ODDS TO WIN THE AFC, NFC and SB LII
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6 is not the operative number. The operative number is 13. Those are the number of Championship the Green Bay Packers have won. 6 doesn't even match the number of titles the Browns have won.
Packers 13
Bears 9
Browns/Giants 8 each.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give it a rest already you fossil. lol
AAFC titles, equivalent to the modern day Arena Bowl championships are not recognized by the NFL.
The operative number is 6, and the only thing that matters in todays football world are Super Bowls.
I bet even Browns fans grow weary of your "feel better about yourself because we actually have more Championships than the Steelers" rhetoric.
But if it works for you then by all means keep going with it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give it a rest already you fossil. lol
AAFC titles, equivalent to the modern day Arena Bowl championships are not recognized by the NFL.
The operative number is 6, and the only thing that matters in todays football world are Super Bowls.
I bet even Browns fans grow weary of your "feel better about yourself because we actually have more Championships than the Steelers" rhetoric.
But if it works for you then by all means keep going with it.
Everyone has their biases. Most people wouldn’t consider the 70s Steelers viable because they were the first brand managers for steroids in football. Just because they got away with belichecking their way to some early Super Bowl wins doesn’t mean mark McGuire belongs in the hall of fame.
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This Vikings D is nowhere near that good.
Is ranked 1st in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed. I'd say they have dominated almost every game this year. And I am not going to compare stats with Denver's 2015 defense, but their attack is way better than 2015 Broncos' one.
Is ranked 1st in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed. I'd say they have dominated almost every game this year. And I am not going to compare stats with Denver's 2015 defense, but their attack is way better than 2015 Broncos' one.
No one is talking about that defense as transcendent or anything. They were about 15 Denver. PFF wrote a ton of articles saying it was by far the best defense since they started the site. No one's saying that stuff about Minnesota.
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Is ranked 1st in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed. I'd say they have dominated almost every game this year. And I am not going to compare stats with Denver's 2015 defense, but their attack is way better than 2015 Broncos' one.
No one is talking about that defense as transcendent or anything. They were about 15 Denver. PFF wrote a ton of articles saying it was by far the best defense since they started the site. No one's saying that stuff about Minnesota.
No one is talking about that defense as transcendent or anything. They were about 15 Denver. PFF wrote a ton of articles saying it was by far the best defense since they started the site. No one's saying that stuff about Minnesota.
It's not about being trascendent, it's about being effective.
Truly what Denver achieved in 2015 is outstanding. Peyton had an awful year and they even had to win some games with Osweiler under center. That offense semt like a joke and they could pull out wins with their defense. I was amazed at Superbowl L, I never thought you could win ONLY with defense.
Minnesota's defense probably can't be compared to that defense, but I have seen them dominating games against good teams like Atlanta and Rams. Their only loss lately has been against Carolina, which has a great D.
It's the best defense among the ones that are left and it's the most balanced one (Philadelphia or Carolina rely on their front 7, for example). They have best defense and a good offense (11th in the league), I prefer that than teams with a very good O and a bad D (like Pats, but they seem to have fixed that).
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No one is talking about that defense as transcendent or anything. They were about 15 Denver. PFF wrote a ton of articles saying it was by far the best defense since they started the site. No one's saying that stuff about Minnesota.
It's not about being trascendent, it's about being effective.
Truly what Denver achieved in 2015 is outstanding. Peyton had an awful year and they even had to win some games with Osweiler under center. That offense semt like a joke and they could pull out wins with their defense. I was amazed at Superbowl L, I never thought you could win ONLY with defense.
Minnesota's defense probably can't be compared to that defense, but I have seen them dominating games against good teams like Atlanta and Rams. Their only loss lately has been against Carolina, which has a great D.
It's the best defense among the ones that are left and it's the most balanced one (Philadelphia or Carolina rely on their front 7, for example). They have best defense and a good offense (11th in the league), I prefer that than teams with a very good O and a bad D (like Pats, but they seem to have fixed that).
It's not about being trascendent, it's about being effective.
Truly what Denver achieved in 2015 is outstanding. Peyton had an awful year and they even had to win some games with Osweiler under center. That offense semt like a joke and they could pull out wins with their defense. I was amazed at Superbowl L, I never thought you could win ONLY with defense.
Minnesota's defense probably can't be compared to that defense, but I have seen them dominating games against good teams like Atlanta and Rams. Their only loss lately has been against Carolina, which has a great D.
