Survey Tuesday AFCN and beyond

[The Gipper]

@hoorta said:

I'll leave the politics at one post... Being brainwashed is a POV Nickers.... Some would say there's none more brainwashed than the MAGAs.... Since you're into music, Tom Petty's estate told Trump to "Just back down, or we'll sue you around". For unauthorized use of that song during his rallys. The Stones have done the same with their music....   

Chrissie Hynde did the same with  My City is Gone....about....Akron, Ohio  to Rush Limbaugh.  However, from what I understand, the producers of that show wanted so much to keep that song as their signature song,  they they offered to pay a lot of money to do so,   which money, I understand, was immediately donated to "liberal causes"  that Limbaugh would hate.    So, maybe  Petty's estate and the Stones should do the same....ask for a huge payday to use those songs, and then donate the money to the Biden campaign.   That would be fresh. 

[The Gipper]

@hoorta said:

For shame Gipper- there's 4 preseason games that don't mean diddly. There well may not even be 4 preseason games...  I'm going to say either 2-3 or 3-2 in games that actually count...    

Doh!  you are absolutely right.  I wasn't even paying attention to the fact that preseason games were included there .   And I am going to agree with you on the 2-3 record. 

[The Gipper]

Here is a possible solution to the Steeler  backup QB  situation, since they didn't sign Newton:

Sign Colin Kaepernick

Put your Rooney Rule where your mouth is. 

[Icecube]

@vagitron said:

Gipper you are making it really hard for me to be nice. ?

Mark barron was not good, ever for the steelers. Edmunds may drop down into the box more and we have guys in the wings that I won't even mention because you will poo poo it. Big red was good on special teams but we brought in someone better in derrick watt. I only mentioned Nelson because you mentioned the loss of artie burns who had 1 relevant season for the steelers but you listed it as a loss. 

You keep mentioning dusty Springfield but you better be hoping big ben doesn't bounce back. It's always your m.o tho. I feel like you take zero of what anyone says into account the majority of the time and just insert your opinion as fact. The only reason the steelers werent a 10+ win team last year is qb play. As ice cube mentioned we get tuitt back who literally could not be blocked last year before injury. 

Vanett was a depth signing, Ebron is world's better. The Steelers didn't need to add anyone to make a deep run. Ben is back, players are healthy. 

Not only were they down to a 4th string QB last year, but their skill players units were decimated as well. If Ben is back, the only legit loss is Hargrave. But at this point, and all the craziness going on, it's a total guess on where they will be if we do have a season. Only safe bet is that Balt. will still be the lead dog in the north. I've never seen a 14-2 team add so much talent. It blows my mind.  

[The Gipper]

@icecube said:

Not only were they down to a 4th string QB last year, but their skill players units were decimated as well. If Ben is back, the only legit loss is Hargrave. But at this point, and all the craziness going on, it's a total guess on where they will be if we do have a season. Only safe bet is that Balt. will still be the lead dog in the north. I've never seen a 14-2 team add so much talent. It blows my mind.  

Well....it may be a safe bet that Crabburg will take the division....but by no means would I say it is a sure bet. 

And, as I said....they..the Steelers that is,  lost a main cog on their defense....so they have upgraded nowhere else (except probably with Ebron).  It ALL depends on BR being his 10 year ago self. 

[Vagitron]

@the-gipper said:

Well....it may be a safe bet that Crabburg will take the division....but by no means would I say it is a sure bet. 

And, as I said....they..the Steelers that is,  lost a main cog on their defense....so they have upgraded nowhere else (except probably with Ebron).  It ALL depends on BR being his 10 year ago self. 

Gipper we let Hargrave go because they like wormley. Our nose tackle is bookended by Heyward and Tuitt and Contrary to your imo suspect assessment (which is really no assessment at all) of Tuitt he was on a defensive player of the year pace before getting hurt. I won't be surprised in the least if our defense is the best in the league this season. (If they play and we don't get killed with injuries)
 

You are also once again reaaaaallllllllly sleeping on the steeler offense.  You keep mentioning talent added but there are only so many spots on the field and outside of the continued growth of Edmunds at SS there aren't many if any roster question marks in Pittsburgh. Ben is the wild card. Minkah Fitzpatrick has the tools to be a generational fs too. He was obviously our first rounder this past draft we just got him early but for whatever reason you ignore that as talent added because he played last year (at a really high level)

[Vagitron]

@the-gipper said:

Here is a possible solution to the Steeler  backup QB  situation, since they didn't sign Newton:

Sign Colin Kaepernick

Put your Rooney Rule where your mouth is. 

