Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.
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@boo-fagley said:
Not accurate.
I know for a fact that 7 points came on a blocked punt vs Pittsburgh with the defense on the bench. There also must have been some pick 6's this season with the horrid QB play. Turnovers have hurt this defense. Without the blocked punt puts the D at 233 points and ranked 26th right behind Washington.
26th instead of 29th?
Well that's relief!
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@boo-fagley said:
How many pick 6's?
Doesnt take many to make a defense look terrible.
Did they also count the Fumble/score that the Lions had on DeValve?
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@boo-fagley said:
How many pick 6's?
Doesnt take many to make a defense look terrible.
A couple of wins would make the D look better
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@boo-fagley said:
How many pick 6's?
Doesnt take many to make a defense look terrible.
A couple of wins would make the D look better
A couple of wins would make the D look better
Not being as soft as wet toilet paper in 4 of the games would also make them look better.
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If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.
BUT if you check the chart, you can see that almost every team gets points against when the defense is not on the field, so I don't think there's a reason to point out that stat, simply because that's part of the game that you have to take that into account.
It doesn't help the defense either having Kizer making 3 INTs in our own side of the field (you can check that in his situational stats), but everything is part of the game.
If those stats (pick six, INTs, etc.) say anything, is that this team still has a lot to improve.
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If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.
BUT if you check the chart, you can see that almost every team gets points against when the defense is not on the field, so I don't think there's a reason to point out that stat, simply because that's part of the game that you have to take that into account.
It doesn't help the defense either having Kizer making 3 INTs in our own side of the field (you can check that in his situational stats), but everything is part of the game.
If those stats (pick six, INTs, etc.) say anything, is that this team still has a lot to improve.
If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.
Right..so you'd have to do the same research for every team in the league, so true...points allowed could be a misleading stat so I just go by how they look and what I see. I've seen them get killed 3 times in the first half (cancelling out the "they're tired and worn out because of the offense" excuse) Indy, Cincy and Houston moved up and down the field without any trouble in the first halves and this past week Detroit did the same in the 2nd half despite our time of possession edge so the defense shouldn't have been tired. That's 4 out of 9 games where the defense hasn't looked all that good. Jets and Titans the defense gave up long drives when the game was close....the defense isn't that good. Below league average for sure.
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If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.
BUT if you check the chart, you can see that almost every team gets points against when the defense is not on the field, so I don't think there's a reason to point out that stat, simply because that's part of the game that you have to take that into account.
It doesn't help the defense either having Kizer making 3 INTs in our own side of the field (you can check that in his situational stats), but everything is part of the game.
If those stats (pick six, INTs, etc.) say anything, is that this team still has a lot to improve.
If we're going to count only the points allowed when the defense is on the field, it's 240 - 21 = 219 (1 pick six, 1 fumble returned to TD, 1 punt blocked). It would put us #23, just better than the New York Jets.
BUT if you check the chart, you can see that almost every team gets points against when the defense is not on the field, so I don't think there's a reason to point out that stat, simply because that's part of the game that you have to take that into account.
It doesn't help the defense either having Kizer making 3 INTs in our own side of the field (you can check that in his situational stats), but everything is part of the game.
If those stats (pick six, INTs, etc.) say anything, is that this team still has a lot to improve.
Correct, I'm pretty sure the same criteria was used to apply to all 32 teams.
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Also, the niners & colts played an extra game than the rest of the league when this was posted. . .
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To Mark (I have a shitty internet atm, I can't make a long reply with a quote:
I think that it is normal to have a young, unexperienced defense with a new coordinator, etc. to have bad games. Houston offense was on fire, and against Cincinnatti the offense was horrendous. I remember the pick that Britt allowed in the endzone and how the first two Bengals' drives I believe were 3 and outs and we only got to fail a field goal.
My biggest concern is that I think the problem is that the defense doesn't play all 4 quaters. They're not constant during the same game.
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To Mark (I have a shitty internet atm, I can't make a long reply with a quote:
I think that it is normal to have a young, unexperienced defense with a new coordinator, etc. to have bad games. Houston offense was on fire, and against Cincinnatti the offense was horrendous. I remember the pick that Britt allowed in the endzone and how the first two Bengals' drives I believe were 3 and outs and we only got to fail a field goal.
My biggest concern is that I think the problem is that the defense doesn't play all 4 quaters. They're not constant during the same game.
I think that it is normal to have a young, unexperienced defense with a new coordinator, etc. to have bad games. Houston offense was on fire, and against Cincinnatti the offense was horrendous. I remember the pick that Britt allowed in the endzone and how the first two Bengals' drives I believe were 3 and outs and we only got to fail a field goal.
