*GAMEDAY THREADS* Eagles & Lions
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Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.
I think that’s a good observation. It’s also something l thought he was really good at based on some college film l watched, that he had a knack for deception with fakes and where he might be throwing the ball.
My theory is the pocket is tighter and things happen more quickly in the NFL, so he feels like he’s pressed for time and has taken out some of the extra movements that made him so good at deception in college.
Maybe as he gets more comfortable the game will slow down enough to where he can find where he can incorporate those things again.
I think that’s a good observation. It’s also something l thought he was really good at based on some college film l watched, that he had a knack for deception with fakes and where he might be throwing the ball.
My theory is the pocket is tighter and things happen more quickly in the NFL, so he feels like he’s pressed for time and has taken out some of the extra movements that made him so good at deception in college.
Maybe as he gets more comfortable the game will slow down enough to where he can find where he can incorporate those things again.
I also think it has to do with the design of the play action Baker is being asked to carry out now vs college.
With OU it was a lot of lateral stuff and misdirection. In the NFL you're being asked to ball action north/south and trust that your backs pick up interior pressure if you have anybody pull for the additional sell.
Another reason why I think Tyrod having the bulk of the time with the 1's is a big deal, Mayfield still needs to get comfortable with not only the quality and timing of his fake, but also that footwork from under center was still a bit shoddy at times vs the Iggles.
Good man for Baker to watch is Brady. He has (imho) the best action fake in the NFL anymore.
Another young(er) QB to take a note from is Luck. The initial step is tight, the sutble motion of dropping his shoulder, using only one hand as opposed to two (a very big deal) and admire how quick that pivot is and how fast Andrew's head is around while finishing his drop. That is textbook stuff.
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Zombo said:
In fact, I was out of the conversation and had accepted your responses until you felt the need to double down and call both Cal and I "Retarded"
I call you both 'Retarded' because it was deserved for putting words into my mouth. If you want to move on from that, I extend the olive branch.
I call you both 'Retarded' because it was deserved for putting words into my mouth. If you want to move on from that, I extend the olive branch.
I didn't put any words in your mouth, still working off of your original statement: "Off topic - Chubb. Not feeling his running style or vision so far. I have serious concerns. Dayes is still my #2 guy. "
We disagree. I'm OK with Chubb so far, and he's still being coached up. He's a much better back than Dayes IMO. Dayes is #4. If he were #2 we'd be in trouble. His closest competition is Dontrell Hilliard, he is not in the conversation with the Big 3.
Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion ... I just think it's dead wrong, that's why I jumped on it ... that's what we do here. If Dayes makes a key contribution to this team this year I will look you up and give you props. There's your branch.
Zombo
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I call you both 'Retarded' because it was deserved for putting words into my mouth. If you want to move on from that, I extend the olive branch.
I didn't put any words in your mouth, still working off of your original statement: "Off topic - Chubb. Not feeling his running style or vision so far. I have serious concerns. Dayes is still my #2 guy. "
We disagree. I'm OK with Chubb so far, and he's still being coached up. He's a much better back than Dayes IMO. Dayes is #4. If he were #2 we'd be in trouble. His closest competition is Dontrell Hilliard, he is not in the conversation with the Big 3.
Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion ... I just think it's dead wrong, that's why I jumped on it ... that's what we do here. If Dayes makes a key contribution to this team this year I will look you up and give you props. There's your branch.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I didn't put any words in your mouth, still working off of your original statement: "Off topic - Chubb. Not feeling his running style or vision so far. I have serious concerns. Dayes is still my #2 guy. "
We disagree. I'm OK with Chubb so far, and he's still being coached up. He's a much better back than Dayes IMO. Dayes is #4. If he were #2 we'd be in trouble. His closest competition is Dontrell Hilliard, he is not in the conversation with the Big 3.
Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion ... I just think it's dead wrong, that's why I jumped on it ... that's what we do here. If Dayes makes a key contribution to this team this year I will look you up and give you props. There's your branch.
Zombo
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well, Tiam, all that should be gleaned from your nonsense criteria of "better" is your fave is the second year player, with a 2.6 career average per carry, only a third down back with a lack of strength to break a tackle...
got that, Tiamsies? analyze that, bigshot. They are different players - Chubb is a powerful three down back, while Dayes is a third down back that lacks strength.
Read up on both players. They are different players.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/matt-dayes?id=2557987
Dayes has fine vision. Chubb has speed, agility, and serious power. They are different type of rb's.