It's the best defense among the ones that are left and it's the most balanced one (Philadelphia or Carolina rely on their front 7, for example). They have best defense and a good offense (11th in the league), I prefer that than teams with a very good O and a bad D (like Pats, but they seem to have fixed that).
I'm not saying it's not the best defense. Most certainly is. But Ag was talking specifically about that 2015 team as a comparison for this Minnesota team, and I simply don't think it is. I think it can and will be had.
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It's not about being trascendent, it's about being effective.
Truly what Denver achieved in 2015 is outstanding. Peyton had an awful year and they even had to win some games with Osweiler under center. That offense semt like a joke and they could pull out wins with their defense. I was amazed at Superbowl L, I never thought you could win ONLY with defense.
Minnesota's defense probably can't be compared to that defense, but I have seen them dominating games against good teams like Atlanta and Rams. Their only loss lately has been against Carolina, which has a great D.
It's the best defense among the ones that are left and it's the most balanced one (Philadelphia or Carolina rely on their front 7, for example). They have best defense and a good offense (11th in the league), I prefer that than teams with a very good O and a bad D (like Pats, but they seem to have fixed that).
I'm not saying it's not the best defense. Most certainly is. But Ag was talking specifically about that 2015 team as a comparison for this Minnesota team, and I simply don't think it is. I think it can and will be had.
I'm not saying it's not the best defense. Most certainly is. But Ag was talking specifically about that 2015 team as a comparison for this Minnesota team, and I simply don't think it is. I think it can and will be had.
Well, I think that Ag mentioned Denver because it's the most obvious example of 'defense wins championships' and also the last one. Last year Superbowl was more about offensive teams, I'd say.
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It's not about being trascendent, it's about being effective.
Truly what Denver achieved in 2015 is outstanding. Peyton had an awful year and they even had to win some games with Osweiler under center. That offense semt like a joke and they could pull out wins with their defense. I was amazed at Superbowl L, I never thought you could win ONLY with defense.
Minnesota's defense probably can't be compared to that defense, but I have seen them dominating games against good teams like Atlanta and Rams. Their only loss lately has been against Carolina, which has a great D.
It's the best defense among the ones that are left and it's the most balanced one (Philadelphia or Carolina rely on their front 7, for example). They have best defense and a good offense (11th in the league), I prefer that than teams with a very good O and a bad D (like Pats, but they seem to have fixed that).
I'm not saying it's not the best defense. Most certainly is. But Ag was talking specifically about that 2015 team as a comparison for this Minnesota team, and I simply don't think it is. I think it can and will be had.
I'm not saying it's not the best defense. Most certainly is. But Ag was talking specifically about that 2015 team as a comparison for this Minnesota team, and I simply don't think it is. I think it can and will be had.
I used Denver as an example of defenses winning playoffs. I did not say Minn. had an defense that good, but they are a very fine defense capable of taking a team there, especially given they have a better offense than the '15 Denver team which relied on Ossie to get them there over a lot of the season and Peyton to provide "adequate" service to win the SB. They gave the MVP to the right guy.
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My wife's family would argue that any Championship before the SuperBowl era does not count. So, everything the Browns won before that era does not count, regardless of how much I try to argue. So to put it mildy, they even have me believing that our wins don't count. It's sick, but that's the way it is.
Your wife's family are fuyucking idiots.
Your wife's family are fuyucking idiots.
Hey, I'm with you on this one.
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THE MONDAY UPDATE from vegasinsider.com
NFL Future Odds
ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 SUPER BOWL LII (2/4/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 7/4 Minnesota Vikings 7/2 Pittsburgh Steelers 11/2 New Orleans Saints 6/1 Atlanta Falcons 15/2 Philadelphia Eagles 12/1 Jacksonville Jaguars 16/1 Tennessee Titans 40/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 4/7 Pittsburgh Steelers 9/4 Jacksonville Jaguars 8/1 Tennessee Titans 25/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 NFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds Minnesota Vikings 7/5 New Orleans Saints 11/4 Atlanta Falcons 15/4 Philadelphia Eagles 5/1 How To Bet NFL Futures
The “Odds to Win” wager in pro football is also commonly referred to as a future wager. Bettors must correctly select a team to win an event that takes place a later time. The money wagered will be tied up until there is an outcome and bettors will receive fixed odds when they place the wager. The future odds are normally updated on a weekly basis and wagers can be placed throughout the season.