I'd be a-okay if they signed kaep. I just don't know what he still has on the field. His situation is also really unique and I believe he's said he won't play for vet min. If he said he would he probably would be signed already, at least on a trial basis. The Steelers like Rudolph. I'm not sold on the guy but I haven't given up on him either. 

[The Gipper]

@vagitron said:

Gipper we let Hargrave go because they like wormley. Our nose tackle is bookended by Heyward and Tuitt and Contrary to your imo suspect assessment (which is really no assessment at all) of Tuitt he was on a defensive player of the year pace before getting hurt. I won't be surprised in the least if our defense is the best in the league this season. (If they play and we don't get killed with injuries)

Tuitt played 6 games.   Had 3.5 sacks.  Again, about the same pace as his other 5 Non Pro Bowl years.  A good player. You ALWAYS have an overblown opinion of Steeler players.   
 

You are also once again reaaaaallllllllly sleeping on the steeler offense.

No, I am wide awake about the Steeler offense.  EVERYTHING depends on the return of BR to form. Browns have two RBs better than any the Steelers have.  Browns have 2 WRs better than anything the Steelers have.  Browns have two TEs better than anything the Steelers have.  Browns and Steelers OLs are now about on par.  You can also look at the Ravens set of skill players that are better than Pittsburghs.   I know that you were not asking for a comparison....but I am giving it to you....just to show that the Steelers offense is not all that and a bag of chips in comparison. 

 You keep mentioning talent added but there are only so many spots on the field and outside of the continued growth of Edmunds at SS there aren't many if any roster question marks in Pittsburgh.

Well, sure, OK,  you have your roster spots set.   Just because the spots are se does not mean that It is overall as good of a roster as the rest of the AFCN. 

Ben is the wild card.

He is more than that....He is the Ace, King, Queen, Jack  when it comes to any potential ability for the Steelers to compete for a playoff spot. 

Minkah Fitzpatrick has the tools to be a generational fs too

He is very good. Who said otherwise?  

. He was obviously our first rounder this past draft we just got him early but for whatever reason you ignore that as talent added because he played last year (at a really high level)

Again, so what?  He was still on your team last year.  You cannot tout a guy that was fully on your team last year and point that as an upgrade. It is NOT talent added over what you had last year.  He is a guy that fully contributed.   I get that one can say "we got so and so" back who was out for injury, like Tuitt.  I can give you that.  But then....the Browns had  Vernon out most of the year,  Ward out for stretches,  and, of course, Garrett missed 6 games.   And unlike Tuitt....these are guys that HAVE made a Pro Bowl...all in the year before their injuries (suspension)

[gumby73]

@vagitron said:

 The Steelers like Rudolph. I'm not sold on the guy but I haven't given up on him either. 

what's your thoughts on your OL after Munchak was released? and why the hell was he released? with Ben, I see 24 total sacks in 2018..Than, Ben counted for 2 sacks in 2019, but i see a increase to 32 sacks total in 2019..

[The Gipper]

@gumby73 said:

what's your thoughts on your OL after Munchak was released? and why the hell was he released? with Ben, I see 24 total sacks in 2018..Than, Ben counted for 2 sacks in 2019, but i see a increase to 32 sacks total in 2019..

Munchak may have been the best OL coach in the league.  But, to be fair to Pittsburgh,  Munchak was not "released"  by them.   His contract was up, and he was essentially a free agent and could sign a contract with anyone.  He chose not to stay in Pisstown, going to Denver instead.  Why?  Money maybe?    He says it was "family".    Here is a article quote:

Mike Munchak thought coaching the Steelers offensive line would be the place to finish out his life’s work until he retired.

And then came the chance to be with his family again in the same city, Denver, an opportunity he could not pass up.

“As my career shows, when I get somewhere, I stay there,’’ Munchak said during an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Tuesday afternoon. “When this opportunity came up to work in a city with my daughter, her husband, my granddaughter and my other daughter not far away in L.A., that’s what we wanted.

“I’m not 30 or 40 years old anymore. I’m 58 and different things become important as you age.”

