From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen
-
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
How was Ben's accuracy before the draft?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
How was Ben's accuracy before the draft?
WSS
How was Ben's accuracy before the draft?
Good enough that he was pretty easy to see coming...
Pushing 70% in the early 2000's was a much bigger deal than it is today.
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Miami (OH) 854 1304 65.5 10829 8.3 8.4 84 34 151.3 2001 Miami (OH) MAC FR QB 12 241 381 63.3 3105 8.1 7.9 25 13 146.5 2002 Miami (OH) MAC SO QB 12 271 428 63.3 3238 7.6 7.4 22 11 138.7 *2003 Miami (OH) MAC JR QB 14 342 495 69.1 4486 9.1 9.6 37 10 165.8 -
How was Ben's accuracy before the draft?
Good enough that he was pretty easy to see coming...
Pushing 70% in the early 2000's was a much bigger deal than it is today.
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Miami (OH) 854 1304 65.5 10829 8.3 8.4 84 34 151.3 2001 Miami (OH) MAC FR QB 12 241 381 63.3 3105 8.1 7.9 25 13 146.5 2002 Miami (OH) MAC SO QB 12 271 428 63.3 3238 7.6 7.4 22 11 138.7 *2003 Miami (OH) MAC JR QB 14 342 495 69.1 4486 9.1 9.6 37 10 165.8 Good enough that he was pretty easy to see coming...
Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Miami (OH) 854 1304 65.5 10829 8.3 8.4 84 34 151.3 2001 Miami (OH) MAC FR QB 12 241 381 63.3 3105 8.1 7.9 25 13 146.5 2002 Miami (OH) MAC SO QB 12 271 428 63.3 3238 7.6 7.4 22 11 138.7 *2003 Miami (OH) MAC JR QB 14 342 495 69.1 4486 9.1 9.6 37 10 165.8 Exactly. Which is where the comparisons toJosh Allen cease to align.
WSS
-
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
Right, but unless I'm mistaken the only one AFTER ben you noted was Bortles (meh) Flacco (who I would argue isn't in this conversation) and cam who I missed. So wentz and cam leads you to two QBs over a decade who fit the "big and burly" mold like ben did out of college. To me that's more than a coincidence and shows a trend of where the nfl has gone the past 10, 12 years.
-
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
Yes, and oh so many of those BIG QBs have been long tall piles of suckitude:
Jamarcus Russell 6/6 260
Leinert 6/5 230
Vince Young 6/5 235
Josh Feeman 6/6 245
Weeden 6/4 230
Tannehill 6/4 230
EJ Manuel 6/5 240
Paxton Lynch 6'7 245
and those are just first rounders.
-
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
Right, but unless I'm mistaken the only one AFTER ben you noted was Bortles (meh) Flacco (who I would argue isn't in this conversation) and cam who I missed. So wentz and cam leads you to two QBs over a decade who fit the "big and burly" mold like ben did out of college. To me that's more than a coincidence and shows a trend of where the nfl has gone the past 10, 12 years.
Right, but unless I'm mistaken the only one AFTER ben you noted was Bortles (meh) Flacco (who I would argue isn't in this conversation) and cam who I missed. So wentz and cam leads you to two QBs over a decade who fit the "big and burly" mold like ben did out of college. To me that's more than a coincidence and shows a trend of where the nfl has gone the past 10, 12 years.
What do you consider "burley"....all the guys in my above post are at least 6/4 and 230.
-
We talked late last year about Kizer, so we all miss. Or they missed on coaching a kid up? Am thinking the card reads Darnold..Unless Haley & Hue want to take on the Rosen mind challenge game..agree on Allen's potential, but Hue may never see it in time..maybe Dorsey does?
We talked late last year about Kizer, so we all miss. Or they missed on coaching a kid up? Am thinking the card reads Darnold..Unless Haley & Hue want to take on the Rosen mind challenge game..agree on Allen's potential, but Hue may never see it in time..maybe Dorsey does?
Hated Kizer from the get-go, thought he sucked at ND, and he didn't disappoint me on the Browns.
-
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
You know someone was talking to mr the other day and it really got me thinking.
We keep saying we want a guy like big Ben, and the comparisons to Allen are obvious. But when you think about it, since ben and before Wentz how much guys like big Ben have actually turned out to be franchise guys? It's an interesting thought experiment cause in my head I got no one. I think, as I've noted before, is a signal of how the game is changing.
