NFL.com's Pre-Combine grades are out...

[The Gipper]

@texasag1969 said:

Bo Jackson? Seriously?

I really liked Fornette and thought he would be a good pro, but I got to see Bo Jackson live against my Aggies in the Cotton Bowl. I have not seen anyone like that before or since. Fornette has his power and a 5th gear, but Jackson had some serious speed that on a couple of plays made our very fast defense look like they were swimming in molasses. Fornette had a 4.51 40 at the combine. Jackson says he had a 4.13 and refutes he ran 4.12 as others claim. Now that is just plain world class speed.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14869826

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

[Nero]

@the-gipper said:

How do these QBs compare to last year's  top group of QBs in grades.

I have said all along that I believe it is possible that last year may in fact have been the superior class of QBs.  How do they compare?

I haven't found it, but I remember that the top ranked was at most 5.9 or something like that.

[mjp28]

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

Bo knows how to play anything and at a high level, best all around athlete I've ever seen. 

Strangly Bo and I had/have the same/similar hip problem his through trama mine through infection the top of the femur.

Avascular necrosis (AVN) of the femoral head is a pathologic process that results from interruption of blood supply to the bone. AVN of the hip is poorly understood, but this process is the final common pathway of traumatic or nontraumatic factors that compromise the already precarious circulation of the femoral head. Femoral head ischemia results in the death of marrow and osteocytes and usually results in the collapse of the necrotic segment.

......That's where our physical comparisons end. 

[The Gipper]

@nero said:

I haven't found it, but I remember that the top ranked was at most 5.9 or something like that.

That is not how I remember it....in fact, I though Trubisky had been like the highest rated coming out since Luck...or something.

[TexasAg1969]

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

In person is what I was referring to, but yeah I'd give you Jim Brown.

Man what Jackson could have been without the leg injury!

[The Gipper]

@texasag1969 said:

In person is what I was referring to, but yeah I'd give you Jim Brown.

Man what Jackson could have been without the leg injury!

Did I see Jim Brown in person...no.  Never went to a game when I was that young....but on TV many times...live.

[Tour2ma]

@calfoxwc said:

what do I know. It says he has a significant long wind up - I never even noticed. That could account for the many fumbles.

If you watch tape, you cannot help but notice his wind up.

Fumbles? Yes, but also INTs. Longer motion = slower release = better jump by DBs.

@sd_tom said:

So they should take this highest graded player,  but Garrett was a horrible pick even though he was the highest graded player? 

Makes perfect sense 

Early post of the year candidate.

[Tour2ma]

Always interesting to see the silliness that flows from NFL.com grades...

There is no telling at how these subjective "grades" are arrived. Certainly the comments do not always align with the grades. Here are the opening lines of two different QB prospects' Strength analyses...

• "Has desired NFL size."
• "... impeccable footwork and delivery balance."

I do not "get" how you start the higher ranked guy with a size comment. And the kicker? The "desired size" guy is 6'4 220. The other guy is 6'4 218.

Then there's the straight out inaccuracies. No one who watched Darnold's 2017 tape can say, "Trusts his pocket and keeps eyes down the field." At least they can't say it with a straight face.

[The Gipper]

Here are....I think, last year's group of QBs grades.

Trubisky given a higher grade than anyone this year except Darnold..

PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	COLLEGE	PICK	TEAM	GRADE	WATCH
	Trubisky, Mitchell	QB	6'2"	222	North Carolina	Pick 2, Round 1 (2)	Bears	6.3
	Watson, Deshaun	QB	6'2"	221	Clemson	Pick 12, Round 1 (12)	Texans	5.9
	Mahomes, Patrick	QB	6'2"	225	Texas Tech	Pick 10, Round 1 (10)	Chiefs	5.8
	Kizer, DeShone	QB	6'4"	233	Notre Dame	Pick 20, Round 2 (52)	Browns	5.7
	Peterman, Nathan	QB	6'2"	226	Pittsburgh	Pick 28, Round 5 (171)	Bills	5.7
	Kaaya, Brad	QB	6'4"	214	Miami	Pick 32, Round 6 (215)	Lions	5.5
	Webb, Davis	QB	6'5"	229	California	Pick 23, Round 3 (87)	Giants	5.4
	Kelly, Chad	QB	6'2"	224	Mississippi	Pick 35, Round 7 (253)	Broncos	5.4
	Dobbs, Joshua	QB	6'3"	216	Tennessee	Pick 29, Round 4 (135)	Steelers	5.3
	Beathard, C.J.	QB	6'2"	219	Iowa	Pick 40, Round 3 (104)	49ers	5.0

[hoorta]

@the-gipper said:

You can Google X-player nfl grade and get answers 

What was Tom Brady? 