So, I guess you take him at his word.  I had actually hoped the Browns would look at him for HC before the hired Ferd. 

[Icecube]

@the-gipper said:

Well....it may be a safe bet that Crabburg will take the division....but by no means would I say it is a sure bet. 

And, as I said....they..the Steelers that is,  lost a main cog on their defense....so they have upgraded nowhere else (except probably with Ebron).  It ALL depends on BR being his 10 year ago self. 

Hmmm, I think I see what Vag was talking about: You seem to make up stuff as you go. 

Upgraded nowhere? 

- Will begin the season with a Hall of Fame QB instead of an undrafted, 4th string rookie. No upgrade there. 

- Will have Conner and McFarland as upgrades to RB. Snell in 2nd year. (Incase you forgot, McFarland destroyed OSU's D while at MD). Now the Steelers have that guy.

- Will have JuJu and Claypool (6-6, 240, 4.42 speed) at WR. Johnson no longer a rookie, Washington came on strong with no QB last year. 

- Will have upgrade at LG, no matter who is the starter. 

- Upgrade at TE in Ebron. 

- Upgrade DE in Tuitt.

- Upgrade at ILB as Bush in his 2nd year, will be dominant. 

 Even if Ben goes down, Mason in 3rd year will be upgrade over the QBs of last year. If you want to "whistle past the graveyard," cool.

[The Gipper]

@icecube said:

Hmmm, I think I see what Vag was talking about: You seem to make up stuff as you go. 

I certainly  am NOT making shit up.  Though there may be shit coming out of your ears. 

Upgraded nowhere? 

By upgraded "nowhere" I was talking about bringing in  better FA talent than what they had on hand.   They didn't do that anywhere except at TE.

- Will begin the season with a Hall of Fame QB instead of an undrafted, 4th string rookie. No upgrade there. 

Hello, McFly, is anybody home?   Do you pay ONE  bit of attention to what I type?   I constantly have repeated that BR being back is the entire crux to that team competing. 

- Will have Conner and McFarland as upgrades to RB. Snell in 2nd year. (Incase you forgot, McFarland destroyed OSU's D while at MD). Now the Steelers have that guy.

Conner has been the starter  on that team for 2 years.  And by upgrade...I am talking veteran Free Agency,  not rookies.  EVERY team had a rookie draft.  Every rookie drafted could bring a potential upgrade.   I can claim, and probably would claim that all the rookies drafted by the Browns could be far better prospects than those signed by the STeelers.  Sure, a guy like McFarland could come and do well....but I will take having Kareem Hunt in full time over him.

Again, I am not saying rookies can't be good. And I asked Vag to tell us how that team's rookies could help, but for what we were doing here, like I said, we were not evaluating rookies. 

- Will have JuJu and Claypool (6-6, 240, 4.42 speed) at WR. Johnson no longer a rookie, Washington came on strong with no QB last year. 

Again...Claypool....rookie.  We don't know if Claypool will be any better than our rookie WR. And those other two are by no means proven to be beyond MOR. Smith in fact seemed to regress some. (maybe had to do with the QB.)

- Will have upgrade at LG, no matter who is the starter. 

Will they?  HOw so?  Not saying you are wrong...just asking you to defend your position

- Upgrade at TE in Ebron. 

We already agreed on that. 

- Upgrade DE in Tuitt.

Getting guys back from injury/suspension helps.....we have 4 guys in that situation. 

- Upgrade at ILB as Bush in his 2nd year, will be dominant. 

Maybe.  But he was a starter last year. Every player on every team is a year older and maybe more experienced.   We could say the same thing about  Wilson, Takitaki, Greedy, Redwine...yada yada yada.  

 Even if Ben goes down, Mason in 3rd year will be upgrade over the QBs of last year. If you want to "whistle past the graveyard," cool.

Uh, OK, maybe he will be better than last year.  Maybe.  FYI, I was high on him coming out of college, but I don't know how much support you will get here with that position. 

[gumby73]

@icecube said:

 Even if Ben goes down, Mason in 3rd year will be upgrade over the QBs of last year.

wait..what?    that cross eyed homo should be lucky the XFL folded...          

[Gorka]

@the-gipper said:

I looked at a half dozen sites like ESPN, Bleacher Report etc.  that all gave the division to the  Ratfuckers...and had the Browns and Steelers fighting it out for 2d place. 