Meanwhile, Tiam the Ham,
“To me, I don’t really feel like he’s a rookie,” running back Carlos Hyde said.
“Usually, rookies come in and be all kind of lost, just trying to feel their way out. I think Nick understands what’s going on. He understands what being a pro is, and he’s definitely been on top of the playbook, been on top of his game, so he’s been doing a pretty good job.”
Running back Duke Johnson Jr. added, “He’s old school. The way he carries himself, the way he dresses in practice, it drives me crazy. His helmet, his face mask, he doesn’t really wear gloves all the time. He’s in the wrong generation.”
Despite sharing carries with Sony Michel, who was selected by the New England Patriots late in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft, the 5-foot-10, 225-pound Chubb rushed for 4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs.
A native of Cedartown, Georgia, Chubb eclipsed the 200-carry and 1,000-yard marks in three of his four seasons “between the hedges,” and helped the Bulldogs reach the 2018 College Football Playoff National Championship Game despite having a freshman quarterback at the helm of the offense.
“I think Chubb’s a beast,” Hyde said. “He’s been doing a great job staying on top of the playbook, coming in. The way he finishes, everything about the kid is good. He’s just an overall player that’s going to come in, help us win and bring a lot to the team.”
Chubb began the 1,000-yard rushing campaigns with a career-high 1,547 yards and 14 touchdowns on 219 carries during his freshman season.
After being limited to just 747 yards on 92 carries in his sophomore year, Chubb punctuated his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,100-yard seasons.
Chubb rushed for 1,130 yards and eight scores on 224 carries in 2016, and finished his career with 1,345 yards and 15 touchdowns on 223 attempts last fall.
In addition to his rushing statistics, Chubb accounted for 359 yards and four touchdowns on 31 career receptions for the Bulldogs.
“He’s a workhorse,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “You saw him in college. He’s a guy, he’s not going to do too many shakes. He’s gonna make one cut and go downhill, try to run you over, maybe stiff-arm you, but he’s definitely a workhorse.”
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different types of players, Tiam. Your little Tiam critique is crapola.
I wonder how a rb can run for "4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs." with a "Tiamsies doesn't like Chubb's vision" goin on.
Furthermore,
Chubb - 53 yards and one touchdown on 11 carries against the Bills. That is just shy of 5 yards per carry.
For a rookie. In his second preseason game in the NFL.
“I think Chubb’s a beast,” Hyde said. “He’s been doing a great job staying on top of the playbook, coming in. The way he finishes, everything about the kid is good. He’s just an overall player that’s going to come in, help us win and bring a lot to the team.”
Chubb began the 1,000-yard rushing campaigns with a career-high 1,547 yards and 14 touchdowns on 219 carries during his freshman season.
After being limited to just 747 yards on 92 carries in his sophomore year, Chubb punctuated his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,100-yard seasons.
Chubb rushed for 1,130 yards and eight scores on 224 carries in 2016, and finished his career with 1,345 yards and 15 touchdowns on 223 attempts last fall.
In addition to his rushing statistics, Chubb accounted for 359 yards and four touchdowns on 31 career receptions for the Bulldogs.
“He’s a workhorse,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “You saw him in college. He’s a guy, he’s not going to do too many shakes. He’s gonna make one cut and go downhill, try to run you over, maybe stiff-arm you, but he’s definitely a workhorse.”
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different types of players, Tiam. Your little Tiam critique is crapola.
I wonder how a rb can run for "4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs." with a "Tiamsies doesn't like Chubb's vision" goin on.
Furthermore,
Chubb - 53 yards and one touchdown on 11 carries against the Bills. That is just shy of 5 yards per carry.
For a rookie. In his second preseason game in the NFL.
Well Cal, It sounds like you're saying its our offensive line, and if you are: I Agree. They're not blocking worth a dime and giving our RBs or WRs a chance. Hopefully when we get Zietler back for game 1, it will get better (and i'm pretty sure it will). It always seems like when we get all the right pieces on the team, our Oline goes south. Zietler, we will certainly welcome you back for game 1.
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Inferring it a good bit, sure.
I'm sure Georgia's oline was intact for at least a few years, this oline is makeshift, with the talent they have to mix and match.The first exhibition game, the running game was nil because the oline wasn't ready to click. Then the oline started to click, and the running game started to work.
Watching Chubb get downed for a loss trying to go wide reminded me of long ago - the squealers were on their way to the superbowl, and were playing a big game vs our Browns, who always played them tough. The great Franco Harris was their rb who kept trying the same rumbling wide and going out of bounds thing....except the Browns flattened him for a loss. I was impressed.
