Vernon traded to Browns In Exchange For Kevin Zeitler
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Well here is a novel thought. What about playing him at RDE, Ogbah stays at LDE and move Garrett into a DT spot right next to Ogujobi? There were multiple plays last year when Garrett switched to DT and was an absolute nightmare for the C & G, constantly splitting them and forcing early throws, stopped runs and even a sack/flush or two. Think about it. If Garrett is right next to Ogbah, don't you think the combined sack total and run stopping goes up between those two and Vernon combined that way?
Well here is a novel thought. What about playing him at RDE, Ogbah stays at LDE and move Garrett into a DT spot right next to Ogujobi? There were multiple plays last year when Garrett switched to DT and was an absolute nightmare for the C & G, constantly splitting them and forcing early throws, stopped runs and even a sack/flush or two. Think about it. If Garrett is right next to Ogbah, don't you think the combined sack total and run stopping goes up between those two and Vernon combined that way?
Nope. Sorry that's a horrible idea if ur a Myles garret fan. He can 5 tech on passing downs, absolutely. Expect some nascar packages with him sliding inside and Vernon and avery rushing the edges.
But as tia said, if u want him to do that full time ur gonna break him down. He's absolutely strong enough to take on ANY interior o line in football. But to mediate wear and tear he'd have to put on 20 to 30lbs. Than what? He's lost his freak athleticism.
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Well here is a novel thought. What about playing him at RDE, Ogbah stays at LDE and move Garrett into a DT spot right next to Ogujobi? There were multiple plays last year when Garrett switched to DT and was an absolute nightmare for the C & G, constantly splitting them and forcing early throws, stopped runs and even a sack/flush or two. Think about it. If Garrett is right next to Ogbah, don't you think the combined sack total and run stopping goes up between those two and Vernon combined that way?
Nope. Sorry that's a horrible idea if ur a Myles garret fan. He can 5 tech on passing downs, absolutely. Expect some nascar packages with him sliding inside and Vernon and avery rushing the edges.
But as tia said, if u want him to do that full time ur gonna break him down. He's absolutely strong enough to take on ANY interior o line in football. But to mediate wear and tear he'd have to put on 20 to 30lbs. Than what? He's lost his freak athleticism.
Nope. Sorry that's a horrible idea if ur a Myles garret fan. He can 5 tech on passing downs, absolutely. Expect some nascar packages with him sliding inside and Vernon and avery rushing the edges.
But as tia said, if u want him to do that full time ur gonna break him down. He's absolutely strong enough to take on ANY interior o line in football. But to mediate wear and tear he'd have to put on 20 to 30lbs. Than what? He's lost his freak athleticism.
Good points all. Best solution? Go buy Suh off the open market and move up ahead of Cincy for White in the draft. Now that would be a nightmare defense to deal with no matter the play.
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One final OV thought...
His $$$ contract fits perfectly at this time. After two years we'll be looking to lock up MG and extend Baker.
So unless OV balls out for the next two seasons... two full seasons... I think he's a two-year rental.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'll pull a Canton Mike here and say "We'll see".
I like adding talent in the Dline, but OV has been suffering injuries last two years and as someone said earlier he usually starts from RDE position, the same as Garrett. I'd be more comfortable if he usually played LDE so we would already know for sure that we could play him and MG at the same time.
I think that Corbett MUST be able to step up and play. Maybe not at Zeitler's level, but certainly at a good level considering the draft pick he was taken with. I like him playing as a guard and not waiting on him to learn how to play another position in the pros.
I hope we are not messing up the OL too much and we can improve rushing opposite QBs. Adding someone like Vernon in the DL rotation instantly adds some quality depth and I think both Garrett and Ogbah will use that.
And I prefer this instead of a huge firework-cap space nightmare FA signing.
I like adding talent in the Dline, but OV has been suffering injuries last two years and as someone said earlier he usually starts from RDE position, the same as Garrett. I'd be more comfortable if he usually played LDE so we would already know for sure that we could play him and MG at the same time.
I think that Corbett MUST be able to step up and play. Maybe not at Zeitler's level, but certainly at a good level considering the draft pick he was taken with. I like him playing as a guard and not waiting on him to learn how to play another position in the pros.
I hope we are not messing up the OL too much and we can improve rushing opposite QBs. Adding someone like Vernon in the DL rotation instantly adds some quality depth and I think both Garrett and Ogbah will use that.
And I prefer this instead of a huge firework-cap space nightmare FA signing.
Good post Nero.
Zeitler was a huge buffer to Hubbard's struggles IMO. Even that wasn't enough at the Tampa Game I attended where 3rd and goal from the 1 ended up getting stuffed both times we went behind Zeitler (not always his fault but it wasn't like he moved his guy off the ball either).
In robbing Peter to pay Paul, we got a pass rushing LBer (Olivier Vernon) who ranked 4th in QB pressures in 2018 (or the 2nd half of it). That doesn't suck considering we need someone beside Garrett and Ogunjobi to put some pressure on passers. You mentioned above he comes from the right side; but keep in mind Garrett had a 2 year issue with a high ankle sprain his last year at A&M and 1st year with us. That kind of injury has a tendency to keep it's victims vulnerable to re-occurrence.
While Corbett seems to be adjusting at the pace of Chad Thomas/park, I sure would feel a lot more comfortable if we went after a FA Guard like Roger Saffold (even though he played LG for the Rams). He's got the size to handle the run blocking at 6'5" 325 lbs while he has the pass pro reliability for the blind side of QB. As a former/has-been OG, I've played LG and RG without finding 1 more difficult than the other. I think it's an easier transition from 1 side to the other for Guards than it is for Tackles at the NFL level; but Kevin Shaffer would probably disagree since he rated much higher as a RT here than he did as a LT. He finished his career in Chicago as a backup OG.
