Observations from today's game.
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I wouldn't blame him for that, he had a tough angle on that tackle to stop the back on a dime. He made a couple big pops early on in the initial drives. He doesn't shy away from contact and isn't one of those DB's that leaps on the pile hoping to get credit for a partial tackle. He has good feet and can blanket receivers at times. He may have struggled today because of the whole hand check officiating. Probably would have preferred to play in front of Graham and hold one of his hands/arms down like the recent years, but played behind him as to not give up any big plays. The Saints had to work for all their yardage today, it's not like we got torched for quick strikes and big plays.
Let Haden do his job, think it is still early to call him out in this differently officiated season for DB's.
I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He did start that game though.
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Haden shut down some of the best receivers in the NFL last year, some of the stuff being spoken about him in here is mind boggling.
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I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade.
With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that.
Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game.
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so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk?
DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call.
none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to.
so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk?
DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call.
none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to.
OUCH!
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Monday mornings suck. However Monday's after a Brownies win? They suck a little less.
Like said above, trying to stop a vertical threat TE on a stick or option route is damned hard. It's a high completion play and whats worse is that in this league, defenders can't be as physical as the offensive players are apparently being.
Trot out any CB onto Graham, Peterson, Revis, Sherman... none of them hold him in check when split out wide. Of course I didn't hear any of you bitching about Haden throwing a blanket on Cooks. That's the Saints second most dangerous player and he was silent when Joe was covering him. Speaking of secondary, can we give them some credit for making Colston a non-factor as well?
There are some major concerns I have with this defense. First being, where is Donte? I could swear we field 10 players at some points, the guy has been a great veteran presence, but aside from one awesome hit in the pre-season, not much else. Hoping that gets back on track soon. The next biggest being our front 3-4. They were owned all game. Big Phil and Rub especially. Desmond Bryant still needs time to get back to 100%, but he as well needs to give that pass rushing presence on the interior. Armonty had an awesome preseason and a couple good plays against Pittsburgh, but the rest has yet to translate to the regular season. I'm not too worried about him though, he's still a very young player.
The offense is ball control all the way. The lack of a vertical threat is a true handicap. However I"m more than happy with our pair of young running backs. West seems to grind out the tough yardage and Crowell is your home run threat. Great compliments to one another and as this team moves forward I think you'll see those two embrace that role. Their 'starting' spots within this offense will be interchangeable week in and week out depending on opponent. Aside from the sack taken, Hoyer didn't make any glarring mistakes. A couple errant throws, but nothing terrible. Its refreshing to see a QB that can take command of the huddle, and make a quick, safe decision with his passes. Get the skill positions set, such a Cameron healthy and Gordon back, then you have weapons who can go make plays for you.
This team has serious promise. That's what this game has shown, if anything. I still don't expect the world this season, but it is hard not to get excited about some of the results. Another influx of young talent, plus maintaining what we currently have and good things could be in store.
As it stands for the draft: I'll put my in depth thoughts on hold, but if I"m this front office, Leonard Williams is my primary target.
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You guys are so funny. Yall act like Brown and Graham are scrubs. Give me a guy who shuts down these dudes. I wait...
They're unstopable. Plus who are their qbs ? I mean give me a break.
What do you say when Joe shuts down AJ Green or whoever ? Please. Haden is elite. He just sometimes plays against instopable studs.
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Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade.
With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that.
Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game.
Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade.
With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that.
Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game.
I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks.
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That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO.
Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO.
I'll disagree here. I actually mainly attend the games just so I can see the DB/WR action. TV gives you the tunnel vision view only unless the ball is thrown downfield, but so much more is seen away from the ball.
It's like when Timmy Couch was here and all the yapper heads on here used an excuse that he had no one to throw to, yet those of us in attendance watch one receiver after another be ignored by the boy wonder. He couldn't see beyond the LB's.
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Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade.
With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that.
Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game.
I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks.
I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks.
Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end.
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I tend to agree with you. That's how I felt at the game. (I haven't watched the recording yet for 2nd looks however.) The trade off with double coverage on Graham means someone like Colston would see more passes, or their new WR Cooks.
Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end.
Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end.