The offensive line wasn't getting the blocks done, and the Browns fought through and dumped Franco Harris into the turf for a nice loss. I've heard Jim Brown give credit to his offensive line.
One play Thurs night, in person, watching it - I think it was the ROG that got bullrushed like he was playing on one leg.
On one big sack, Duke went left to pick up a blocker, and on the next instant, the lb where he had been, took off and got to the qb through a wide open hole.
Missed assignment? just whiffed on the block? Confusion on the line? I don't know about all that stuff.
But Chubb is a real, very serious deal.
I mean, listen to what goofball Cowherd has to say:
I know Tiam knows a lot of stuff, but I've been watching the Browns since I was kid, and I"m retired now.
Nick Chubb is a powerful, still very agile rb. He doesn't run any 4.4. Sure. But he runs about a 4.52. And he's old school
kick butt running back. With all that, he is a powerhouse in the weight room. He's very serious business. Way too early to say he's rookie of the year, but a bit later, I hope we see the oline start to roll. We'll see. I hope Nick Chubb gets his first TD vs the squealers game one.
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Agree on Baker's play action... not foolin' folks right now. But to my eye he still looks less than completely comfortable under Center and comfort there has to come first.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Cool - So did Reggie Bush compared to Matt Forte'. What's your point here?
My point is that Chubb is a much, much better NFL RB prospect than Dayes.
Reggie Bush had over 9,000 yards in the NFL, I'd take that from Chubb ... So you think Dayes is Matt Forte?
What does that even mean? What scale?
It means if we cut Dayes on September 1st, there will be at least a dozen guys just as good or better available to pick up.
You need me to explain "NFL scale"? Sound it out.
I can tell you about a ton of former greats that had shitty players.
You think Chubbs is a shitty player? By watching a couple preseason games? OK.
I think he's an outstanding talent and our staff will get the most out of him.
Zombo
Zombo said:
My point is that Chubb is a much, much better NFL RB prospect than Dayes.
Reggie Bush had over 9,000 yards in the NFL, I'd take that from Chubb ... So you think Dayes is Matt Forte?
It means if we cut Dayes on September 1st, there will be at least a dozen guys just as good or better available to pick up.
You need me to explain "NFL scale"? Sound it out.
You think Chubbs is a shitty player? By watching a couple preseason games? OK.
I think he's an outstanding talent and our staff will get the most out of him.
Zombo
Too early to say much about any of the new guys Z- except Avery has a spot on the 53 man roster locked up.
Zombo said:
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
Agreed- the only way Dayes makes the roster is if we keep 4 RBs, and they see value in him on STs.
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Agree on Baker's play action... not foolin' folks right now. But to my eye he still looks less than completely comfortable under Center and comfort there has to come first.
Agree on Baker's play action... not foolin' folks right now. But to my eye he still looks less than completely comfortable under Center and comfort there has to come first.
He still Socks his stance and looks... pigeon toed at times. It's hard to describe. But the footwork from under center isn't second nature by any means and it's going to take quite a while before it is.
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oline looked like Sheet. Not impressed with ty. Happy with everthing else.
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Agree on Baker's play action... not foolin' folks right now. But to my eye he still looks less than completely comfortable under Center and comfort there has to come first.
He still Socks his stance and looks... pigeon toed at times. It's hard to describe. But the footwork from under center isn't second nature by any means and it's going to take quite a while before it is.
He still Socks his stance and looks... pigeon toed at times. It's hard to describe. But the footwork from under center isn't second nature by any means and it's going to take quite a while before it is.
In terms of the take a while and why - I've always felt Baker was most similar to Drew Brees (who just swung and missed at strike 3 prior to SD feeling compelled to draft a QB first overall after earning that with the worst record in the NFL). People constantly forget Drew Brees was a Philip Rivers holdout the length of training camp away from never getting the last chance to succeed. But he DID get that 4th season/chance to start and we know the happily ever after. Another thing that coincidentally happened was SD drafted C Nick Hardwick in 2004 out of the same alleged unconventional Purdue Offense looking to the shot gun formation that equipped the QB with better pre-snap vision/reads/peripheral than getting up under Center did. That was quietly HUGE because SD stopped trying to square peg a round hole and put why it helped Brees over ego of being right. Consequently, better pre-snap vision leads to better reads and quicker/more decisive throws. Method to the madness that height has no bearing on. Taller QBs have benefitted from the shot-gun formation too dating all the way back to the 6'3" Roger Staubach...
