Inside the Browns front office, ESPN
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Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year.
This makes zero sense to me.
The Browns since returning to the NFL have had TWO winning seasons out of 20 seasons. One playoff appearance. There's been one ridiculous story out of the front office after another... (Phil Savage almost getting fired after one season, the whole George Kokinis/Eric Mangini debacle, homeless people choosing draft picks, and on and on and on). Seriously, the Browns were easily contention to being the worst professional sports franchise. Not worst NFL franchise, but worst sports franchise of the big four leagues.
How exactly should have Tony Grossi and Mary Kay Cabot paint such a picture? Should they have gone all Nathan Zegura and smiled and danced his way through such ineptitude?
"Hi, I'm Nathan Zegura, and I'm going to tell all of you why the Browns taking Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in Round 1 of the 2014 Draft actually wasn't the shit sandwich everyone thinks it was, on the next installment of 'Yeah the Browns Suck, But I'm Going to Wrap It Up In A Pretty Bow And Kiss The Browns Organization's Ass Browns Show'!"This makes zero sense to me.
The Browns since returning to the NFL have had TWO winning seasons out of 20 seasons. One playoff appearance. There's been one ridiculous story out of the front office after another... (Phil Savage almost getting fired after one season, the whole George Kokinis/Eric Mangini debacle, homeless people choosing draft picks, and on and on and on). Seriously, the Browns were easily contention to being the worst professional sports franchise. Not worst NFL franchise, but worst sports franchise of the big four leagues.
How exactly should have Tony Grossi and Mary Kay Cabot paint such a picture? Should they have gone all Nathan Zegura and smiled and danced his way through such ineptitude?
"Hi, I'm Nathan Zegura, and I'm going to tell all of you why the Browns taking Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in Round 1 of the 2014 Draft actually wasn't the shit sandwich everyone thinks it was, on the next installment of 'Yeah the Browns Suck, But I'm Going to Wrap It Up In A Pretty Bow And Kiss The Browns Organization's Ass Browns Show'!"You don't want it to make sense so you're painting Zegura out to be the media person that doesn't know what he's talking about while defending Mary Kay Cabot and Tony Grossi for repeatedly attacking new leaderships in Cleveland before their contract ink dries. AGAIN, Zegura pointed out that draft picks made from Sashi, Farmer and Banner (good or bad) weren't being made with nearly the same criteria, decision making process and majority of people Dorsey is using here in 2018 and 2019. That was his main message about the timing of it all reflecting toward 2018 and 2019 ahead instead of dwelling on the sins of 2013 and 2014 that have no pertinence moving forward. None. Weren't you just telling me you totally agree the timing of the article was strange?
When it is after the fact, I prefer a less biased agenda from sports writers like Pluto that give you an honest summary of both pros and cons rather than the convenient percentages of truth MKC and Grossi prefer to include in their summaries.
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I don't think the timing is odd. It is both a low season for the media (no FA yet; waiting for the SB) and maybe a turning point on Browns organization. We drafted some good young players (maybe a ROY) and acquired talent (I keep dreaming of Perryman becoming a #1WR), we fired a HC and an OC who didn't like each other and we hired as HC someone who almost no one knew about a year ago. This season we have been through a lot, and for once in a long time, we have a lot of things to be optimistic about.
This article shows a lot of mistakes that have been made, but also the will of an organization to keep trying to do things better. No one has given up. Now that we seem to have some of the key pieces in place - a logical reporting structure, a strong GM, a good quaterback, an owner who lets others do their job...- is time to turn that will into positive results, but never forgetting where did we come from, learning from our mistakes.
I don't see many getting the same positive message you got from the article Nero nor do I think the author wanted any readers getting all warm and fuzzy about Jimmy today. And for all the reasons you mentioned in your first paragraph - that's what made the timing of it all really strange as recent posts have mentioned... There was a tremendous need to make those already worried about Jimmy - even more worried or 1 step closer to Nurse Ratchid. It was like an alarm clock reminder to all the media in Cleveland along the lines of - "have you all forgotten venom sells before this Cinderella story in the 2nd half of 2018 reaches an inevitable early midnight?"
Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year.
I don't see many getting the same positive message you got from the article Nero nor do I think the author wanted any readers getting all warm and fuzzy about Jimmy today. And for all the reasons you mentioned in your first paragraph - that's what made the timing of it all really strange as recent posts have mentioned... There was a tremendous need to make those already worried about Jimmy - even more worried or 1 step closer to Nurse Ratchid. It was like an alarm clock reminder to all the media in Cleveland along the lines of - "have you all forgotten venom sells before this Cinderella story in the 2nd half of 2018 reaches an inevitable early midnight?"
Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year.
I don’t know about a positive message, but for a story detailing the many follies Haslam has committed l thought it did a fair job painting a balanced picture and humanizing him. Some positives l gleamed is he has a helluva work ethic, he at least attempts to surround himself and listen to qualified people, he’s not that boss that is so high and mighty he won’t talk to the janitor, and he wants to be the best NFL owner he can be and has a butning desire to build a winner.
Plenty of negatives too though. He’s a fickle bastard, doesn’t always listen to the people he hires to consult or listens to the wrong people, goes back on his word, and there’s definitely an element of disingenuousness and shadyness about him.
Quite frankly it seems he lucked into his present situation. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
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Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.
Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.
Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.
It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.
So don't fuck up, John...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Some nuggets
Hue asking why he’s being fired and then telling the.... TEAM OWNER, to “GTFO of my office” ???
Farmer turning down pick 33 for Brian Hoyer ??
Pettine was to blame for Gilbert. Haslam to blame for Johnny.
Haslam has clearly been the main problem to date. The only chance the Browns have of success is him having learned his lesson and staying away from Dorsey and Kitchens when it comes to football stuff.
I like Nathan Zagura's response best to the outdated article. Much of the panic attack is old news that the owner not only took on/accepted the blame for; but has self evaluated and attempted to learn from or that wouldn't be enthusiasm for this team everywhere but the Colin Cowherd types trying to make it off of outdated stories. Not to sound like the late Gilda Radnor but they're growing pains of a NEW NFL owner; unless anyone wants to pretend his "little itsy bitsy teeny tiny" minority ownership involved him sitting in the chair next to Rooney learning the business in Pittsburgh. New HCs get these growing pains too; especially when they take over a dumpster fire that hasn't been extinguished. It wasn't like Randy Lerner was an experienced/seasoned owner before he realized his inheritance was only burying this franchise deeper. If anyone thinks giving this franchise the CPR it needed after Lerner was going to be easy for the next brand new owner - I have some real estate for sale in Alligator Alley...
LB, I think where you and me tend to disconnect occasionally isn't in your passion for this team. You're a diehard and I like that. It's your timing of complaints. The first time I jumped all over you was the day after you started a thread complaining about a RB (Hyde) that ended up with 2 TDs and 98 yards rushing and a WR (Landry) that contributed 8 receptions for 103 yards in this team's first of 7 wins coming off an 0-16 season the year before.
If you didn't see tremendous progress in the direction of this team in 2018 - it's because you didn't want to. Obviously, there's still a lot more that needs to be done. But, this sure feels like we've taken our first big step forward which finally makes momentum seem far more conceivable. All of a sudden, we have a large core group of players that aren't dreaming about greener pastures elsewhere after their 1st season or 2 here. They're excited to be here for a refreshing change, which reflects way better about the current situation here than the meaningless Colin Cowherd wannabees are capable of. Not only that, but it's become a way better recruiting attraction for veteran FAs than it's ever been... All that being the case, the better time to panic was when Cleveland followed 1-15 with 0-16 than what many of the solutions to it have provided in the first time this franchise has only lost 8 games in over a decade. Yes, inexperience frequently leads to mistakes. The guy who wrote the article you seem to think is so wonderful here - just so happened to time it all when this team showed the type of progress reflecting a lot has been learned from previous mistakes.