It was mentioned previously but probably the best comparison to Allen in the pros is Cam Newton. Though Camshaft is 1" taller and 25 pounds heavier. Career 58.5% completions and 85 QBR.
As Tour pointed out (and I knew all along) comparing Roethlisberger's accuracy to Allen's in college is a joke. If Josh was completing his passes at a 65% clip, he'd be in the Andrew Luck lock #1 category.
-
We talked late last year about Kizer, so we all miss. Or they missed on coaching a kid up? Am thinking the card reads Darnold..Unless Haley & Hue want to take on the Rosen mind challenge game..agree on Allen's potential, but Hue may never see it in time..maybe Dorsey does?
Hated Kizer from the get-go, thought he sucked at ND, and he didn't disappoint me on the Browns.
-
We talked late last year about Kizer, so we all miss. Or they missed on coaching a kid up? Am thinking the card reads Darnold..Unless Haley & Hue want to take on the Rosen mind challenge game..agree on Allen's potential, but Hue may never see it in time..maybe Dorsey does?
Hated Kizer from the get-go, thought he sucked at ND, and he didn't disappoint me on the Browns.
Hated Kizer from the get-go, thought he sucked at ND, and he didn't disappoint me on the Browns.
and you might be right but the caution light came on when Dorsey thinks Hue needs talent. Offensive talent clearly. Am more disappointed with Hue's use of Kizer with no other choice behind him. Falls on Sashi too. We'll see who GB tries to slide to PS Kizer or his twin from UCLA Hunley
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Hated Kizer from the get-go, thought he sucked at ND, and he didn't disappoint me on the Browns.
and you might be right but the caution light came on when Dorsey thinks Hue needs talent. Offensive talent clearly. Am more disappointed with Hue's use of Kizer with no other choice behind him. Falls on Sashi too. We'll see who GB tries to slide to PS Kizer or his twin from UCLA Hunley
and you might be right but the caution light came on when Dorsey thinks Hue needs talent. Offensive talent clearly. Am more disappointed with Hue's use of Kizer with no other choice behind him. Falls on Sashi too. We'll see who GB tries to slide to PS Kizer or his twin from UCLA Hunley
It would be pretty amazing for the Packers to try and slide a second round pick to the practice squad. Or does it mean Hue and whoever drafted him in the second round should have waited until the 4th? It's the same crazy thing I'm seeing with Allen. Josh's one special trait has him being touted around 90 slots too high.
-
Speaking of thought experiments, I’ve been floating this one around the office. Apologies if it’s been discussed, I’ve been gone.
This is a year where there’s really no consensus #1 but four or five potential first round guys with either great resumes or abnormal physical tools. What is holding each prospect back from being the consensus #1?
What I get is:
For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
There's always been "big QBs" in the league who have been their franchise's guy for periods of time...
In the old NFL Roman Gabriel springs to mind... Joe Kapp and Bobby Douglas as well, although the latters' skills were marginal.
More recently? At 6'4, 260+ Dante Culpepper may be the best example.
Today? Cam obviously... and there are a number of "large" QBs that don't play all that "big"... e.g., Flacco, Bortles, Rivers...
Right, but unless I'm mistaken the only one AFTER ben you noted was Bortles (meh) Flacco (who I would argue isn't in this conversation) and cam who I missed. So wentz and cam leads you to two QBs over a decade who fit the "big and burly" mold like ben did out of college. To me that's more than a coincidence and shows a trend of where the nfl has gone the past 10, 12 years.
Right, but unless I'm mistaken the only one AFTER ben you noted was Bortles (meh) Flacco (who I would argue isn't in this conversation) and cam who I missed. So wentz and cam leads you to two QBs over a decade who fit the "big and burly" mold like ben did out of college. To me that's more than a coincidence and shows a trend of where the nfl has gone the past 10, 12 years.
Not following... what trend are you referring to?
Today Ben's pretty much alone when it comes to a history of defenders hanging off of him as he throws. Even the Camster goes down if he's wrapped up. Culpepper was very much in the Ben mold (or Ben's in his). Wentz (who I overlooked) may be there, but he has more elusiveness that Ben ever did and may be more like a young Dante.
