Baker Mayfield
-
Vag the Magnanimous?
I'll take it... as you have a right to a different attytude...
Agree with your props to Baker for playing hurt, but my concerns go deeper. Somewhere along the line he's lost his edge... his fire... the chip on his shoulder.
I wrote this minutes ago in another thread in reply to OBJ leading a little sideline gathering...
This isn't going to be popular but ill say it... The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
Some will read this and be mad, real ones will read it and go "damn, you're right"
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
He might not have the latter at that... certainly has shown a hint of it lately.
But I'm not sure I agree with your take on the early antics... some were shoulder-chip related, some were "youthful exuberance", all were products of an attitude that I thought was real... and still do.
I just see the motivations that brought them out as being extinguished...
It's like how success destroyed every great Punk-rock band... terrible comp, but best I have ATM...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
He might not have the latter at that... certainly has shown a hint of it lately.
But I'm not sure I agree with your take on the early antics... some were shoulder-chip related, some were "youthful exuberance", all were products of an attitude that I thought was real... and still do.
I just see the motivations that brought them out as being extinguished...
It's like how success destroyed every great Punk-rock band... terrible comp, but best I have ATM...
-
Ya... but there might be three - four whole QB’s in the league that scare NFL defenses.... and Lamar ain’t doing it with his arm
And I don’t think Baker’s arm strength is really an issue.... when he is hitting passes 20-25 yards down field and you can hear it hit the WR’s hands on TV..
I don't care how a QB puts fear into an opposing team.
Baker doesn't scare anyone with his arm, or his accuracy, or his ability to read defenses, or his overall athletic ability.
He peaked during his rookie season. When teams got film on him, his weaknesses have been exposed.
I don't care how a QB puts fear into an opposing team.
Baker doesn't scare anyone with his arm, or his accuracy, or his ability to read defenses, or his overall athletic ability.
He peaked during his rookie season. When teams got film on him, his weaknesses have been exposed.
? If you don’t care how many NFL Qb’s scare other defenses then what is the point of bringing it up?
My point is... if there is about a total of 3 QB’s that can take over games with the list you put together.... how do these other teams win games and make playoffs? For the last 21 years they have had nothing that even resembles an NFL QB outside of Derek Anderson for about a 10 game stretch and the way people talk on this board, unless you end up with the next Patrick Mahomes (who has Andy Reid btw) you should just flip the whole thing upside down and live in the basement until you can draft one.
As a Browns fan, I’ll take a massive hard pass on flipping out a QB that broke the rookie TD record in 14 games, and is on pace to be one of three people in NFL history to throw for 3500 yards and 25+ TD’s in his first three season, With the offensive guru Hue Jackson and then Gregg Williams, and then Freddie “Moons Over My Hammy” Kitchens at the helm....so they can draft another maybe in the first round when they have glaring holes all over the place on defense.
The kid posts over 100 QBR’s and rips off four wins in a season after an abortion and now having a rookie head coach, and people all over this board Stomping their feet and bitching how we could have had Josh Allen, who I just watched miss open receivers by 5-10 yards with 122 yards then complaining how great Joe Burrow is with 6 TD’s in 6 games throwing the ball 60 times a game going 1-4-1...
I've been around This place since 2006 and there is possibly more sand in V’s now than there was the seasons they won 1 game in two years.... AND Ghoolie was still here
-
New wrinkle last couple of seasons is presnap motion changing the blocking assignments & run fits on the fly.
It's not just that a play is a run.. it's how the plays are designed. That's why Rams are getting an effective running game out of UDFA's at RB.
Could be that Stef's plays from the last few years are too predictable - need to include some of these ideas and overcome.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
Niners
Titans
Rams
Raiders
Window dressing aside pre-snap with run fit changes and such... You're absolutely dead wrong.
You're late though, I expected you to have this thread made by 6pm yesterday.
I'm still waiting on answers to my questions I proposed in your last thread. Then, as expected, you went MIA until the Browns lost. Nearly an entire month.
Pathetically fucking predictable.
You're not a Browns fan, you're a troll who can't answer questions with your own football I.Q. without standing on the shoulders of others. And you STILL can't give high level explanations on exactly what this team needs to do concept wise to ease Bakers passing struggles.
You're late though, I expected you to have this thread made by 6pm yesterday.
I'm still waiting on answers to my questions I proposed in your last thread. Then, as expected, you went MIA until the Browns lost. Nearly an entire month.
Pathetically fucking predictable.
I just scrolled through this thread just to find if someone else had already said this.