Yes in hindsight I agree more coverage of Graham. Had we done so, this article wouldn't exist:
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Impressions......best crowd in the stadium in a long time, and the Browns fast start got the crowd in the the game right off the bat. Every time it started to look like the same old Browns and the fans sat on their hands, someone made a play and kept the momentum going. This is a team starting to put things together. They're not great by any means, but they're heading in the right direction and I saw some coaching during a game, which has been missing for many years. I can't wait to get back to the stadium this coming Sunday to see if they can keep progressing. Good times.
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Definitely true but I take our chances being weaker against the run/lesser WR than letting Graham beat you like that. It's the same model for me with any elite pass catcher, Megatron, Gronk, Green etc. Oh well, at least it didn't bite us in the end.
Yes in hindsight I agree more coverage of Graham. Had we done so, this article wouldn't exist:
Yes in hindsight I agree more coverage of Graham. Had we done so, this article wouldn't exist:
Dang that's crazy. I have him on my bench in fantasy football and I really thought recanting the game and seeing the goose egg he was hurt and I didn't see it before the game. The guy has always been solid but it seems like Brees has lost confidence in him.
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Grahm is 6'7 and no one in the league can cover him. Didn't Haden completely shut down AJ Green last year? I think the only receiver I can think of that normally dominates him is Brown. Thats one receiver out of all of them.
Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day.
The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him.
So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does.
Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB.
So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day..
Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day.
The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him.
So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does.
Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB.
So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day..
Well, riddle me this: the so called best CB in the entire league, Richard Sherman, was abused yesterday by Phillip Rivers and the Chargers. So, does his status drop down as well?
Face: rule changes, changes in ruled emphasis have put all DBs on the shit list of the NFL. They want the WRs essentially to be unencumbered when trying to catch the ball. This year there will probably be 5 WRs that will catch more balls for more yards than anyone has in the history of the NFL. Pinball football is the aim of the league. All DBs, even the best like Haden and Sherman, will suffer for it.
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Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day.
The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him.
So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does.
Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB.
So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day..
Well, riddle me this: the so called best CB in the entire league, Richard Sherman, was abused yesterday by Phillip Rivers and the Chargers. So, does his status drop down as well?
Face: rule changes, changes in ruled emphasis have put all DBs on the shit list of the NFL. They want the WRs essentially to be unencumbered when trying to catch the ball. This year there will probably be 5 WRs that will catch more balls for more yards than anyone has in the history of the NFL. Pinball football is the aim of the league. All DBs, even the best like Haden and Sherman, will suffer for it.
Well, riddle me this: the so called best CB in the entire league, Richard Sherman, was abused yesterday by Phillip Rivers and the Chargers. So, does his status drop down as well?
Face: rule changes, changes in ruled emphasis have put all DBs on the shit list of the NFL. They want the WRs essentially to be unencumbered when trying to catch the ball. This year there will probably be 5 WRs that will catch more balls for more yards than anyone has in the history of the NFL. Pinball football is the aim of the league. All DBs, even the best like Haden and Sherman, will suffer for it.
Agree. I'd love to hear who would take 5 CBs OVER Joe Haden, if they were drafting a team. Try it... Can you name 5 you'd rather have on your team?
Doubt it.
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You guys are so funny. Yall act like Brown and Graham are scrubs. Give me a guy who shuts down these dudes. I wait...
They're unstopable. Plus who are their qbs ? I mean give me a break.
What do you say when Joe shuts down AJ Green or whoever ? Please. Haden is elite. He just sometimes plays against instopable studs.
Haden is elite.
Joe Haden is not elite. He never has been. He's a good corner but not elite.
I love the guy because he's a Brown but farther from reality you could not be.
There were plays when Haden got burnt and HE WASN'T covering Graham. He got burned by Stills big time.
I really like Joe but his skills and ability are not as great as they are perceived to be by most Browns fans.
Haden has been out of position and often behind the receiver (Brown last week, Graham this week)
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Think of it this way: If Joe Haden got hurt yesterday and had to miss the rest of the season, how you feel about our defense's chance for success?
Z
Zombo said:
Think of it this way: If Joe Haden got hurt yesterday and had to miss the rest of the season, how you feel about our defense's chance for success?
Z
We'd be fucked Zombo.
Look my philosophy is this...
A secondary is only as good as the front 7 allows it to be.
If you give a QB all day to throw, you could have Darrell Fucking Green and Deion Sanders as your CB's and someone is catching the ball.
If you can't stop the run then the secondary almost becomes irrelevant.
I just think there are times Haden gets himself into a bad position and loses ground and get's beat.
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