Not sure Gip- but you can probably bet it was down in the 5s somewhere.  They changed how they rate players a few years ago. Went from a 100 point scale to  a 10 point scale. When I looked up Andrew Luck, they had him rated as a 97. Does that mean 9.7 on the current scale? If it does, it meant the scouts thought Andy could walk on water.  

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

And remember, Ag is older than you.  

@the-gipper said:

Did I see Jim Brown in person...no.  Never went to a game when I was that young....but on TV many times...live.

Was lucky enough to see Jim play many times in person at the stadium. Grandpa held some purchasing power at TRW, and vendors used to schmooze him with Browns & Indians tickets. Plus the guy who lived across the street from him had season tickets, and would give them to us teenage kids when he had to work Sunday.   

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

Always interesting to see the silliness that flows from NFL.com grades...

There is no telling at how these subjective "grades" are arrived. Certainly the comments do not always align with the grades. Here are the opening lines of two different QB prospects' Strength analyses...

• "Has desired NFL size."
• "... impeccable footwork and delivery balance."

I do not "get" how you start the higher ranked guy with a size comment. And the kicker? The "desired size" guy is 6'4 220. The other guy is 6'4 218.

Then there's the straight out inaccuracies. No one who watched Darnold's 2017 tape can say, "Trusts his pocket and keeps eyes down the field." At least they can't say it with a straight face.

See my previous post.   Darnold given a better grade than anyone last year....plus, based on the grade you posted, his 7.1 being far and away better than anyone else of this class.....you would think he would be a No Brainer.....almost Luckish.  But...does anyone really see that in him?  I don't.  I will be honest...I didn't see a lot of him.....and the one time I did...he was getting ragdolled by the Ohio State defense.  Maybe that is not a fair thing to judge him on...but it was the most exposure of him that I saw....and I did not see a No Brainer. At all.

[The Gipper]

Getting lazy, or just too busy to look it up? Trubisky 6.31, Watson 5.98, already said Kizer 5.78 

Just was not sure I knew where to find it...but I did. See above.

[hoorta]

@the-gipper said:

Getting lazy, or just too busy to look it up? Trubisky 6.31, Watson 5.98, already said Kizer 5.78 

Just was not sure I knew where to find it...but I did. See above.

Yeah, I was typing when you put up those numbers.. sorry about that- I deleted the comment....   

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

Links work to individual Bio's...

QBs:

Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	College			Grade	Watch
	DARNOLD, SAM	QB	6'4"	220	USC			7.1
	ROSEN, JOSH	QB	6'4"	218	UCLA			6.1
	JACKSON, LAMAR*	QB	6'3"	200	Louisville			6.0
	MAYFIELD, BAKER	QB	6'1"	220	Oklahoma			6.0
	ALLEN, JOSH	QB	6'5"	233	Wyoming			5.9
	FALK, LUKE	QB	6'4"	225	Washington St.			5.6
	RUDOLPH, MASON	QB	6'5"	230	Oklahoma St.			5.6
	WHITE, MIKE	QB	6'4"	225	Western Kentucky			5.2
	FERGUSON, RILEY	QB	6'4"	210	Memphis			5.1
	BENKERT, KURT	QB	6'4"	215	Virginia			5.1
	BRISCOE, JEREMIAH	QB	6'3"	225	Sam Houston St.			5.0
	FLOWERS, QUINTON	QB	6'0"	210	South Florida			5.0
	LEE, TANNER*	QB	6'4"	220	Nebraska			5.0
	SHIMONEK, NIC	QB	6'3"	225	Texas Tech			4.9
	BARRETT, J.T.	QB	6'2"	220	Ohio St.			4.9
	SILVERS, BRANDON	QB	6'2"	218	Troy			4.8
	STEVENS, NICK	QB	6'3"	215	Colorado St.			4.8
	LAULETTA, KYLE	QB	6'3"	215	Richmond			4.8

Top 25:

BARKLEY, SAQUON*	RB	5'11"	223	Penn St.			7.5
	NELSON, QUENTON*	G	6'5"	329	Notre Dame			7.4
	EDMUNDS, TREMAINE*	LB	6'5"	250	Virginia Tech			7.2
	CHUBB, BRADLEY	DE	6'4"	275	N.C. State			7.2
	DARNOLD, SAM	QB	6'4"	220	USC			7.1
	RIDLEY, CALVIN*	WR	6'1"	190	Alabama			7.0
	PAYNE, DA'RON	DT	6'2"	308	Alabama			6.6
	SMITH, ROQUAN*	LB	6'1"	225	Georgia			6.5
	VEA, VITA*	DT	6'4"	344	Washington			6.5
	FITZPATRICK, MINKAH	DB	6'1"	201	Alabama			6.5
	JAMES, DERWIN	DB	6'3"	215	Florida St.			6.4
	EVANS, RASHAAN	LB	6'3"	234	Alabama			6.2
	LANDRY, HAROLD	OLB	6'3"	250	Boston College			6.2
	BROWN, ORLANDO*	OT	6'8"	360	Oklahoma			6.2
	ROSEN, JOSH	QB	6'4"	218	UCLA			6.1
	JACKSON, JOSH	CB	6'1"	192	Iowa			6.1
	WARD, DENZEL*	CB	5'10"	191	Ohio St.			6.1
	HERNANDEZ, WILL	OG	6'2"	348	Texas-El Paso			6.1
	JACKSON, LAMAR*	QB	6'3"	200	Louisville			6.0
	MCGLINCHEY, MIKE	OT	6'8"	312	Notre Dame			6.0
	DANIELS, JAMES*	C	6'4"	295	Iowa			6.0
	MAYFIELD, BAKER	QB	6'1"	220	Oklahoma			6.0
	WYNN, ISAIAH	OG	6'2"	300	Georgia			5.9
	ALLEN, JOSH	QB	6'5"	233	Wyoming			5.9
	HURST, MAURICE	DT	6'2"	282	Michigan St.			5.9