People like to piss and moan about how negative the media in Cleveland likes to get at times; but fans celebrating the piece of shittt article this guy wrote only feeds their insatiable appetite to write what they think fans prefer to read. That can KILL a recruiting attraction for FA veterans here and has quite often in the past.
It wasn't like Randy Lerner was an experienced/seasoned owner before he realized his inheritance was only burying this franchise deeper.
At least he knew enough not to meddle.
Back when people wanted Lerner to sell the team I was like, It's the devil that you know vs the one you don't know. But people wanted an owner that would be more 'involved' with the team. Someone who cares more for the Browns than soccer. Meanwhile Lerner never held back any financial needs the team had, he just didn't hire the right guy(s). And for THAT sin he's got plenty of company.
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Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.
Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.
Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.
It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.
So don't fuck up, John...
Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.
Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.
Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.
It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.
So don't fuck up, John...
You meant "sell the team" regarding Hue...
We can only pray Jimmuh has learned form his mistakes.. What did Shottenheimer say back in the '80s? There's a gleam guys- go get the gleam....
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Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.
Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.
Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.
It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.
So don't fuck up, John...
You meant "sell the team" regarding Hue...
We can only pray Jimmuh has learned form his mistakes.. What did Shottenheimer say back in the '80s? There's a gleam guys- go get the gleam....
There's a gleam guys- go get the gleam....
And they all ran out and bought toothpaste...
Holy dated reference!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I finally read the article, answers a lot of questions ... most of which we figured out on our own here at The Browns Board.
Here is what the writer got wrong:
Haslam elevated defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to interim head coach and Kitchens to offensive coordinator. It looked like another wasted season, with the looming threat of another coaching search and another failed first-round quarterback on top of it.
For those of us that watched the team closely from week to week, never EVER to did Baker feel like a failed anything ... it was the exact opposite of that, we all felt the coaching staff was holding the offense back, Baker certainly wasn't.
When Jackson and Haley were fired the National Media was all "Here they go again, the Browns are such a joke" ... But, we the fans celebrated, because Dorsey now had full control and it is easy to see he knows what he is doing, and it was easy to see we nailed the QB pick.
That was when we were 2-6-1. So suck our collective dicks, national media.
Zombo
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You know, I really enjoyed reading this article and none of it was "shocking". The only thing I kinda reflected on about Haslam was the "why" on what he did before this year.
I consider myself a football dude, I'm sure most if not all of you do as well. What's very clear to me is ol' Jimmy felt the same way and made decisions thinking he was a football guy. In reflection, it's actually pretty hard for me to think I wouldn't have done that as well, given his position. I can't sit there and say I wouldn't have made some decisions as the "guy" that clashed with others. I know it's easy to note that's not what owners SHOULD do, but I can understand why he did. What's apparent though is that he realizes that wasn't the way to go. I'm sure he saw the dollar bills from having a team worth a shit (i.e. the december sell out game) and understood letting go caused that. With that being said, I can understand his early mistakes-can't say I wouldn't have made some of those myself.
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Don't worry my man - I'll try to find you before you appear on a milk carton.
Regardless of what you think of Zegura - that doesn't make an outsider that's focusing more on what happened in 2013 and 2014 as more pertinent to where the Browns are at today my type of go-to guy for updates and current events about this franchise.
Keep in mind, the same Seth Wickersham was writing about the Family Feud in NE (between Brady, Belichick and Kraft) that was destined to sink the ship. Now that NE is moving onto the SB from the ideal working relationships Brady, Belichick and Kraft had together - media suddenly can't stop telling us where Brady and Belichick currently rank with their accomplishments together.
If you swing from your asss and miss the way Wickersham did on NE, time to get that confidence back up attacking the Cleveland Browns. How impressive especially since he didn't time it for when this team was in the process of 1-31 football. Oh no, he waited until more than 365 days later when the enthusiasm of this fan base reached it's highest points since the inexplicable 7-4 start to the 2014 season.
I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.
Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though.
I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.
Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though.
Yeah, again my biggest and main beef from the time I entered the thread and responded to London Browns was the timing of the author. I've mentioned in this thread Jimmy made countless mistakes along the way enough to understand why people were worrying (myself included at times). Today, I'm pumped the franchise took a U-turn from chaos and confusion in 2018.