The other QBs with size don't play that big. Actually surprised me to see Rivers is 6'5 and 230-ish. And that's the vein in which I mentioned Flacco and Bortles.
-
Speaking of thought experiments, I’ve been floating this one around the office. Apologies if it’s been discussed, I’ve been gone.
This is a year where there’s really no consensus #1 but four or five potential first round guys with either great resumes or abnormal physical tools. What is holding each prospect back from being the consensus #1?
What I get is:
For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
Speaking of thought experiments, I’ve been floating this one around the office. Apologies if it’s been discussed, I’ve been gone.
This is a year where there’s really no consensus #1 but four or five potential first round guys with either great resumes or abnormal physical tools. What is holding each prospect back from being the consensus #1?
What I get is:
- For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
- For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
- For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
- For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
- For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
Been discussed piecemeal, but not as an organized experiment to my recollection...
- Rosen's concussion has been more of a universal thing while personality has been ~32%.
- Darnold? At least for me it's general mechanics.
- Allen... for me a combo of issues that don't add up to NFL-grade QB.
- Baker... height plus a hint of a$$hole.
- Jackson... a running QB.
-
Speaking of thought experiments, I’ve been floating this one around the office. Apologies if it’s been discussed, I’ve been gone.
This is a year where there’s really no consensus #1 but four or five potential first round guys with either great resumes or abnormal physical tools. What is holding each prospect back from being the consensus #1?
What I get is:
For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
.......What I get is:
For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
YES, we have a BINGO! Welcome to the 2018 NFL QB Draft, but with all of the teams in the hunt for warm bodies wearing the small uniform numbers they will go quick.....I guess.
Ironically it is a pretty loaded draft outside of that. Too bad the BROWNS have to
waste, blow, throw awayuse a #1 pick on one.I need a new dead horse, mine has turned into dust.
-
.......What I get is:
For Rosen, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for his personality and concussion concerns.
For Darnold, he’d be the consensus #1 if not for an elongated windup and a less-than-stellar final year.
For Allen, he’d be the consensus #1 if his career completion percentage was 5% better.
For Mayfield, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were three inches taller.
For Jackson, he’d be the consensus #1 if he were heavier and slightly more accurate.
YES, we have a BINGO! Welcome to the 2018 NFL QB Draft, but with all of the teams in the hunt for warm bodies wearing the small uniform numbers they will go quick.....I guess.
Ironically it is a pretty loaded draft outside of that. Too bad the BROWNS have to
waste, blow, throw awayuse a #1 pick on one.I need a new dead horse, mine has turned into dust.
YES, we have a BINGO! Welcome to the 2018 NFL QB Draft, but with all of the teams in the hunt for warm bodies wearing the small uniform numbers they will go quick.....I guess.
Ironically it is a pretty loaded draft outside of that. Too bad the BROWNS have to
waste, blow, throw awayuse a #1 pick on one.I need a new dead horse, mine has turned into dust.
Here ya go!
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Who had time to coach him up or down or sideways?
Precisely. That's like hearing the WRs with dropsies entering the draft are just going to get coached up in Cleveland all the way up until our next example of "easier said than done" with Corey Coleman.
-
Precisely. That's like hearing the WRs with dropsies entering the draft are just going to get coached up in Cleveland all the way up until our next example of "easier said than done" with Corey Coleman.
Yes and is there and cure at the professional level when you're wide open looking directly at the quarterback and the ball hits you in the hands with a chance to beat a division rival and possibly avoid a winless season.
I'll give you two seconds to think it over. D'OH!
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
YES, we have a BINGO! Welcome to the 2018 NFL QB Draft, but with all of the teams in the hunt for warm bodies wearing the small uniform numbers they will go quick.....I guess.
Ironically it is a pretty loaded draft outside of that. Too bad the BROWNS have to
waste, blow, throw awayuse a #1 pick on one.I need a new dead horse, mine has turned into dust.
Here ya go!
Mike
Thanks Mike, I need a Dead Horse..We took Coleman at #15..We took Cam Terd'ing at #19..We got a 5th rounder from KC trading Erving..Is trading Coleman worth biting that kind of bullet? Sign me up maybe if could get any kind 3rd? where do we fold are tents & keep Coleman? (topic alert..Josh Allen what do you think?)
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login