-
Our team literally is at pace to make the playoffs, and you guys are trying to write off Baker when his ribs are messed up, we're missing lineman, and he plays one off game against a 4-0 team.... Look at the entire season, not just one game. We have one of the most deadly rushing attacks, so his stats won't be 5 TDs 500 yards every week. Rodgers and other QB's have off games, and most of you are forgetting, it's only his third season. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre weren't the killing gunslingers until later on. Let the kid get his chance this year, I still believe in him.
Our team literally is at pace to make the playoffs, and you guys are trying to write off Baker when his ribs are messed up, we're missing lineman, and he plays one off game against a 4-0 team.... Look at the entire season, not just one game. We have one of the most deadly rushing attacks, so his stats won't be 5 TDs 500 yards every week. Rodgers and other QB's have off games, and most of you are forgetting, it's only his third season. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre weren't the killing gunslingers until later on. Let the kid get his chance this year, I still believe in him.
Long time no see...!
Guys, this was the one that said we should take Mayfield! Bring the torches!
-
New wrinkle last couple of seasons is presnap motion changing the blocking assignments & run fits on the fly.
It's not just that a play is a run.. it's how the plays are designed. That's why Rams are getting an effective running game out of UDFA's at RB.
Could be that Stef's plays from the last few years are too predictable - need to include some of these ideas and overcome.
New wrinkle last couple of seasons is presnap motion changing the blocking assignments & run fits on the fly.
It's not just that a play is a run.. it's how the plays are designed. That's why Rams are getting an effective running game out of UDFA's at RB.
Could be that Stef's plays from the last few years are too predictable - need to include some of these ideas and overcome.
I appreciate you linking that. The run fit/assignment changes from the motion is what i mentioned above. This brings actual video example of what I'm saying.
Thank you for the find.
-
The bottom line is Baker has to be better. Is it ALL his fault? Hell no. What's the biggest problem? Baker can't pass to the middle of the field. As a rookie, that's where he feasted. Past two years? He's so scared to even LOOK in the middle, because when he does, it's a pick. He isn't seeing the field and he's now terrified to throw picks so he's trying to live on the sidelines and that's impossible. I can write a thesis about this but I don't have the time.
Stefanski also got his ass kicked, and that's OK. He's a rookie and he probably feels like it. But if he can't fix Baker, and if he can't get Teller back on the field, we're in deep shit.
Oh yeah, and FUCK YOU Vernon.
I'm out. ?
-
for the browns to take the next step. The next step being rising to the top of the division, or at least alongside the top of the division with the steelers and Ravens. Right now the steelers and the ravens rightfully consider themselves rivals to each other and measure their success against each other. We are not part of that equation right now, and the steelers do not consider us relevant or a rival to them. The question is can they get there, and how do they get to that point.
So let's start with one key point- This is a passing league, has been for a long time, and the only way a team is going to get to the top of the mountain is with an uber efficient and successful passing game and/or an atypical running game(like Baltimore has founded on the qb running) which complements a successful passing attack(like Baltimore has). A team isn't going to have traditional running back handoffs as a foundation of offensive success in 2020, so let's throw that nonsense out right now.
So given that the browns have to throw the ball a bunch successfully to be successful against upper end competition, how do they get there? The reality is baker just has to play better.....but the browns could help him by using fewer 1st and 2nd down plays to run the ball.
In a hypothetical situation where a team has the league's worst qb, marginal recievers, and the league's best traditional running game(again to remove a team like baltimore from the equation).....throwing the football on first and second down is *still* going to be more efficient than running the ball. That's just the way it is. The likely 'break even point* for when running the ball on 1st and 2nd down equals the efficiency of the passing game would likely be 7.4-7.5 yards per carry when you consider the downsides of running(more holding penalties, fewer chunk plays leading directly to points) against the positives(eliminating the interception risk). Obviously no team is going to average 7 and a half yards per carry, but the other side of this is the browns don't have the league's worst qbs and certainly don't have marginal recievers.
So if the browns are going to take the next step, they are going to do so throwing the football a lot better than they are doing now.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation....
and remember, running the football successfully *DOES NOT* set up play action pass. This has been disproven in that we now know that play action passing is successful completely independently of running the football.
One way to increase the odds of doing that is fewer runs on 1st and 2nd down.....time and time again when baker struggles and the browns get thumped, when you go back and look at the game log on offense we see handoffs to the running backs which set up 2nd and 3rd and log. Converting more of those less efficient runs into first and second down play action passing is going to put Baker in a better situation...