To figure out your Win Amount, take the odds and multiply by the amount wagered. Ex. Green Bay (8/1) to win the NFC Championship. The Packers are listed as an 8/1 betting choice to win the NFC Championship. If you wager $100 on Green Bay to win the NFC and they capture the championship, then you would win $800 (8 ÷ 1 x 100). You would collect $900, which includes your win and stake ($100).
Odds provided by BetOnline.ag
Updated Mon, Jan. 8, 10:00 AM ETGO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
6 is not the operative number. The operative number is 13. Those are the number of Championship the Green Bay Packers have won. 6 doesn't even match the number of titles the Browns have won.
Packers 13
Bears 9
Browns/Giants 8 each.
The only thing being in the last 51 years with the expanded NFL it is much harder to win a championship and if you're under 58 or maybe 60 you've never experienced anything but the Super Bowl era. But we old farts older than 60 love to reminisce about the good old days and single bar helmets and all that stuff.
The only thing being in the last 51 years with the expanded NFL it is much harder to win a championship and if you're under 58 or maybe 60 you've never experienced anything but the Super Bowl era. But we old farts older than 60 love to reminisce about the good old days and single bar helmets and all that stuff.
Actually...it may be much easier now to win a Championship...in terms of a teams chances to win. What pct. of teams make the postseason? 12 out of 32 teams or 37.5%.
But take like 1964 or 1965....only 2 teams in the NFL made the postseason. That is 14.2% of the teams. You can't win the postseason if you don't get into the post season. And a team is now about 2.5 times more likely to make the post season than they were then.
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1964 season
Eastern Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Cleveland Browns 10 3 1 .769 415 293 St. Louis Cardinals 9 3 2 .750 357 331 Philadelphia Eagles 6 8 0 .429 312 313 Washington Redskins 6 8 0 .429 307 305 Dallas Cowboys 5 8 1 .385 250 289 Pittsburgh Steelers 5 9 0 .357 253 315 New York Giants 2 10 2 .167 241 399 Western Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Baltimore Colts 12 2 0 .857 428 225 Green Bay Packers 8 5 1 .615 342 245 Minnesota Vikings 8 5 1 .615 355 296 Detroit Lions 7 5 2 .583 280 260 Los Angeles Rams 5 7 2 .417 283 339 Chicago Bears 5 9 0 .357 260 379 San Francisco 49ers 4 10 0 .286 236 330 Back then your chances of being in the championship game are 1 in 7 in each division not 1 in 16 and after going through several rounds of elimination games. Plus if you were among the top one or two maybe three at most teams in each division is was much easier to play for the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Seven teams wouldn't even make up 2/3 of either the AFC or NFC, it's grueling now compared to then to win the championship.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
THE MONDAY UPDATE from vegasinsider.com
NFL Future Odds
ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 SUPER BOWL LII (2/4/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 7/4 Minnesota Vikings 7/2 Pittsburgh Steelers 11/2 New Orleans Saints 6/1 Atlanta Falcons 15/2 Philadelphia Eagles 12/1 Jacksonville Jaguars 16/1 Tennessee Titans 40/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 4/7 Pittsburgh Steelers 9/4 Jacksonville Jaguars 8/1 Tennessee Titans 25/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 NFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds Minnesota Vikings 7/5 New Orleans Saints 11/4 Atlanta Falcons 15/4 Philadelphia Eagles 5/1 How To Bet NFL Futures
The “Odds to Win” wager in pro football is also commonly referred to as a future wager. Bettors must correctly select a team to win an event that takes place a later time. The money wagered will be tied up until there is an outcome and bettors will receive fixed odds when they place the wager. The future odds are normally updated on a weekly basis and wagers can be placed throughout the season.
To figure out your Win Amount, take the odds and multiply by the amount wagered. Ex. Green Bay (8/1) to win the NFC Championship. The Packers are listed as an 8/1 betting choice to win the NFC Championship. If you wager $100 on Green Bay to win the NFC and they capture the championship, then you would win $800 (8 ÷ 1 x 100). You would collect $900, which includes your win and stake ($100).