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I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.
Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though.
Yeah, again my biggest and main beef from the time I entered the thread and responded to London Browns was the timing of the author. I've mentioned in this thread Jimmy made countless mistakes along the way enough to understand why people were worrying (myself included at times). Today, I'm pumped the franchise took a U-turn from chaos and confusion in 2018.
Yeah, again my biggest and main beef from the time I entered the thread and responded to London Browns was the timing of the author. I've mentioned in this thread Jimmy made countless mistakes along the way enough to understand why people were worrying (myself included at times). Today, I'm pumped the franchise took a U-turn from chaos and confusion in 2018.
I don't think the timing is all that strange. The team has seemingly turned the corner and the author mentioned that. It's also about the slowest possible news week in the NFL year with nothing at all happening so it was the perfect time to drop a story like that on NFL fans starved for any sort of "news".
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Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QB Mayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
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Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QB Mayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
Zombo said:
It's a funny game!
...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make. We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.
The Rams are in the SB. Why? They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB. So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.
The Eagles won the SB. They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB. So they gladly traded with the dopes at #2 overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.
I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) Sashi asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching? - We were a bunch of hacks.
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As has been said, we are past that now. Haslam is taking a back seat to Dorsey, as far as football decisions go. And Dorsey is doing a good job improving the talent level for his new QB.
I'm reminded of coming out of the Derek Anderson ten win season....we were the trendy pick for the following season....Monday night games, 4 prime timers I think. I remember thinking, This could go awfully bad next year. I had absolutely no faith in Derek Anderson. I felt like we would be embarrassed on prime time. --- THIS YEAR, once again, we're the trendy pick. There's talk of us on prime time often. But I DO NOT have that Derek Anderson Sinking Feeling this time. I have a Baker Mayfield 'DANGEROUS' feeling. I have a, 'We can play with ANYBODY' feeling.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Zombo said:
It's a funny game!
...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make. We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.
The Rams are in the SB. Why? They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB. So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.
The Eagles won the SB. They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB. So they gladly traded with the dopes at #2 overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.
I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) Sashi asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching? - We were a bunch of hacks.
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As has been said, we are past that now. Haslam is taking a back seat to Dorsey, as far as football decisions go. And Dorsey is doing a good job improving the talent level for his new QB.
I'm reminded of coming out of the Derek Anderson ten win season....we were the trendy pick for the following season....Monday night games, 4 prime timers I think. I remember thinking, This could go awfully bad next year. I had absolutely no faith in Derek Anderson. I felt like we would be embarrassed on prime time. --- THIS YEAR, once again, we're the trendy pick. There's talk of us on prime time often. But I DO NOT have that Derek Anderson Sinking Feeling this time. I have a Baker Mayfield 'DANGEROUS' feeling. I have a, 'We can play with ANYBODY' feeling.
...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make. We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.
The Rams are in the SB. Why? They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB. So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.
The Eagles won the SB. They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB. So they gladly traded with the dopes with the 2nd overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.
I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) he asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching? - We were a bunch of hacks.
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As has been said, we are past that now. Haslam is taking a back seat to Dorsey as far as football decisions. And Dorsey is doing a good job improving the talent level for his new QB.
I'm reminded of coming out of the Derek Anderson ten win season....we were the trendy pick for the following season....Monday night games, 4 prime timers I think. I remember thinking, This could go awfully bad next year. I had absolutely no faith in Derek Anderson. I felt like we would be embarrassed on prime time. --- THIS YEAR, once again, we're the trendy pick again. There's talk of us on prime time often next year. But I DO NOT have that Derek Anderson Sinking Feeling this time. I have a Baker Mayfield 'DANGEROUS' feeling. I have a, 'We can play with ANYBODY' feeling.
I couldn't stand DA and I agree that the feeling about Baker is TOTALLY different in a very good way.