My biggest concern is that I think the problem is that it doesn't play all 4 quaters. They're not constant during the same game.
I was there for the Cincy game...the defense was no existant in the first half. 21 2nd quarter points. 13 play 88 yard drive and 3 play 81 yard drive. Game is 21-0 at halftime and over.
And yes...I agree that they will have bad games. The point though is that we have some here telling us the defense is awesome and you have to keep a lousy HC so that the defensive coordinator doesn't leave which is just stupid. The defense isn't that good...these aren't hte 85 Bears.
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I think that it is normal to have a young, unexperienced defense with a new coordinator, etc. to have bad games. Houston offense was on fire, and against Cincinnatti the offense was horrendous. I remember the pick that Britt allowed in the endzone and how the first two Bengals' drives I believe were 3 and outs and we only got to fail a field goal.
My biggest concern is that I think the problem is that it doesn't play all 4 quaters. They're not constant during the same game.
I was there for the Cincy game...the defense was no existant in the first half. 21 2nd quarter points. 13 play 88 yard drive and 3 play 81 yard drive. Game is 21-0 at halftime and over.
And yes...I agree that they will have bad games. The point though is that we have some here telling us the defense is awesome and you have to keep a lousy HC so that the defensive coordinator doesn't leave which is just stupid. The defense isn't that good...these aren't hte 85 Bears.
I was there for the Cincy game...the defense was no existant in the first half. 21 2nd quarter points. 13 play 88 yard drive and 3 play 81 yard drive. Game is 21-0 at halftime and over.
And yes...I agree that they will have bad games. The point though is that we have some here telling us the defense is awesome and you have to keep a lousy HC so that the defensive coordinator doesn't leave which is just stupid. The defense isn't that good...these aren't hte 85 Bears.
Nobody said they're the 85 bears. No one. Im not going into it again why its a horrendous move to retool a vastly improved defense. U just dont understand the game. At all. U see good offenses or defenses on other teams and u think its magic analytics sprinkles. You have no conception how "good football" comes about on either side of the ball.
Ur just a casual fantasy football fan. No more no less. Oh and i never said this defense was awesome. I said it was vastly improved over last year. And the year before that. But theres things it also doesnt do well because theres serious talent deficiencies at certain positions. But williams has done with more ir kess the same players as last year warrants he goes FUKKING NOWHERE. Any fan with a modicum of football IQ understands this
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I was there for the Cincy game...the defense was no existant in the first half. 21 2nd quarter points. 13 play 88 yard drive and 3 play 81 yard drive. Game is 21-0 at halftime and over.
And yes...I agree that they will have bad games. The point though is that we have some here telling us the defense is awesome and you have to keep a lousy HC so that the defensive coordinator doesn't leave which is just stupid. The defense isn't that good...these aren't hte 85 Bears.
Nobody said they're the 85 bears. No one. Im not going into it again why its a horrendous move to retool a vastly improved defense. U just dont understand the game. At all. U see good offenses or defenses on other teams and u think its magic analytics sprinkles. You have no conception how "good football" comes about on either side of the ball.
Ur just a casual fantasy football fan. No more no less. Oh and i never said this defense was awesome. I said it was vastly improved over last year. And the year before that. But theres things it also doesnt do well because theres serious talent deficiencies at certain positions. But williams has done with more ir kess the same players as last year warrants he goes FUKKING NOWHERE. Any fan with a modicum of football IQ understands this
Nobody said they're the 85 bears. No one. Im not going into it again why its a horrendous move to retool a vastly improved defense. U just dont understand the game. At all. U see good offenses or defenses on other teams and u think its magic analytics sprinkles. You have no conception how "good football" comes about on either side of the ball.
Ur just a casual fantasy football fan. No more no less. Oh and i never said this defense was awesome. I said it was vastly improved over last year. And the year before that. But theres things it also doesnt do well because theres serious talent deficiencies at certain positions. But williams has done with more ir kess the same players as last year warrants he goes FUKKING NOWHERE. Any fan with a modicum of football IQ understands this
Who you kidding? This defense sucks!
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Nobody said they're the 85 bears. No one. Im not going into it again why its a horrendous move to retool a vastly improved defense. U just dont understand the game. At all. U see good offenses or defenses on other teams and u think its magic analytics sprinkles. You have no conception how "good football" comes about on either side of the ball.
Ur just a casual fantasy football fan. No more no less. Oh and i never said this defense was awesome. I said it was vastly improved over last year. And the year before that. But theres things it also doesnt do well because theres serious talent deficiencies at certain positions. But williams has done with more ir kess the same players as last year warrants he goes FUKKING NOWHERE. Any fan with a modicum of football IQ understands this
Who you kidding? This defense sucks!