Odds provided by BetOnline.ag
Updated Mon, Jan. 8, 10:00 AM ETTHE MONDAY UPDATE from vegasinsider.com
NFL Future Odds
ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 SUPER BOWL LII (2/4/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 7/4 Minnesota Vikings 7/2 Pittsburgh Steelers 11/2 New Orleans Saints 6/1 Atlanta Falcons 15/2 Philadelphia Eagles 12/1 Jacksonville Jaguars 16/1 Tennessee Titans 40/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds New England Patriots 4/7 Pittsburgh Steelers 9/4 Jacksonville Jaguars 8/1 Tennessee Titans 25/1 ODDS TO WIN 2017-18 NFC CHAMPIONSHIP (7/21/18)Team Odds Minnesota Vikings 7/5 New Orleans Saints 11/4 Atlanta Falcons 15/4 Philadelphia Eagles 5/1 The AFC looks like it's between our favorites the Belichick Bombers and the steelrz......but look out for the Jags.
The NFC looks a bit more up in the air. NE vs MIN Super Bowl LII?
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1964 season
Eastern Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Cleveland Browns 10 3 1 .769 415 293 St. Louis Cardinals 9 3 2 .750 357 331 Philadelphia Eagles 6 8 0 .429 312 313 Washington Redskins 6 8 0 .429 307 305 Dallas Cowboys 5 8 1 .385 250 289 Pittsburgh Steelers 5 9 0 .357 253 315 New York Giants 2 10 2 .167 241 399 Western Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Baltimore Colts 12 2 0 .857 428 225 Green Bay Packers 8 5 1 .615 342 245 Minnesota Vikings 8 5 1 .615 355 296 Detroit Lions 7 5 2 .583 280 260 Los Angeles Rams 5 7 2 .417 283 339 Chicago Bears 5 9 0 .357 260 379 San Francisco 49ers 4 10 0 .286 236 330 Back then your chances of being in the championship game are 1 in 7 in each division not 1 in 16 and after going through several rounds of elimination games. Plus if you were among the top one or two maybe three at most teams in each division is was much easier to play for the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Seven teams wouldn't even make up 2/3 of either the AFC or NFC, it's grueling now compared to then to win the championship.
1964 season
Eastern Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Cleveland Browns 10 3 1 .769 415 293 St. Louis Cardinals 9 3 2 .750 357 331 Philadelphia Eagles 6 8 0 .429 312 313 Washington Redskins 6 8 0 .429 307 305 Dallas Cowboys 5 8 1 .385 250 289 Pittsburgh Steelers 5 9 0 .357 253 315 New York Giants 2 10 2 .167 241 399 Western Conference Team W L T PCT PF PA Baltimore Colts 12 2 0 .857 428 225 Green Bay Packers 8 5 1 .615 342 245 Minnesota Vikings 8 5 1 .615 355 296 Detroit Lions 7 5 2 .583 280 260 Los Angeles Rams 5 7 2 .417 283 339 Chicago Bears 5 9 0 .357 260 379 San Francisco 49ers 4 10 0 .286 236 330 Back then your chances of being in the championship game are 1 in 7 in each division not 1 in 16 and after going through several rounds of elimination games. Plus if you were among the top one or two maybe three at most teams in each division is was much easier to play for the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Seven teams wouldn't even make up 2/3 of either the AFC or NFC, it's grueling now compared to then to win the championship.
For a team than to have had the same chance as now, they would have had to have had 6 teams make the playoffs.
You are also forgetting the AFL. There were 14 teams in the NFL....and 8 more in the AFL...a total of 22 teams, and only 4 made the playoffs
EastBuffalo Bills*1220.85740024215811.3-1.49.94.65.3Boston Patriots1031.769365297684.9-0.64.32.61.7New York Jets581.385278315-37-2.60.3-2.3-3.61.3Houston Oilers4100.286310355-45-3.20.4-2.8-0.8-2.0WestSan Diego Chargers*851.615341300412.9-0.42.60.91.7Kansas City Chiefs770.500366306604.3-0.53.82.81.0Oakland Raiders572.417303350-47-3.40.4-2.9-1.4-1.6Denver Broncos2111.154240438-198-14.11.8-12.4-5.1-7.3
So that brings it up to 18% of teams who make the playoffs, compared to 37.5 today. If you don't get in, you cannont win.
To illustrate it more dramatically.....IF the rules about making the playoffs were the same as they were in those days NONE of the following teams would have ever won the Super Bowl....
1980 Raiders
1997 Broncos
2000 Ravens
2005 Steelers
2007 Giants
2010 Packers
If you don't get in...you can't win...and these teams would have NEVER made the playoffs....and would never had a chance to win the title.
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You're reinforcing what I said 6 of 51 Super bowls were won by wild card teams out of 32 teams not 14 , much harder to even make it to the final two now.
Maybe we should set up a poll on this one and let everyone vote? Eh?