Anyway, I just thought I'd go find find some pre-draft scouting stuff about Brees and I found another guy who found him similar to Brees and most importantly - why. Just give it chance and it should make sense if you remembered why it wasn't cool to consider Brees for round 1 and why many put Baker into the same stereotype. I shortened it some...
Brees-Mayfield comparison gains strength with Scouting Combine Weigh-Ins
It’s starting to get uncanny.
By John Sigler Mar 1, 2018, 9:13am CST/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58864213/911125136.jpg.0.jpg)
I’m sure we’re all very tired of the cliched “Mayfield is the next Brees because they’re both short” takes, and I agree with that. The reason those arguments are so prevalent is because Brees was an extremely similar prospect to Mayfield when he entered the NFL. Just check out this scouting report on Brees from the archives at NFLDraftScout.com:
Positives...A good athlete with mobility. Finds a way to wiggle out of trouble and can take off running for first downs. Not a sprinter but can’t be ignored as a runner...Solid arm strength. Demonstrated on multiple occasions that he can cut it loose down the field with enough velocity to hit receivers in stride...Shows quickness to get the ball out fast. No extra time taken when having to get rid of it. Serves him well when pressure is in his face...Accuracy and ball placement show up even when he’s on the run. Does a good job of not forcing his receivers to constantly adjust to the football in flight...Doesn’t lack for toughness. Took some pretty nasty shots in some games and kept getting back up for more. Teammates will approve of that...Can deliver some camera-juking pump fakes, indicating he likely has big hands. That will explain how he’s able to deliver the ball so well.
Negatives...Has lived in the shotgun his entire college career. Played in a classic spread offense. No idea how to play under center or take drops...Lack of size is going to be a concern. Though not extremely short, he’s giving up vital inches that will make vision and healthy primary questions at the next level...Somewhat reckless at times with his decision-making. Will throw into tight coverages, trusting in his accuracy that will lead to interceptions in the NFL...Can have a bad tendency to hold the football trying to keep plays alive. Opens him up to frequent hits and also fumbling the football.
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I think it can be dangerous to be squeezed into such a small sample size in NFL history, not 20 or 10 but 3? And one didn't make it at all so two, well we'll see.....
- Drew Brees, Purdue Boilermakers
- Jake Kelchner, West Virginia Mountaineers
- Chase Daniel, Missouri Tigers
Kelchner wasn’t drafted out of college, though he did lead the Mountaineers to an undefeated 1993 season. He bounced between a few Arena League teams before looking to a career outside football.
As for the other two, it sure looks like Sean Payton has a type at quarterback. Brees is famous for producing at one of the highest levels ever despite his height disadvantage, and Daniel has stuck around for so long (despite stops with the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles) largely because he fits a mold similar to Brees. Mayfield has spoken about his height not being an issue in the past:........
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
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Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
He has an aversion to cookies. It’s clearly more serious than any of us thought it would be.
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Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
DeValve (quad) worked out on the side of practice Sunday, Nate Ulrich of The Akron Beacon Journal reports.
DeValve has yet to see the field in a preseason tilt due to his quad injury, but his work Sunday seems to indicate he's progressing in his recovery. He's likely competing for the final tight end spot on the active roster and will be hoping to show his worth in Thursday's preseason finale against the Lions.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-seth-devalve-working-towards-return/
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Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
the quad started the week before Zeitler quad went..they gave Seth a week & half off. Than practiced him lightly on a Wednesday going into a game thus.or fri.Seth was a gameday scratch. The upcoming Sunday at practice Seth made it thru stretch and lasted all of about 30 mins. of full speed 7on7 drills & they wrapped his quad again ever since.I have not trusted this medical team since Kwan Williams was sent to play with a fracture foot.But you know what's kinda weird? Hard Knocks left us with a picture of Gordon running this past Tuesday.That was recorded when the Bills were in town..Reports say he pulled it a few days before this Saturday after philly win..makes me wonder if we won't see Gordon pulling up training on hard knocks this week..
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I think it can be dangerous to be squeezed into such a small sample size in NFL history, not 20 or 10 but 3? And one didn't make it at all so two, well we'll see.....
- Drew Brees, Purdue Boilermakers
- Jake Kelchner, West Virginia Mountaineers
- Chase Daniel, Missouri Tigers
Kelchner wasn’t drafted out of college, though he did lead the Mountaineers to an undefeated 1993 season. He bounced between a few Arena League teams before looking to a career outside football.