Who you kidding? This defense sucks!
Not in all aspects. They stuffed the run the whole season and in the lions game till collins got hurt. Some games they did "ok" against the pass. Consistent qb pressure is a major deficiency tho, ive been harping on that all season. Ive stated multiple times we need to target a veteran DE in the offseason.
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clevfan did it better than I could in saying that new head coaches want a whole new staff that will stroke their ego. No one really knows why it happens, but it does. NO ONE KEEPS COORDINATORS. Wade Phillips, hall of fame DC, one of the best of all time, left Denver for LA in a year where Denver hired a very young HC (who one would think would be happy to have Phillips stick around). And now, what do ya know, Denver's defense is struggling tremendously.
Yep...and the Rams defense who lost the all world Greg Williams doesn't seem to have missed him one bit so far this season have they?
Yep...and the Rams defense who lost the all world Greg Williams doesn't seem to have missed him one bit so far this season have they?
They replaced him with Wade Phillips. This was in the post to which you were responding....
Also, the niners & colts played an extra game than the rest of the league when this was posted. . .
Then it's a good thing they do it on a points allowed per game basis.
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What we can all agree is that the defense is objectively better than last season. We actually have pieces (Garrett, Kirksey, Collins, Ogbah, Schobert) who I feel like can be long-term starters on the team. It's not world beater, but at least it's trending upward.
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Ok, we're ranked 29 and lost our best player on a squad devoid of playmakers. Excuse me for not glowing. Seems like the same ole rat in a drain ditch
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@boo-fagley said:
I wouldnt say the defense is awesome, but I also wouldnt say the defense is the reason why the Browns have not won.
Nobody saying the def is awesome. Christ a week ago i said im glad that this def seems to have the run stopping diwn, didnt call them the 85 beats just said hey they're at least doing something well and that's something to build on.
And becausebi know something about the game of football i know that while passing dominates the stats....if a defense can consistently stop the run that means they control the line of scrimmage. Good things can be built on that.
Defenses that cant stop the run get wore down and then demoralized as they get blasted off the ball. Any former players know this, even if u were a kicker
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@boo-fagley said:
Agreed
Stopping the run is job # 1.
Well passing does take precedent in a passing league. U dont have to have the number one rush d but u cant have pussys on the line that get blown off the line in the 4th quarter when teams with a lead start to run the ball
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You guys need to think about that before you clamor for another regime change. That's in ONE Shmucking YEAR under "coffee fetcher" Williams. I'm looking right at you Ghoolie. Anyway, seriously....I know there's a Sheet ton wrong with this franchise still. I get it. But remember the last time we felt semi good about our defense? It was when Jauron was here. But we all hated Shurmur and were like get this Kunt out of here. Well then we hire Chudzinski but he brings in Ray Horton. Not exactly sure if that was Chuds call cause Jauron didn't want to stay or if Chud could have kept Jauron...I dunno. But point is HC changes, this usually happens. We've got goofballs here asking to bring in Rex footboy Ryan.....well you can kilss Williams good bye cause Rex runs what Pettine ran here. How'd that work out for us? Please please please can we shut the Shmuck up about staff changes? We have a DC here now that in one year has turned a team laden with mediocre to less than mediocre talent at some very key positions, into a top 10 defense.
We're still 18'th in pass defense but I think that's more a product of our poor pass rush instead of on the secondary.
You guys need to think about that before you clamor for another regime change. That's in ONE Shmucking YEAR under "coffee fetcher" Williams.
We're still 18'th in pass defense but I think that's more a product of our poor pass rush instead of on the secondary.
We still have FS issues as well as versatility issues at LB contributing to Pass D woes as well. Vs. DET Kirksey seemed far less effective in pass D than I've seen him. But, yes, a dominant pass rush makes up for a lot of shortcomings. We just don't have the horses yet to generate consistent pressure.... no ying to MG's yang.
Then there's the whole "since we do stop the run teams have to pass" thing...
But don't look at Phoollie... you'll go blind.
Yeah. Wasn't exactly what we were looking for. But at least it was kind of exciting.
So exciting losses were better?
I get it... the promise of being in games... of pulling games out at the end does bring a sugar high and that can be satisfying in the moment... especially when you are starving as we are now. But the great crash of 2014, plus what followed in 2015, left me feeling more empty than what I feel now.
Going to see if I can take 5 more pages of nay-saying crap...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@boo-fagley said:
Agreed
Stopping the run is job # 1.
Just curious but whatever happened to the idea of balance? You know, tough against the run and can pass cover. It's either one or the other with this team. And balance between the O and D is what creates champion teams.
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