It appears that they have a few more higher rated players than last year...but last year had more 6.0 rated players.   Last year only one player above 7.0. This year there are 5. 

Garrett, Myles	DE	6'4"	272	Texas A&M	Pick 1, Round 1 (1)	Browns	7.6
	Thomas, Solomon	DE	6'3"	273	Stanford	Pick 3, Round 1 (3)	49ers	6.8
	Allen, Jonathan	DE	6'3"	286	Alabama	Pick 17, Round 1 (17)	Redskins	6.8
	Fournette, Leonard	RB	6'0"	240	LSU	Pick 4, Round 1 (4)	Jaguars	6.8
	Hooker, Malik	S	6'1"	206	Ohio St.	Pick 15, Round 1 (15)	Colts	6.7
	Adams, Jamal	S	6'0"	214	LSU	Pick 6, Round 1 (6)	Jets	6.6
	Lattimore, Marshon	CB	6'0"	193	Ohio St.	Pick 11, Round 1 (11)	Saints	6.5
	Howard, O.J.	TE	6'6"	251	Alabama	Pick 19, Round 1 (19)	Buccaneers	6.5
	Charlton, Taco	DE	6'6"	277	Michigan	Pick 28, Round 1 (28)	Cowboys	6.3
	Njoku, David	TE	6'4"	246	Miami	Pick 29, Round 1 (29)	Browns	6.3
	Reddick, Haason	LB	6'1"	237	Temple	Pick 13, Round 1 (13)	Cardinals	6.3
	Foster, Reuben	LB	6'0"	229	Alabama	Pick 31, Round 1 (31)	49ers	6.3
	Trubisky, Mitchell	QB	6'2"	222	North Carolina	Pick 2, Round 1 (2)	Bears	6.3
	Williams, Mike	WR	6'4"	218	Clemson	Pick 7, Round 1 (7)	Chargers	6.2
	Cook, Dalvin	RB	5'10"	210	Florida St.	Pick 9, Round 2 (41)	Vikings	6.2
	Davis, Corey	WR	6'3"	209	Western Michigan	Pick 5, Round 1 (5)	Titans	6.2
	McDowell, Malik	DT	6'6"	295	Michigan St.	Pick 3, Round 2 (35)	Seahawks	6.2
	McKinley, Takkarist	DE	6'2"	250	UCLA	Pick 26, Round 1 (26)	Falcons	6.2
	Ramczyk, Ryan	OT	6'6"	310	Wisconsin	Pick 32, Round 1 (32)	Saints	6.2
	Lamp, Forrest	OG	6'4"	309	Western Kentucky	Pick 6, Round 2 (38)	Chargers	6.2
	Barnett, Derek	DE	6'3"	259	Tennessee	Pick 14, Round 1 (14)	Eagles	6.1
	Ross, John	WR	5'11"	188	Washington	Pick 9, Round 1 (9)	Bengals	6.1
	Humphrey, Marlon	CB	6'0"	197	Alabama	Pick 16, Round 1 (16)	Ravens	6.1
	Brantley, Caleb	DT	6'3"	307	Florida	Pick 1, Round 6 (185)	Browns	6.1
	Robinson, Cam	OT	6'6"	322	Alabama	Pick 2, Round 2 (34)	Jaguars	6.0

[The Gipper]

What about this guy....he is rated the third best recruit on this NFL.com grade.   Is he a MLB or an OLB?

I mean...I think we could use a pure OLB.    We have what I consider to be 3 MLBs playing the 3 LB spots:  Kirksey, Schobert, Collins. 

LB

TREMAINE EDMUNDS

VIRGINIA TECH  ACC

 

 

 

 

 View Prospects By Name By Position By College By Grade 

GRADE

7.28?