As for the other two, it sure looks like Sean Payton has a type at quarterback. Brees is famous for producing at one of the highest levels ever despite his height disadvantage, and Daniel has stuck around for so long (despite stops with the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles) largely because he fits a mold similar to Brees. Mayfield has spoken about his height not being an issue in the past:........
I think it can be dangerous to be squeezed into such a small sample size in NFL history, not 20 or 10 but 3? And one didn't make it at all so two, well we'll see.....
- Drew Brees, Purdue Boilermakers
- Jake Kelchner, West Virginia Mountaineers
- Chase Daniel, Missouri Tigers
Kelchner wasn’t drafted out of college, though he did lead the Mountaineers to an undefeated 1993 season. He bounced between a few Arena League teams before looking to a career outside football.
As for the other two, it sure looks like Sean Payton has a type at quarterback. Brees is famous for producing at one of the highest levels ever despite his height disadvantage, and Daniel has stuck around for so long (despite stops with the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles) largely because he fits a mold similar to Brees. Mayfield has spoken about his height not being an issue in the past:........
I removed those parts of the article MJ to emphasize the pre-draft scouting report similarities between Brees and Mayfield (besides their height). Baker's positives and negatives are listed while there was a link to Brees' in the parts of the article I shared.
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Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Seth Devalve? He was supposed to be a weapon and I don't remember seeing him at all. I know he had a "thigh injury", but I didn't think it was supposed to be serious, yet I've never seen him on the field.
DeValve (quad) worked out on the side of practice Sunday, Nate Ulrich of The Akron Beacon Journal reports.
DeValve has yet to see the field in a preseason tilt due to his quad injury, but his work Sunday seems to indicate he's progressing in his recovery. He's likely competing for the final tight end spot on the active roster and will be hoping to show his worth in Thursday's preseason finale against the Lions.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-seth-devalve-working-towards-return/
Zombo said:
DeValve (quad) worked out on the side of practice Sunday, Nate Ulrich of The Akron Beacon Journal reports.
DeValve has yet to see the field in a preseason tilt due to his quad injury, but his work Sunday seems to indicate he's progressing in his recovery. He's likely competing for the final tight end spot on the active roster and will be hoping to show his worth in Thursday's preseason finale against the Lions.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-seth-devalve-working-towards-return/
I would not be surprised if Devalve is cut in favor of Cajuste. Devalve has always struggled with injury, and he's also not a John Dorsey guy. I don't believe that would be the RIGHT move, but it also wouldn't surprise me either.
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Zombo said:
DeValve (quad) worked out on the side of practice Sunday, Nate Ulrich of The Akron Beacon Journal reports.
DeValve has yet to see the field in a preseason tilt due to his quad injury, but his work Sunday seems to indicate he's progressing in his recovery. He's likely competing for the final tight end spot on the active roster and will be hoping to show his worth in Thursday's preseason finale against the Lions.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-seth-devalve-working-towards-return/
I would not be surprised if Devalve is cut in favor of Cajuste. Devalve has always struggled with injury, and he's also not a John Dorsey guy. I don't believe that would be the RIGHT move, but it also wouldn't surprise me either.
I would not be surprised if Devalve is cut in favor of Cajuste. Devalve has always struggled with injury, and he's also not a John Dorsey guy. I don't believe that would be the RIGHT move, but it also wouldn't surprise me either.
They can't cut DeValve! I think he is the only guy from Princeton that is playing in the league!!
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I would not be surprised if Devalve is cut in favor of Cajuste. Devalve has always struggled with injury, and he's also not a John Dorsey guy. I don't believe that would be the RIGHT move, but it also wouldn't surprise me either.
They can't cut DeValve! I think he is the only guy from Princeton that is playing in the league!!
They can't cut DeValve! I think he is the only guy from Princeton that is playing in the league!!
LOL, good point. I just know we haven't seen a lick of Devalve, and I'm not totally sure we're keeping him. I mean, I THINK we are, but Cajuste has value as a special teamer, and I'm not sure how Devalve stacks up in that aspect. Obviously Devalve is the better receiver, but availability is vital to ability. Hopefully he's out there in our final preseason game. Honestly, I really like Devalve and think he's got some real talent. Would we ever keep four TE's? I seriously doubt it. The final cuts are going to be VERY difficult this year, and I guess that's a good thing. There are going to be some pretty good players without jobs in Cleveland.
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