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You're reinforcing what I said 6 of 51 Super bowls were won by wild card teams out of 32 teams not 14 , much harder to even make it to the final two now.
Maybe we should set up a poll on this one and let everyone vote? Eh?
You're reinforcing what I said 6 of 51 Super bowls were won by wild card teams out of 32 teams not 14 , much harder to even make it to the final two now.
Maybe we should set up a poll on this one and let everyone vote? Eh?
No, polls like that are for fuyucking idjits. And, again...you are ignoring your own question, which is: Is it harder to win a championship now than then. Which question has to take into account the path that one must run to win that title. That path is now MUCH wider...and much easier to get on....even if it takes longer to negotiate that path.
Like the lottery...you can't win if you don't buy a ticket. A lot more teams are now allowed to buy tickets.
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Back then your chances of being in the championship game are 1 in 7 in each division not 1 in 16 and after going through several rounds of elimination games. Plus if you were among the top one or two maybe three at most teams in each division is was much easier to play for the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
(I've known quite a few, my brother and cousin were both baliffs while going to law school, my one brother's godfather was a judge, my neighbor in my last house was a judge, one brother did political signs for about 20 years many judges were clients, one guy and later his son who lived across the street were/are judges......and the real test I used to golf with lawyers, some were sitting judges, one cheated like hekl, but he was a relative
)
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Back then your chances of being in the championship game are 1 in 7 in each division not 1 in 16 and after going through several rounds of elimination games. Plus if you were among the top one or two maybe three at most teams in each division is was much easier to play for the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
(I've known quite a few, my brother and cousin were both baliffs while going to law school, my one brother's godfather was a judge, my neighbor in my last house was a judge, one brother did political signs for about 20 years many judges were clients, one guy and later his son who lived across the street were/are judges......and the real test I used to golf with lawyers, some were sitting judges, one cheated like hekl, but he was a relative
)
Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
1 out of 7 is a LOT harder than 6 out of 16....
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
By which you mean I talk sense and not nonsense, yes.
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Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
1 out of 7 is a LOT harder than 6 out of 16....
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
By which you mean I talk sense and not nonsense, yes.
Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
1 out of 7 is a LOT harder than 6 out of 16....
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
By which you mean I talk sense and not nonsense, yes.
NO, it's 1/7 or 1/16 each year, the 6 were wild cards over the WC era! (Oh and the of the 6 playoff teams only 1 still makes it in)
........oh and I still like you.
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Uh....fuyuck NO. ONLY the TOP ONE made the postseason...see below.
Yes only the TOP ONE makes it in either 7 or 16......which is harder 7 or 16?
1 out of 7 is a LOT harder than 6 out of 16....
Geeezzz Gip you talk like a lawyer or judge.
By which you mean I talk sense and not nonsense, yes.
NO, it's 1/7 or 1/16 each year, the 6 were wild cards over the WC era! (Oh and the of the 6 playoff teams only 1 still makes it in)
........oh and I still like you.
NO, it's 1/7 or 1/16 each year, the 6 were wild cards over the WC era! (Oh and the of the 6 playoff teams only 1 still makes it in)
........oh and I still like you.
But....again....it is an easier path to get there. If you are a WC...you have a chance to win the SB......6 have done it since 1980. And 5 have done it the last 20 years. That is 1/4th of all winners. If you don't get in you chances of NOT winning the SB are exactly 100%.
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NO, it's 1/7 or 1/16 each year, the 6 were wild cards over the WC era! (Oh and the of the 6 playoff teams only 1 still makes it in)
........oh and I still like you.
But....again....it is an easier path to get there. If you are a WC...you have a chance to win the SB......6 have done it since 1980. And 5 have done it the last 20 years. That is 1/4th of all winners. If you don't get in you chances of NOT winning the SB are exactly 100%.
But....again....it is an easier path to get there. If you are a WC...you have a chance to win the SB......6 have done it since 1980. And 5 have done it the last 20 years. That is 1/4th of all winners. If you don't get in you chances of NOT winning the SB are exactly 100%.
Easier path through a series of physically draining games and after a 16 game season not 12 or 14 to end up with two teams? I don't think so.
Motion to adjourn!
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Oh FYI for what it's worth, I remember when this game was played for pride AND supplimental cash for the players......and after the Super Bowl. Now it's like does anybody have a helmet and want to play?
01/28 3:00 PM
497 AFC
498 NFC
51½u-10
PK -10
51½u-10
-2½ -10
TV: ESPN, DTV: 206
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