We can also draft a Guard like the one Tour mentioned from Mizzou (hey, that's what I call my house). My biggest concern is Bitonio missed significant time to injury in back to back seasons 2-3 years ago while Tretter's last year in GB was spent on IR. If we lose 1 of these guys on top of our concern about RG - Baker Mayfield could end up feeling like that little kid on the raft in the movie Jaws or Andrew Luck before Quenton Nelson arrived.
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All potentially true Flugs, but we traded a position of perceived depth to add impact at another where we were thin...
This trade is a textbook "win-win" on paper.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
One final OV thought...
His $$$ contract fits perfectly at this time. After two years we'll be looking to lock up MG and extend Baker.
So unless OV balls out for the next two seasons... two full seasons... I think he's a two-year rental.
One final OV thought...
His $$$ contract fits perfectly at this time. After two years we'll be looking to lock up MG and extend Baker.
So unless OV balls out for the next two seasons... two full seasons... I think he's a two-year rental.
Denziel ward will need locking up too
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I like the trade.
I'll admit it, I don't know more about our players than do our coaches and Dorsey. I am comfortable feeling they feel we can fill Zeitlers role.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
After Bosa I don't see a starting DE in this draft class. Sweat, Ferguson, Gary are interesting but I am much more comfortable with Vernon starting across from Garrett than relyinging on them to produce. Guard is a very replaceable position unless you got a true mauler and zeitler wasn't. This draft is packed with players who can play G so this was a great move if Vernon stays healthy. We got a legit pass rusher on a 2 year deal who we can cut if he doesn't pan out.
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After Bosa I don't see a starting DE in this draft class. Sweat, Ferguson, Gary are interesting but I am much more comfortable with Vernon starting across from Garrett than relyinging on them to produce. Guard is a very replaceable position unless you got a true mauler and zeitler wasn't. This draft is packed with players who can play G so this was a great move if Vernon stays healthy. We got a legit pass rusher on a 2 year deal who we can cut if he doesn't pan out.
After Bosa I don't see a starting DE in this draft class. Sweat, Ferguson, Gary are interesting but I am much more comfortable with Vernon starting across from Garrett than relyinging on them to produce. Guard is a very replaceable position unless you got a true mauler and zeitler wasn't. This draft is packed with players who can play G so this was a great move if Vernon stays healthy. We got a legit pass rusher on a 2 year deal who we can cut if he doesn't pan out.
Offer the Colts our number 1 for Nelson
you wanted a mauler he is the best guard in past few years ...total beast
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After Bosa I don't see a starting DE in this draft class. Sweat, Ferguson, Gary are interesting but I am much more comfortable with Vernon starting across from Garrett than relyinging on them to produce. Guard is a very replaceable position unless you got a true mauler and zeitler wasn't. This draft is packed with players who can play G so this was a great move if Vernon stays healthy. We got a legit pass rusher on a 2 year deal who we can cut if he doesn't pan out.
Offer the Colts our number 1 for Nelson
you wanted a mauler he is the best guard in past few years ...total beast
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I like the trade.
I'll admit it, I don't know more about our players than do our coaches and Dorsey. I am comfortable feeling they feel we can fill Zeitlers role.
I like the trade.
I'll admit it, I don't know more about our players than do our coaches and Dorsey.
Nor do I Ballpeen. I LOVE the job Dorsey is doing at improving the roster talent. That doesn't mean I refuse to appreciate what Zeitler did here last year as close as he lined up to a very productive rookie QB while we had a rookie RB averaging 5.2 yards per carry. If you saw how inconsistent the RT Hubbard was next to him - anyone less than Zeitler or an inexperienced NFL Guard next to Hubbard could have been a disaster. There's a BIG reason we wanted Zeitler to come here; and it's the same reason the Giants wanted him badly today. All that said, I already posted we can still sign a proven veteran FA OG like Rodger Saffold; or we can draft someone; or we can hope Corbett has the same life changing moment Jed Clampett had before he shook up Beverly Hills.
The part of the trade that excites me more than our OG situation, was our front 7 needed more than just Ogunjobi and Garrett putting pressure on QBs. Vernon provides this.
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Dumb trade..
Zeitler is a stout lineman,We could of picked up a LBer in FA...
Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void..
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Brown's restructuring Vernon's deal making it more cap-friendly and front-loaded
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Dumb trade..
Zeitler is a stout lineman,We could of picked up a LBer in FA...
Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void..
Dumb trade..
Zeitler is a stout lineman,We could of picked up a LBer in FA...
Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void..
We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
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Dumb trade..
Zeitler is a stout lineman,We could of picked up a LBer in FA...
Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void..
We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others.
As far as cap issues, that is for Dorsey and the bean counters to work out.
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Dumb trade..
Zeitler is a stout lineman,We could of picked up a LBer in FA...
Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void..
We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
& that exactly what Dorsey said. He's not thinking just this year. Down the road is going to take big money to keep your homegrown talent.
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We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap.
We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others.
As far as cap issues, that is for Dorsey and the bean counters to work out.
We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others.
As far as cap issues, that is for Dorsey and the bean counters to work out.
I agree we could still pick up at linebacker as we released Collins. My point is is Vernon is going to be lining up at the end opposite of Garrett. That was a big need to address and to get a player of his stature at the opposite D end it would have taken longer than a two-year deal which is what Vernon is on and that will end right at the time that we need to re-sign Garrett. Giving us more freedom to do so.
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