We did this against the Colts in the first half with great success. Probably our best half of football. It can be done, but it can't be done against Pittsburgh. I don't know if you saw the game, but Baker had absolutely NO time. It was a joke. I'm not giving him a pass because that pick-6 was total bullshit, but his 2nd pick I don't care about. He tried to make a play after running for his life and we essentially didn't even have a first down. Pittsburgh plays with the same amount of players that everyone else does. Why couldn't we block them?
-
I don't care how a QB puts fear into an opposing team.
Baker doesn't scare anyone with his arm, or his accuracy, or his ability to read defenses, or his overall athletic ability.
He peaked during his rookie season. When teams got film on him, his weaknesses have been exposed.
? If you don’t care how many NFL Qb’s scare other defenses then what is the point of bringing it up?
My point is... if there is about a total of 3 QB’s that can take over games with the list you put together.... how do these other teams win games and make playoffs? For the last 21 years they have had nothing that even resembles an NFL QB outside of Derek Anderson for about a 10 game stretch and the way people talk on this board, unless you end up with the next Patrick Mahomes (who has Andy Reid btw) you should just flip the whole thing upside down and live in the basement until you can draft one.
As a Browns fan, I’ll take a massive hard pass on flipping out a QB that broke the rookie TD record in 14 games, and is on pace to be one of three people in NFL history to throw for 3500 yards and 25+ TD’s in his first three season, With the offensive guru Hue Jackson and then Gregg Williams, and then Freddie “Moons Over My Hammy” Kitchens at the helm....so they can draft another maybe in the first round when they have glaring holes all over the place on defense.
The kid posts over 100 QBR’s and rips off four wins in a season after an abortion and now having a rookie head coach, and people all over this board Stomping their feet and bitching how we could have had Josh Allen, who I just watched miss open receivers by 5-10 yards with 122 yards then complaining how great Joe Burrow is with 6 TD’s in 6 games throwing the ball 60 times a game going 1-4-1...
I've been around This place since 2006 and there is possibly more sand in V’s now than there was the seasons they won 1 game in two years.... AND Ghoolie was still here
? If you don’t care how many NFL Qb’s scare other defenses then what is the point of bringing it up?
I never said anything about "how many NFL QBs scare other defenses".
I said I don't care HOW other QBs scare defenses. You belittled Jackson by saying that he only scares defenses via his legs. Regardless of how, Jackson DOES scare opposing defenses.
There's nothing in Mayfield's game that puts fear in an opposing defense. In fact, he probably struck more fear in opposing defenses during his rookie season than he does now.
-
The antics Baker has shown previously - the flag plant, the slashing, the shit talk then silence into near cowering. That's shit fake tough guys do.
It's easy to be loud when things are right or at minimum even. When they aren't? That's when bravado should give way to grit. Baker might not have the latter.
He might not have the latter at that... certainly has shown a hint of it lately.
But I'm not sure I agree with your take on the early antics... some were shoulder-chip related, some were "youthful exuberance", all were products of an attitude that I thought was real... and still do.
I just see the motivations that brought them out as being extinguished...
It's like how success destroyed every great Punk-rock band... terrible comp, but best I have ATM...
He might not have the latter at that... certainly has shown a hint of it lately.
But I'm not sure I agree with your take on the early antics... some were shoulder-chip related, some were "youthful exuberance", all were products of an attitude that I thought was real... and still do.
I just see the motivations that brought them out as being extinguished...
It's like how success destroyed every great Punk-rock band... terrible comp, but best I have ATM...
I guess I see it differently. Bakers exuberance was more outwardly focused - as the examples I said above. Somebody like Farve was more 'inward'... for lack of a better term. I.E. you saw the kid just having fun with his teammates and friends.
I don't ever recall Brady ever starting some shit. But I'll be damned if he won't throw it back at you when you start it.
-
Burrows is better than Baker already?
Absolutely.
-
We're in trouble.
Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video.
No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw.
-
We're in trouble.
Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video.
No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw.
-
-
Man.... that’s a hot take.
“It’s a thin vail that Stephanski took his starting QB out of a blowout game who had a rib injury coming into the game to “protect” him. When it’s really him protecting his own job.”
Wtf does that even mean? Maybe.... He wants to keep his starting QB healthy because it’s week 6 and they are 4-2?
AND the Steelers are good this year based on Big Ben..... Ya.... it’s not their defense...
-
We're in trouble.
Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video.
No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw.
We're in trouble.
Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video.
No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw.
What's interesting about that tape is the amount of times I saw Pitt bluff one coverage pre-snap, then roll into cover 2 at the snap. Which is exactly what they did there and throughout the game.