Mike
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Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QB Mayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
Zombo said:
Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QBMayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
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Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QB Mayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
Zombo said:
Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QBMayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
But even Sashimi had no clue (courtesy of an incompetent coach) would result in 0-16....
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1.) John Dorsey has added 4 players on roster by attaching draft picks. 2.) JD has traded 9 players adding draft picks. 3.) JD moved up once, & down once, last draft moving picks. 4.)Combining JD's time here & KC he has traded with 49'ers 5 times, 3 times with Zona & Bills, Twice with Jags & GB. Once with TB,Mia.,Skins & Car..They all sit above us at #17. 5.) Other teams that JD has build trading business with? Pats. 3 times, Vikings twice. Once TB,Dallas & Seattle. Most of these teams GM's are still around...We own 2 3th & 3 5th round picks...I'd expect more wheelin & dealing in the coming months.. set over/under of browns draft picks at draft of maybe 7 or 8?
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Zombo said:
Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QBMayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
There's some truth to this, but there's also the truth that one of his two drafts were pretty much a huge swing and a miss. (Sashi's second is looking much better.) The 2016 Draft was, sans Joe Schobert, mediocre to horrible.
The problem is, a complete rebuild sounds great in theory, but a lot of times the guys who endure it do not get to stick around to reap the benefits. That's a big reason the Browns struggled to fill the head coach gig when they started in 1999. Brian Billick is on record saying he didn't want to do all the hard work of working with an expansion team to only get fired and have it given to someone else.
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Zombo said:
It's a funny game!
...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make. We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.
The Rams are in the SB. Why? They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB. So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.
The Eagles won the SB. They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB. So they gladly traded with the dopes at #2 overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.
I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) Sashi asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching? - We were a bunch of hacks.
----------
As has been said, we are past that now. Haslam is taking a back seat to Dorsey, as far as football decisions go. And Dorsey is doing a good job improving the talent level for his new QB.
I'm reminded of coming out of the Derek Anderson ten win season....we were the trendy pick for the following season....Monday night games, 4 prime timers I think. I remember thinking, This could go awfully bad next year. I had absolutely no faith in Derek Anderson. I felt like we would be embarrassed on prime time. --- THIS YEAR, once again, we're the trendy pick. There's talk of us on prime time often. But I DO NOT have that Derek Anderson Sinking Feeling this time. I have a Baker Mayfield 'DANGEROUS' feeling. I have a, 'We can play with ANYBODY' feeling.
...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make. We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.
The Rams are in the SB. Why? They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB. So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.
The Eagles won the SB. They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB. So they gladly traded with the dopes at #2 overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.
I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) Sashi asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching? - We were a bunch of hacks.
I could swear that Foles won the SB for the Eagles and Goff was the QB we had atop our board. Guess my memory is bad.
And some people still do not understand Sashi's role. At this point it has to be willful. There's simply no other possibility...
As Z's "three top reasons"... Only Mahommes looks like the sure thing and precious few had him penciled in as that.
Watson stayed healthy this year but looked ordinary in many games... especially when the lights were brightest.
Trubs? Looks like Dilfer with wheels so far.
As a bonus I remind folks that Wentz is O-fer when it comes to seasons finished.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
There's some truth to this, but there's also the truth that one of his two drafts were pretty much a huge swing and a miss. (Sashi's second is looking much better.) The 2016 Draft was, sans Joe Schobert, mediocre to horrible.
The problem is, a complete rebuild sounds great in theory, but a lot of times the guys who endure it do not get to stick around to reap the benefits. That's a big reason the Browns struggled to fill the head coach gig when they started in 1999. Brian Billick is on record saying he didn't want to do all the hard work of working with an expansion team to only get fired and have it given to someone else.
There's some truth to this, but there's also the truth that one of his two drafts were pretty much a huge swing and a miss. (Sashi's second is looking much better.) The 2016 Draft was, sans Joe Schobert, mediocre to horrible.
The problem is, a complete rebuild sounds great in theory, but a lot of times the guys who endure it do not get to stick around to reap the benefits. That's a big reason the Browns struggled to fill the head coach gig when they started in 1999. Brian Billick is on record saying he didn't want to do all the hard work of working with an expansion team to only get fired and have it given to someone else.