 

• 6'5"HEIGHT
• 250LBS.WEIGHT

OVERVIEW

Edmunds is the son of Ferrell Edmunds, a two-time Pro Bowler at tight end with Miami (1989-90). Three of Ferrell's sons actually signed not with his alma mater of Maryland, but with the Hokies (though the oldest, Trey, transferred to play running back at Maryland for his final season in 2016). Tremaine and his brother, Terrell (safety), are now leaders on Tech's defense. One of the top linebacker recruits in the country, Tremaine played in 13 games as a true freshman, starting twice, recording 11 tackles on the year. His 2.5 tackles for loss came against Tulsa in the Independence Bowl, portending his successful sophomore year. Edmunds, who is tall and long for a stack linebacker, attacked open lanes to become a second-team All-ACC pick in 2016, starting 14 times and compiling 106 tackles, 18.5 for loss, 4.5 sacks. He had an interception in the team’s Belk Bowl appearance against Arkansas. NFL scouts loved what they saw from Edmunds as a junior, as did the Associated Press, who named him third-team All-American. He was also a first-team All-ACC selection in 2017, recording a team-high 109 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, and three forced fumbles.

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

 Unique size with long limbs and a rangy frame. Wears his weight with ease. Frame is destined to become even more imposing with additional weight work. Feet pump and trigger like pistons. Excellent lateral quickness to scrape and stalk. Uses his size and speed to cast a wide, playmaking net and cover large swaths of grass. Twitches for a second when it is time to make a play. Spins out of blocks to find his way back into the play. Combines length with rare reactive athleticism and agility to access and tackle opportunities from unconventional angles. Captures and finishes as a tackler at highly efficient rate. Elite traits help to create sensational production across the board. Disruptive in all phases. Electric as "add-on" rusher when back stays in. Has length and burst to affect pocket as edge rusher. Effective man cover talent with ability to match shifty running backs and bulky tight ends.

WEAKNESSES

 Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts. Can be a step slow to diagnose. Lured by misdirection. Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire. Patience is lacking. Races ahead of plays and voids his leverage and run fits at times. Needs to add more upper and lower body strength. Average base strength and high center of gravity create issues holding up at the point of attack. Needs to be quicker to punch in order to maintain clearance. Mental busts in man coverage hurt his team. Takes time to process moving pieces.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 1

SOURCES TELL US

 "Good luck with your player comp on this one. They don't come like him. I don't think there has ever been a linebacker that has had his size and speed. You're better off comping him with a basketball player." -- NFC regional scout

NFL COMPARISON

 Brian Urlacher

Or...with this comparison does this mean that he is pretty much also an MLB?

BOTTOM LINE

 Edmunds combines elite size, speed and explosiveness into a productive, versatile linebacker package that will have evaluators salivating. Edmunds has posted high-impact production over the last two seasons and he still has room to get bigger and better. Edmunds will make mental mistakes and his instincts are subpar, but he has an ability to mitigate those issues with his athletic ability. Edmunds can play in any alignment at any linebacker spot and has All-Pro potential no matter where he lands. -Lance Zierlein

[Tour2ma]

The one guy who quietly slipped into the top group in this ranking is Calvin Ridley. I thought he belonged, but hadn't been seeing a lot of "lists" putting him in the discussion for our 4th pick.

[Canton Mike]

@tour2ma said:

The one guy who quietly slipped into the top group in this ranking is Calvin Ridley. I thought he belonged, but hadn't been seeing a lot of "lists" putting him in the discussion for our 4th pick.

Glad to see that. I figured Ridley may have been somewhat overlooked due to his QB & not being utilized enough.

Mike

[LogicIsForSquares]

“Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move.”

I had not seen that stat about Rosen. Any of the pro-Rosen folks concerned about that stat? 

[TexasAg1969]

@logicisforsquares said:

“Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move.”

I had not seen that stat about Rosen. Any of the pro-Rosen folks concerned about that stat? 

Not really. "Forced to move" has to mean out of the pocket and Rosen's top asset is his ability to move all around in the pocket and climb it as he senses people closing in. He's not a happy feet guy like Darnold and Allen. He makes the pocket work for him just like you want to see out of a pro QB. Mayfield is a tweener in that he tends to stay in it, but quickly will run keeping his eyes downfield as he approaches the LOS.

[LogicIsForSquares]

@texasag1969 said:

Not really. "Forced to move" has to mean out of the pocket and Rosen's top asset is his ability to move all around in the pocket and climb it as he senses people closing in. He's not a happy feet guy like Darnold and Allen. He makes the pocket work for him just like you want to see out of a pro QB. Mayfield is a tweener in that he tends to stay in it, but quickly will run keeping his eyes downfield as he approaches the LOS.

I think figuring out what they mean by "forced to move" would help things a bit. If they mean when he has to move up in the pocket etc. then I take pause. If they mean, when having to roll out, still not pleased but not shi-tting glass over it.