Dan Orlovsky was obviously a pro QB and I'm positive he has more insight than me - Hell, I'd love to pick his brain. But on that stick/out you'd think Bakers eyes would, as I pointed out in the Baltimore game, notice the pre-snap tip to the field side/strength of the formation. That's Bud Dupree playing inbetween the #1 and #2 while Devin Bush is walked up over the B gap inside of Heyward.
WHY are you not looking to work that as your initial read? You have throwing windows based on leverage, positioning and route combination alone. Especially against an edge rusher who is more comfortable attacking and a 5'11 LB matched up on a 6'5 TE.
I'm noticing a trend where Baker tends to get in trouble and seems to lock his eyes at times - the boundary (short side) of the field. Why? Not entirely sure at the moment. I really need a week of vacation to go back and just pour through the last 6 weeks. Toss in the fact that I'm not sure he fully understands how to throw the ball to a larger receiver that can box out a defender with size and make contested catches. Either that or working the short game and 3 steps is just something he isn't comfortable with either. He certainly doesn't invoke memories of Brady dinking and dunking a defense to death at times.
-
We're in trouble.
Excellent film breakdown on why Baker is garbage at 4:06 in the video.
No one here is saying Baker had no time to throw.
What's interesting about that tape is the amount of times I saw Pitt bluff one coverage pre-snap, then roll into cover 2 at the snap. Which is exactly what they did there and throughout the game.
Dan Orlovsky was obviously a pro QB and I'm positive he has more insight than me - Hell, I'd love to pick his brain. But on that stick/out you'd think Bakers eyes would, as I pointed out in the Baltimore game, notice the pre-snap tip to the field side/strength of the formation. That's Bud Dupree playing inbetween the #1 and #2 while Devin Bush is walked up over the B gap inside of Heyward.
WHY are you not looking to work that as your initial read? You have throwing windows based on leverage, positioning and route combination alone. Especially against an edge rusher who is more comfortable attacking and a 5'11 LB matched up on a 6'5 TE.
I'm noticing a trend where Baker tends to get in trouble and seems to lock his eyes at times - the boundary (short side) of the field. Why? Not entirely sure at the moment. I really need a week of vacation to go back and just pour through the last 6 weeks. Toss in the fact that I'm not sure he fully understands how to throw the ball to a larger receiver that can box out a defender with size and make contested catches. Either that or working the short game and 3 steps is just something he isn't comfortable with either. He certainly doesn't invoke memories of Brady dinking and dunking a defense to death at times.
What's interesting about that tape is the amount of times I saw Pitt bluff one coverage pre-snap, then roll into cover 2 at the snap. Which is exactly what they did there and throughout the game.
Dan Orlovsky was obviously a pro QB and I'm positive he has more insight than me - Hell, I'd love to pick his brain. But on that stick/out you'd think Bakers eyes would, as I pointed out in the Baltimore game, notice the pre-snap tip to the field side/strength of the formation. That's Bud Dupree playing inbetween the #1 and #2 while Devin Bush is walked up over the B gap inside of Heyward.
WHY are you not looking to work that as your initial read? You have throwing windows based on leverage, positioning and route combination alone. Especially against an edge rusher who is more comfortable attacking and a 5'11 LB matched up on a 6'5 TE.
I'm noticing a trend where Baker tends to get in trouble and seems to lock his eyes at times - the boundary (short side) of the field. Why? Not entirely sure at the moment. I really need a week of vacation to go back and just pour through the last 6 weeks. Toss in the fact that I'm not sure he fully understands how to throw the ball to a larger receiver that can box out a defender with size and make contested catches. Either that or working the short game and 3 steps is just something he isn't comfortable with either. He certainly doesn't invoke memories of Brady dinking and dunking a defense to death at times.
Actually I think it's a brain lock thing. He gets the play in from the bench, makes the call and then does not have the ability to read what he sees while his brain "locks" into that primary receiver. That's what those other guys are brutally describing in the second video on that interception. How many times have we seen him go long when there are intermediate open receivers almost in the same sight line? But his brain is locked on that first one. He just can't "un-see" enough to go to the more open one who gets an easy 1st down. And defenders are easily reading how locked in his eyes are to go along with his brain. Then you watch the real pros who use those same eyes to look people off of where they really intend to go. Baker has not learned that part of the game. It's like he can only see about a third of the field on any one play and he just stays glued to it.
-
We are kind of screwed. Cuz we are trapped with baker at least this year (and maybe next). But so far it’s clear he is not improving at a noticeable pace
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login