Completely agree. I think that maybe had we drafted Goff and he would have sunk in the Browns (just like he did with Fischer at Rams), but getting Coleman instead of Michael Thomas is one of those things you keep remembering every time you watch the Saints.
He lost credit on the 2016 draft and then Hue didn't help him either. That's why I didn't like when they kept Hue: either you fired Jackson or both, but not only Sashi. Offense was awful and a blind squirrel could see it was because of bad coaching.
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Zombo said:
Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:
Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft franchise QBMayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!
Z
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
I am and always will be a believer that Sashi Brown got screwed in this whole thing. Don't get me wrong. John Dorsey is absolutely, 100% the right guy to run this team moving forward. However, this was all part of Sashi's plan to burn it to the ground, acquire picks, have very creative and well crafted contracts, and then build it back-up. Yes, they did not select the qb's above, but that was never in the cards. The long game was to acquire assets for the future. IMOP, Trubisky is WAAAAY overrated and should have never been a pro bowler, watson is very good but still struggles in the pocket and mahomes...yeah, he's special and there is nothing bad to say about him. Sashi brown never got the chance to fully execute his plan, and I personally, think that he should get more credit than he does. Dorsey has done a great job, but Sashi absolutely laid the groundwork. Haslam panicked as he does time and time again and never gave the full plan a chance. The browns failures are on Haslam alone for being a terrible owner and not listening to the smarter people in the game. This article painfully paints this picture. One only hopes Haslam actually read the article and had a come to Jesus meeting. Once again, Dorsey is the right man for the job and I have zero qualms about that...but just imagine what him and Sashi brown could have done together.
Damn you're smart...
Same sentiments here, but even I never had the thought in bold cross my mind. Even as big as I fear JD's ego is, Sashi just might have made their relationship work.
1.) John Dorsey has added 4 players on roster by attaching draft picks. 2.) JD has traded 9 players adding draft picks. 3.) JD moved up once, & down once, last draft moving picks. 4.)Combining JD's time here & KC he has traded with 49'ers 5 times, 3 times with Zona & Bills, Twice with Jags & GB. Once with TB,Mia.,Skins & Car..They all sit above us at #17. 5.) Other teams that JD has build trading business with? Pats. 3 times, Vikings twice. Once TB,Dallas & Seattle. Most of these teams GM's are still around...We own 2 3th & 3 5th round picks...I'd expect more wheelin & dealing in the coming months.. set over/under of browns draft picks at draft of maybe 7 or 8?
Good stuff here...
NFL GMs make up a small club where relationships are very important. His failure to grasp that was one of Sashi's flaws... quite possibly his biggest. I remember reports that other GMs began to dislike him because he tried to "win" every deal. Dorsey seems to have a "win-win" mentality that builds these relationships. Some of their difference is likely attributable to their differing levels of security in their jobs.
There's some truth to this, but there's also the truth that one of his two drafts were pretty much a huge swing and a miss. (Sashi's second is looking much better.) The 2016 Draft was, sans Joe Schobert, mediocre to horrible.
The problem is, a complete rebuild sounds great in theory, but a lot of times the guys who endure it do not get to stick around to reap the benefits. That's a big reason the Browns struggled to fill the head coach gig when they started in 1999. Brian Billick is on record saying he didn't want to do all the hard work of working with an expansion team to only get fired and have it given to someone else.
As I've said before allowances have to made for Sashi's first draft. There simply was not time to implement the revolutionary new FO approach Jimmah signed up for. Even at that you overlook Ogbah, Kindred, DeValve and, last but not least, Higgins, who finally showed his promise in 2018. Your oversights may not boost our 2016 Draft dramatically, but are more than enough to take "horrible" off the table with "good" in its place.
Billick was prescient wasn't he? From the outside he saw Jimmah's end game... ending a four-year plan after two years. I can practically hear Jimmah when he fired Sashi, "What can I say Sash... you fucked up... you trusted me."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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