We shall see....hopefully, if they play. 

On one of the national talk shows the other day it was pointed out that the Rats have both the easiest schedule and the least amount of travel time in the NFL.

At least in this division they won't have cakewalks like the Pats did for at least a decade, maybe longer.

[Icecube]

@gorka said:

On one of the national talk shows the other day it was pointed out that the Rats have both the easiest schedule and the least amount of travel time in the NFL.

At least in this division they won't have cakewalks like the Pats did for at least a decade, maybe longer.

Vegas win predictions are Bslt. 11.5, Pgh 9 and Browns at 8. That's about how I'd call it, with every team having the capability to win 2 less or 2 more. Balt. had 14 wins last year AND added some good talent; Dobbins and Duvernay were both steals. Plus adding Campbell on DL is just sick. He's a beast. Oh, and Queen at ILB. I'd favor Balt. to win AFC.  

[Dutch Oven]

It's kind of funny to consider how close John Harbaugh allegedly was to losing his job not all that long ago. 

Now the Ravens are considered the class of the AFC North.

[Vagitron]

@gumby73 said:

what's your thoughts on your OL after Munchak was released? and why the hell was he released? with Ben, I see 24 total sacks in 2018..Than, Ben counted for 2 sacks in 2019, but i see a increase to 32 sacks total in 2019..

Well the increase in sacks is because of Rudolph and duck under center and defenses pinning their ears back and going for broke. Munchak also wasn't released. He was going to resign with the steelers. The paperwork was drawn up but unsigned and according to Munchak and his nephew who posts on the steelers sub reddit when Denver called he signed with them because his daughter is in Colorado. He would otherwise still be on the steelers staff. The jury is still out on sarrett his replacement. It's not fair to judge him or the line for that matter with the massive inconsistency under center. Losing munch was a major blow no matter how you shake it tho. He's a legendary line coach. 

[Vagitron]

@icecube said:

Hmmm, I think I see what Vag was talking about: You seem to make up stuff as you go. 

Upgraded nowhere? 

- Will begin the season with a Hall of Fame QB instead of an undrafted, 4th string rookie. No upgrade there. 

- Will have Conner and McFarland as upgrades to RB. Snell in 2nd year. (Incase you forgot, McFarland destroyed OSU's D while at MD). Now the Steelers have that guy.

- Will have JuJu and Claypool (6-6, 240, 4.42 speed) at WR. Johnson no longer a rookie, Washington came on strong with no QB last year. 

- Will have upgrade at LG, no matter who is the starter. 

- Upgrade at TE in Ebron. 

- Upgrade DE in Tuitt.

- Upgrade at ILB as Bush in his 2nd year, will be dominant. 

 Even if Ben goes down, Mason in 3rd year will be upgrade over the QBs of last year. If you want to "whistle past the graveyard," cool.

It's just how gip puts it down when he's talking to me. I don't know if this is how he talks when taking the steelers with everyone or just when he talks to me. I'm turning over a new leaf and going to do my best to be civil but gipper has made it pretty clear on now countless occasions he doesn't watch a lot of division football unless it's the Browns. The Steelers have a very good roster and a team culture the Browns nor the Bengals possess. Hell not even the Ravens are on that same page despite how the Ravens draft (thank Ozzie Newsome)

We shall see what happens. We may not even have a season this year but old gip dawg has been underselling the steelers for as long as I've been on this board which goes back to I think 2004-2006 on a different name. They won two super bowls and went to a third in that frame. I still have a dollar bill in my wallet my buddy bet me as I don't like to gamble that the steelers wouldn't make the playoffs when they won xl because he was convinced they couldn't win with that line. I get it, hating the steelers is in the Cleveland DNA. 

Edit: I expect very little from Claypool this season. Diontae Johnson outside of juju is the one to watch. Washington will be good too. Diontae Johnson has the ability to be antonio brown 2.0. He had the best separation rate in the league last year. 

[Dutch Oven]

Alright Vagitron... I'd like for you to breakdown the Browns offseason and what you like and dislike about their roster.

I'll be interested to see your POV on the Browns.

[Vagitron]

@dutch-oven said:

Alright Vagitron... I'd like for you to breakdown the Browns offseason and what you like and dislike about their roster.

I'll be interested to see your POV on the Browns.

If I don't do it over the next couple days remind me with a dm or a bump in here.