 1975 Rams. Blanda and other skilled players were getting hit by smaller dudes back then. It's strange when you go back in time and find out how your memory can play tricks on you....the steel curtain and fearsome foursome weren't really that big afterall.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/1975_roster.htm

I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.

DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271

Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.

As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.

So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.

The Gipper

1964 BROWNS only two 270# DEs on the team all the rest way less.

2017 Browns DEs: Garrett 271. Emmanuel Ogbah 269 lbs.

Zombo

@mjp28 said:

1964 BROWNS only two 270# DEs on the team all the rest way less.

NOTE: NOT THE ROSTER I WANTED BUT CLOSE:

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20141227/NEWS/141229705

1974 SB CHAMP STEELERS Joe Green 6' 4" 275# all the rest weigh less some much less. NO 300# dudes back then.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1974_roster.htm

Some of those dudes would have trouble making a 2017 roster. Different game now, even NCAA rosters are fast strong and B-I-G.

The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.

Z

The Gipper

Zombo said:

The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.

Z

To repeat....he was the same size as Aaron Rodgers.....and not only would he be playing behind a bigger OL, the protection rules for QBs that apply today would by all means help him.

And, also...as I described above...it is only DTs on the defense that are bigger, not DEs. See the following:

2017 Pro Bowl DEs:

Khalil Mack 6'3 247

Cameron Wake 6'3 269

Jadaveon Clowne 6'6 267

Everson Griffen 6'3 273

Cliff Avril 6'3 260

Michael Bennett 6'4 274

1970 Pro Bowl DEs:

Carl Eller 6'6 257

Rich Jackson 6'3 255

Deacon Jones 6'5 272

Claude Humphrey 6'4 253

Bubba Smith 6'7 266

Jerry Mays 6'4 252

Maybe what? A 5 pound average difference?

The Gipper

As noted, interior DTs/NTs are much bigger now:

2017 Pro Bowl DTs:

Geno Atkins 6'1 302

Ndamakong Suh 6'4 307

Jurrell Casey 6'1 300

Linval Joseph 6'4 323

Gerald McCoy 6'4 295

Fletcher Cox 6'4 298

1970 Pro Bowl DTs

Gary Larsen 6'5 261

Joe Greene 6'4 276

John Elliott 6'4 244

Merlin Olsen 6'5 270

Alan Page 6'4 245

Given their respective height, I suspect that these guys could have bulked up...if required, with the right training, nutrition. But that was not called for then.

The Gipper

And here are the MLBs:

2017 Pro Bowlers (many more because players bugged out due to injury):

Zach Brown 6'1 242

Ryan Shazier 6'2 229

CJ Mosley 6'2 238

Donta Hightower 6'3 265

Bobby Wagner 6'0 241

Sean Lee 6'2 229

Luke Kuechley 6'3 235

1970 Pro Bowlers:

Dick Butkus 6'3 245

Willie Lanier 6'1 245

Mick Curtis 6'3 232

Tommy Nobis 6'2 240

absolutely no difference...in fact, on average I think the 1970 group outweighs the 2017 group.

(Donta Hightower is an exception...he is like 25 pounds heavier than his fellow 2017 MLBs)

The Gipper

Just for shits and giggles, let's look at the QBs. This is a bit skewed because these days the QBs pussy out of the Pro Bowl...so you have 10 Pro Bowl QBs. Where, in 1970, each conference only had two QBs:

1970

John Brodie 6'1 198

Darryl Lamonica 6'4 215

Bob Griese 6'0 190

Fran Tarkenton 6'0 190

2017

Alex Smith 6'4 215

Ben R. 6'5 241

Derek Carr 6'3 218

Tom Brady 6'4 225

Andy Dalton 6'2 220

Drew Brees 6'0 209

Kirk Cousin 6'3 210

Dak Prescott 6'2 229

Aaron Rodgers 6'2 225

Matt Ryan 6'4 220

This group of QBs is overall taller than 1970 (I think the 1970 Pro Bowl group was pretty short...

thought 6'1 was a common height: Unitas, Bart Starr.

Others that may have made a Pro Bowl if they let in 10 guys could include the 6'5 Roman Gabriel. 6'4 Craig Morton. The 6'3 Terry Bradshaw, and a few others. But, yes, QBs today are generally taller.

mjp28

@the-gipper said:

I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.

DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271

Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.

As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.

So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.

I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.

mjp28

Zombo said:

The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.

Z

But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.

All I've heard comment on it agree.

mjp28

In the NFL, quarterbacks are bigger than ever. How big? At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-offensive-lineman-are-big-2011-10/#1920s-pierre-garon-wr-washington-redskins-1

Of course, nowadays, offensive linemen are much bigger than that. The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2015 is 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.

Of the 159 players who have started at least four games as an offensive lineman since the start of the 2014 season, only 23 weigh less than 300 pounds and 39 weigh at least 320 pounds.

To put the sizes in perspective, let's compare the average size for an offensive lineman through the years to an active player.

In the 1940s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's tall running backs, 6-foot-1, 221 pounds.

In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.

In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.

In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.

In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.

In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.

In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.

In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.

Zombo

@mjp28 said:

But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.

All I've heard comment on it agree.

Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks

Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.

Zombo

Ghoolie

@the-gipper said:

I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.

DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271

Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.

As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.

So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.

Point of parlimentary procedure, today's players have greater muscle mass and speed. The impact today is far harder than in Blanda's day. Hence the much shorter NFL career expectancy today.

Players today don't use steroids any longer. Steroids which the liver converted to testosterone in the liver were the first technology to make more muscular, leaner players. Deacon Jones never had the muscle mass and speed that Garrett has, Today, all players take testosterone to get super lean and put on more muscle mass.

They are different Gipper, absolutely. In his day, at 6' 2" and 230 - 235 Jim Brown was a big back. Today, he would be average size. It isn't that today's players are bigger weight wise, as much as they have more muscle mass. If you look at individual size, your argument holds some water, but if you take the entire fraternity of football players? Today's guys would crush the 1964 Browns.Monte Clark at 6' 6" 265 was indeed big, but he was not built like today's guys.

Bigger? I think they are, and for sure collectively as the league. Those old guys were smooth skinned. These kids today are monsters.

mjp28

Zombo said:

Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks

Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.

Zombo

Flutie was the amazing one to me out of that bunch small but a smart gamer. And if you keep yourself in decent shape now and are versatile enough you can always find a job as a backup QB with the rate QBs are going down now even with all the protect the QB rules now.

The Gipper

@mjp28 said:
I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.

You are trying to do a dance. That is not what your original post implied. You asserted it for basically every position.

Besides....what would you rather have....a 270 lb. Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen...or some of the 300 pound blobs that play these days.

I would put my money on the old guys to handle things. And, as I said....if those guys had needed to put on and extra 25 pounds to play today, they easily could have done so.